The Criterion Collection

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by jw007

Hard to explain for me..maybe its the warrior-centric/samurai-weighted themes in most of his movies. I'm not a huge fan of samurai movies and emphasis on action-violence-morality tales and perhaps I'm the only one here, but this is the reason I can't get into Kurosawa.

Do you feel the same way about Meliville's gangster flicks or Sergio Leone's westerns? I don't see Kuroswa's films as being more moralistic than those (quite less in fact depending on the film, and less aspiring to artistic frou frou).

Good God, think of those those wonderful films suffocating inside those sealed cases, what did you get them for, living room decoration?

[jw007]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The majority of his movies aren't samurai / warrior themed. Even those that are, transcend the typical samurai action genre.

I encourage you to check out

The Bad Sleep Well
The Lower Depths
Ikiru
Drunken Angel
Stray Dog
High and Low
Scandal
One Wonderful Sunday


I think you'll get a deeper impression of his genius than what you have now.

Noted.

Originally Posted by jayembee

The samurai films are what he's best known for, but in actually, only about a third of his output is in that genre. My favorite of his films is Drunken Angel, which is in no way a samurai film. Of the ones released by Criterion on Blu-ray, try High and Low or Ikiru.

Thanks for the tips. I mentioned that High and Low is a movie I want to see (I have the Criterion blu-ray here still sealed). I'll check out Drunken Angel too...might borrow it from the library.

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The majority of his movies aren't samurai / warrior themed. Even those that are, transcend the typical samurai action genre.

I encourage you to check out

The Bad Sleep Well
The Lower Depths
Ikiru
Drunken Angel
Stray Dog
High and Low
Scandal
One Wonderful Sunday


I think you'll get a deeper impression of his genius than what you have now.

I would add Red Beard to that list, along with Ikiru and High and Low, one of the best I have seen, the only samurai film I really love of his as much as those is Seven Samurai so I am really curious to see all his other non-samurai ones.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

I would add Red Beard to that list, along with Ikiru and High and Low, one of the best I have seen, the only samurai film I really love of his as much as those is Seven Samurai so I am really curious to see all his other non-samurai ones.

A bit surprised no one has mentioned Rashomon. Do folks consider that a "samurai-themed" film? Although it includes a samurai character, I don't think I'd group it in that genre.

Rashomon was one of my first Criterions, and helped to kindle my appreciation for film as art, so it's probably my favorite Kurosawa of those I've seen so far.

[llj]

Originally Posted by mja345

Ray, I know it can be tough to sit down and watch films that you used to use strictly as "inspiration", if you know what I mean, but give it a try. I know it can be hard to compartmentalize. You did it with "Full Body Massage". Give "Showgirls" a shot.

I've read many defenses of Showgirls from "respectable" critics, but I don't think they've ever been as exaggeratedly "glowing" as Ray portrayed in his post. I've never seen a Showgirls fan claim Berkley was as good as Streep, or that the film was an inarguable masterpiece. Then again Ray has a penchant for exaggeration so I take it all with a grain of salt.

[nitin]

Kurosawa is my second favourite filmmaker and although I guess he is largely known for his samurai movies, I think he made many other greater ones that are not as popular.

One title that no one has mentioned so far that I also quite like is No Regrets For Our Youth from the eclipse box.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

A bit surprised no one has mentioned Rashomon. Do folks consider that a "samurai-themed" film? Although it includes a samurai character, I don't think I'd group it in that genre.

Rashomon was one of my first Criterions, and helped to kindle my appreciation for film as art, so it's probably my favorite Kurosawa of those I've seen so far.

It is and it isn't. I think if I was compiling a filmography of samurai films, I'd include it for completion's sake, but if someone decided to get into samurai films, and was asking me for recommendations, I wouldn't include it.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by jayembee

It is and it isn't. I think if I was compiling a filmography of samurai films, I'd include it for completion's sake, but if someone decided to get into samurai films, and was asking me for recommendations, I wouldn't include it.

I agree with that. It takes place during the same era of samurais, and does feature one, but it certainly isn't a "samurai film" in the typical sense. It does have the same frenetic pacing and jidaigeki styling at times as his samurai stuff, so it's possible that someone who isn't into those films, may not be into Rashomon either. It's a great movie, with an influential story structure, and excellent cinematography.

[bwdowiak]

Interesting how a movie can exist in your conciousness for so long and then somebody says something or you hear something and decide that "NOW is the time - I have to see this movie."

