The Criterion Collection

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by Acer2010

When is Criterion going to announce their upcoming Blu-ray titles for February?

Well it is the 15th tomorrow so probably next Tuesday.

[nitin]

Coppola had 4 movies in the 70s that would probably make a lot of people's top 10 all time. The contest is already over at that point despite Coppola's very middling output ever since. Scorsese also has about 4 movies that would make most people's top 10 all time, but unlike Coppola he has many other films just below that level that still compare very well to the highs of most other filmmakers.

I very much enjoy De Palma's work because he clearly has a lot of directorial skill, but sometimes I admire the pieces more than the whole. I am also happy enough to admire and savor those pieces in an otherwise average film.

The comparison to Coppola and Scorsese in terms of output though I just cannot get my head around.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by nitin

The comparison to Coppola and Scorsese in terms of output though I just cannot get my head around.

Not just in terms of output. Style, sensibility etc.

They are linked mostly for being Italian Americans that were part of New Hollywood, but they are often compared in ways that make no sense to me.

[Hazel Motes]

Prediction:

Criterion releases Terrence Malick's Voyage of Time. Both cuts.

[Scottie]

Please, please, please give us Happy Together for Valentine's Day.

[CRM 114]

Originally Posted by Acer2010

When is Criterion going to announce their upcoming Blu-ray titles for February?

Possibly tomorrow but count on Thursday.

[mja345]

I think a great way to view filmmakers is to look at what you view as their top 10 films. I'll take five filmmakers. Scorsese, Coppola, Altman, Lumet, and De Palma.

Scorsese:
1. Taxi Driver
2. Raging Bull
3. Goodfellas
4. The King of Comedy
5. After Hours
6. Casino
7. The Last Temptation of Christ
8. Mean Streets
9. Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore
10. The Wolf of Wall Street

Coppola
1. The Godfather
2. Apocalypse Now
3. The Godfather Part 2
4. The Conversation
5. Dracula
6. Rumble Fish
7. You're a Big Boy Now
8. The Outsiders
9. The Godfather Part 3
10. Peggy Sue Got Married

Altman
1. McCabe and Mrs Miller
2. The Long Goodbye
3. Nashville
4. 3 Women
5. California Split
6. Images
7. Short Cuts
8. A Wedding
9. MASH
10. The Player

Lumet
1. Network
2. 12 Angry Men
3. Dog Day Afternoon
4. The Pawnbroker
5. Serpico
6. The Offence
7. The Hill
8. Prince of the City
9. The Verdict
10. Running on Empty

De Palma
1. Carlito's Way
2. Blow Out
3. Carrie
4. Dressed to Kill
5. Body Double
6. The Untouchables
7. Phantom of the Paradise
8. Casualties of War
9. Scarface
10. Hi, Mom

Coppola arguably has the best top 4 of the five directors. But his 5-10 are markedly worse than the 5-10 of the other four directors IMO. That's why I would choose Coppola as #5 out of the five filmmakers that I listed. To me, Coppola is similar to an athlete who has an incredible, short peak, but then fizzles out. That's just my take on it.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I think you're right about the De Palma / Coppola comparison. 70s Coppola is a maestro, but since then he's had a lot of stinkers and lots of films that aren't even enjoyable in a so bad they're good way (*cough* Jack *cough*). I recently watched Tetro for the first time (which I own by default as part of a set) and while not bad, I couldn't believe it was made by one of the most successful filmmakers of all time and not some novice mumblecore director.

Brian De Palma is a director who makes entertaining movies and he doesn't apologize for it. Like Hitchcock, he makes it obvious when he's pulling out items from his cinematic bag of tricks, and he doesn't shy away from lurid subject matter, so it makes for a much more interesting viewing experience.

"Jack" is the one movie that either of them made that no fan will step up to defend, but I would say that "The Godfather, Part III", "Jack", and "One From The Heart" vs. "Get To Know Your Rabbit", "Snake Eyes", and "Black Dahlia" is a pretty fair fight. (Although I'm not sure how much better "Boxcar Bertha", "New York, New York", and "Bringing Out the Dead" would be.)

EDIT: I just saw mja's post, so I might as well finish -- with Altman, definitely "Beyond Therapy", "O.C. & Stiggs", and "Ready to Wear". Lumet, I have to think for a bit, plus I'm still making my way through his deeper cuts, whereas the other ones are pretty settled at this point. "Just Tell Me What You Want" and "Garbo Talks" were both complete misfires, I'm gonna save the third slot because I'm sure there's one worse than "Power".

[Nicolawicz]

Altman and Lumet are pretty overrated, in my opinion. Especially Lumet. I'm not going to say "hack," but just a craftsman (like, say, Clint Eastwood).