I've never had any real interest in seeing Showgirls until Ray's post. It seems that even its detractors think it is good for something - even if its only a laugh.

[llj]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Interesting how a movie can exist in your conciousness for so long and then somebody says something or you hear something and decide that "NOW is the time - I have to see this movie."

I've never had any real interest in seeing Showgirls until Ray's post. It seems that even its detractors think it is good for something - even if its only a laugh.

I think the fact that Paul Verhoeven has long proved himself to be a very clever and talented director should give him the benefit of the doubt as to how to view Showgirls.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Interesting how a movie can exist in your conciousness for so long and then somebody says something or you hear something and decide that "NOW is the time - I have to see this movie."

I've never had any real interest in seeing Showgirls until Ray's post. It seems that even its detractors think it is good for something - even if its only a laugh.

You need alcohol or something for Showgirls. But it's a blast.

And not really Criterion oriented, but I've had an interesting time reading this for the morning, and plan on digging in farther. It's a beautiful book that I got from the library, to check if it were something I wanted to buy. Natalie Wood was a beautiful woman, and she of course was in some films, especially Rebel Without a Cause and West Side Story, which we all remember.

If you can get this from your library, I would suggest it. It's beautiful.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Interesting how a movie can exist in your conciousness for so long and then somebody says something or you hear something and decide that "NOW is the time - I have to see this movie."

I've never had any real interest in seeing Showgirls until Ray's post. It seems that even its detractors think it is good for something - even if its only a laugh.

You know those old 1970s drive-in exploitation movies that are usually sold by Code Red or Scorpion Releasing?
Nashville Girl, Truck Stop Women, Hollywood Boulevard, etc.

Showgirls is just like those, except that it's a 1990s movie.

In other words, it's a bad movie in a general sense, but it's also a fun movie in a trashy drive-in sense.

[bwdowiak]

I watched McCabe & Mrs. Miller for the first time recently...

Kind of a strange film in that it really doesn't seem to be going anywhere for the first hour or so, but

[Show spoiler] then the second half of the film contains some great scenes - pretty much everything from the entrance of the horny cowboy onward.

About the beginning... I felt that McCabe is depicted differently in the first half of the film than he is in the second. You get the impression that he is some kind of badass. Perhaps that is fueled by the legend that all of the other characters seem to believe, but still... as a new audience, what else does one have to go by?

I wasn't knocked out by Julie Christie either. Altman is very concerned with establishing a living / breathing town, which is kind of cool, but it distracts from character development, including hers.

Interesting, too, that Ebert calls this a "perfect" film. I'm probably wrong, but I think he might have felt that way because of how the Leonard Cohen songs really elevate all else that is going on. Most of my "perfect" films all have great scores or soundtracks.

Perhaps too much criticism for a good film.

[bluesparrow]

Originally Posted by llj

I think the fact that Paul Verhoeven has long proved himself to be a very clever and talented director should give him the benefit of the doubt as to how to view Showgirls.

Verhoeven's Hollywood movies all seem to me to be intended as being half-parodies or outright tongue-in-cheek, and are best enjoyed with that in mind. With the exception of Hollow Man, which I think truly got away from him.

I've noticed the people that really despise his Hollywood movies are the ones who take them as serious movies, which is what happened when Showgirls came out. Viewed as a campy trashy comedy played straight, it's great. If you insist on viewing it as being intended as a serious slice-of-life look at the life of a dancer in Las Vegas, it's terrible.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Interesting, too, that Ebert calls this a "perfect" film. I'm probably wrong, but I think he might have felt that way because of how the Leonard Cohen songs really elevate all else that is going on. Most of my "perfect" films all have great scores or soundtracks.

I dunno, he details the reason to his claim with every paragraph that follows and it seems to have more to do with its melancholy and place than it does for Cohen.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Interesting how a movie can exist in your conciousness for so long and then somebody says something or you hear something and decide that "NOW is the time - I have to see this movie."

I've never had any real interest in seeing Showgirls until Ray's post. It seems that even its detractors think it is good for something - even if its only a laugh.

It's a very sensitive subject matter among the French beret-wearing, Cahiers du Cinema-reading, cineaste crowd.

...seeing as how my post was deleted.

The entire film is reputed to include hidden references to the Illuminati secret society.

I wouldn't even talk about it anymore if I was you.

It's too risky.

In fact...I've already said too much.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

I dunno, he details the reason to his claim with every paragraph that follows and it seems to have more to do with its melancholy and place than it does for Cohen.

I just find it interesting that he would choose to call this Altman film "perfect", but not others. I am a bigger film lover than I am a music lover, but there are songs that have such deep personal resonance with me; and for 4 minutes or so, I am moved every single time I hear OX4 by Ride or Fearless by Pink Floyd, for example. Maybe he connected w/ those Cohen songs in a special way. The melancholy vibe in McCabe is owed almost entirely, I'd argue, to the music.

The marriage of good music to moving images trumps just about anything else that cinema has to offer. For me, at least.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

It's a very sensitive subject matter among the French beret-wearing, Cahiers du Cinema-reading, cineaste crowd.

...seeing as how my post was deleted.

The entire film is reputed to include hidden references to the Illuminati secret society.

I wouldn't even talk about it anymore if I was you.

It's too risky.

In fact...I've already said too much.

Ray, go down to the nearest Best Buy to you. In the first row of blu rays, in the second section, there are two copies of "Showgirls". Pick up the second copy, which is behind the first. Go to the register and buy it. Inside the case, you will find a handwritten note. There are two addresses on it. Promptly drive to the first address. At the first address, a man will supply you with a gimp mask. Bring the gimp mask to the second address and put it on before you go in. The second address is where you will drive tonight at midnight. You will find that it is an address to a very large mansion. When you arrive at the mansion, punch in 4982 as the code at the gate. Park your car behind a black BMW adjacent to the first fountain you see. Walk to the mansion and ring the doorbell. I can't say anything further...

[senseabove]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I watched McCabe & Mrs. Miller for the first time recently...

Kind of a strange film in that it really doesn't seem to be going anywhere for the first hour or so, but

[Show spoiler] then the second half of the film contains some great scenes - pretty much everything from the entrance of the horny cowboy onward.

About the beginning... I felt that McCabe is depicted differently in the first half of the film than he is in the second. You get the impression that he is some kind of badass. Perhaps that is fueled by the legend that all of the other characters seem to believe, but still... as a new audience, what else does one have to go by?

I wasn't knocked out by Julie Christie either. Altman is very concerned with establishing a living / breathing town, which is kind of cool, but it distracts from character development, including hers.

Interesting, too, that Ebert calls this a "perfect" film. I'm probably wrong, but I think he might have felt that way because of how the Leonard Cohen songs really elevate all else that is going on. Most of my "perfect" films all have great scores or soundtracks.

Perhaps too much criticism for a good film.

I was really nonplussed by all the praise the first time I saw Mccabe, but a second viewing completely changed my mind. We'll see what a third viewing does, but on the second it went from being one of my least favorite Altman films to one of my top 5, maybe even top 3. Given, I still have a lot of his work to see, but I understood Ebert's and others' enthusiasm much more the second go-round. The meandering, seeming incidentalness of the first half takes on a lot more significance when you know how those relationships are going to develop, e.g. a lot of Rene Auberjonois's "asides" are more thematically relevant. And overall, the feel of what it means to encounter a stranger and how dangerous that can be in that society is much more present. The first time, they're all strangers to you, so things like Keith Carradine's arrival seem a little blown out of proportion, because they don't have the usual "dangerous intruder" clues (a la hawk-scream/western-flute-melody/ominous-low-angle-shot cues), but the second time, you get a little more of a sense of why everyone reacts the way they do, and just how legitimate the fear that wells up so frequently in the story is. And on repeat viewings, that fear, that sense of the precariousness of everything in this strange little world, suffuses the whole movie.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by mja345

Ray, go down to the nearest Best Buy to you. In the first row of blu rays, in the second section, there are two copies of "Showgirls". Pick up the second copy, which is behind the first. Go to the register and buy it. Inside the case, you will find a handwritten note. There are two addresses on it. Promptly drive to the first address. At the first address, a man will supply you with a gimp mask. Bring the gimp mask to the second address and put it on before you go in. The second address is where you will drive tonight at midnight. You will find that it is an address to a very large mansion. When you arrive at the mansion, punch in 4982 as the code at the gate. Park your car behind a black BMW adjacent to the first fountain you see. Walk to the mansion and ring the doorbell. I can't say anything further...

The secret lies with Charlotte.

[Show spoiler]