[JoeBuck]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

"Jack" is the one movie that either of them made that no fan will step up to defend, but I would say that "The Godfather, Part III", "Jack", and "One From The Heart" vs. "Get To Know Your Rabbit", "Snake Eyes", and "Black Dahlia" is a pretty fair fight. (Although I'm not sure how much better "Boxcar Bertha", "New York, New York", and "Bringing Out the Dead" would be.)

EDIT: I just saw mja's post, so I might as well finish -- with Altman, definitely "Beyond Therapy", "O.C. & Stiggs", and "Ready to Wear". Lumet, I have to think for a bit, plus I'm still making my way through his deeper cuts, whereas the other ones are pretty settled at this point. "Just Tell Me What You Want" and "Garbo Talks" were both complete misfires, I'm gonna save the third slot because I'm sure there's one worse than "Power".

Considering the fact that Bringing Out the Dead is a GREAT movie, it would be a no contest fight there.

[thatguamguy]

Like I say, they all have their defenders. That said, Scorsese wins that one for sure, even Boxcar Bertha isn't out-and-out terrible.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Altman and Lumet are pretty overrated, in my opinion. Especially Lumet. I'm not going to say "hack," but just a craftsman (like, say, Clint Eastwood).

I think if you make enough great movies over a long enough period of time, it counts for something, although I agree that all three have strong hits and big misses. (I think Lumet and Altman both fail hard when they try to make straight comedies.)

[Doctor Jack]

Can say whatever you want about Coppola’s inconsistent career output, but he had the greatest 4 movie run in history. The Godfather, The Conversation, The Godfather Part 2, and Apocalypse Now. Can’t rwally think of any other director who made 4 of the greatest movies ever made, some would say greatest ever, in a row.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

I think if you make enough great movies over a long enough period of time, it counts for something, although I agree that all three have strong hits and big misses. (I think Lumet and Altman both fail hard when they try to make straight comedies.)

The more films you make over time, the less consistent your filmography is likely to be.

Directors like Dreyer who struggled to get their films made are probably better off in the long run, at least in terms of legacy. They weren't given as many chances to really screw up.

Studio directors are under more pressure to churn out product, which can make their filmographies appear a bit wonky over time.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Altman and Lumet are pretty overrated, in my opinion. Especially Lumet. I'm not going to say "hack," but just a craftsman (like, say, Clint Eastwood).

I disagree totally. Both were not afraid to stray outside of genres that were right in their wheelhouse and took a lot of chances. Both could have taken the safe route and gone 4-5 years between films and had a higher percentage of complete bullseyes, but they liked to work frequently and made some misfires. Eastwood isn't even close to Lumet as a director IMO, and that's not to shit on Clint's body of work because he's made many good films

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jack

Can say whatever you want about Coppola’s inconsistent career output, but he had the greatest 4 movie run in history. The Godfather, The Conversation, The Godfather Part 2, and Apocalypse Now. Can’t rwally think of any other director who made 4 of the greatest movies ever made, some would say greatest ever, in a row.

Kubrick, for instance (2001, A Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon and The Shining). And they're much better than Coppola's, in my opinion.

[thatguamguy]

It is great that we have artists who are financially able to only make exactly what they want to make on their own terms, but I also like the directors who have to work to make money, the ones who don't win every fight, who have to struggle to get the things that interest them into their movies. I sometimes wish that Malick had to make a studio action movie, just to see what it would look like.

[tallrichard]

Personally, I love some of both Altman's and Lumet's movies...and some I don't care for...

I love Hitchcock but he also made some movies I don't care for...Topaz? ICK!

To make a blanket statement about a individual's career is the true sign of a moron looking for a reaction...

[mja345]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

It is great that we have artists who are financially able to only make exactly what they want to make on their own terms, but I also like the directors who have to work to make money, the ones who don't win every fight, who have to struggle to get the things that interest them into their movies. I sometimes wish that Malick had to make a studio action movie, just to see what it would look like.

Exactly. Kubrick, for example, was a great filmmaker, but he was so choosy with his projects that his filmography is naturally going to look more pristine. He made 12 films over 44 year period. Filmmakers who made 30+ films are obviously going to have some misses, but it's enjoyable to look at some of those misses along with the major hits.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Altman and Lumet are pretty overrated, in my opinion. Especially Lumet. I'm not going to say "hack," but just a craftsman (like, say, Clint Eastwood).

I'm not an Altman fan so can't really speak to his filmography, but I certainly wouldn't call Lumet "overrated." I mean, 12 Angry Men alone would be enough to cement his reputation. I haven't seen all his output by any stretch, but films like The Offence (a personal favourite), The Hill, Fail Safe, Equus, plus the famous Pacino flicks, is quite a body work for a mere "craftsman" (which is sort of damning with faint praise like "journeyman"). There was a similar discussion about Richard Fleischer in the Twilight Time thread. Another great director like Lumet.