The Criterion Collection

[mja345]

Originally Posted by Hazel Motes

Have you even seen Youth Without Youth, Tetro or Twixt?

Tetro is a near masterpiece and Twixt and Youth Without Youth are both very good.

Also The Rain People and One From the Heart are both better than 7-10 on that list.

I have seen "One From the Heart", which I wasn't a fan of, and I thought "Twixt" was total shit to be honest. Haven't seen the other three, but have been meaning to watch "Tetro". I was just listing my personal top 10 of the ones I have seen.

But you're talking to a guy who really doesn't like much of Coppola's filmography that I've seen outside of his masterpieces. I'm not really that big of a fan of 5-10 on my list. That's just my personal opinion. Some obviously have a much higher opinion of his filmography outside of his big four films.

[thatguamguy]

I'm just glad to know other people appreciate "The Rain People".

[Rizor]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

As much as I hate to say it, the Le Samourai release is a bit of a disappointment.

I think it represents the absolute bare minimum that Criterion will invest in any upgrade.

The transfer is not a massive improvement over the dvd version--which may not be Criterion's fault, but never the less.

The artwork is unchanged. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I always thought the dvd art was pretty good, but hardly top tier in the Criterion catalogue. Not like, "Just keep the original cover art...it's perfect!" Certainly I'm of the opinion that a better design could've been made if the company was willing to take the time.

And finally the special features really signify how small of an investment the company was willing to make on this one. Basically just ported over the dvd features, which weren't that great imo. No commentary track...no new interviews. Did they even attempt to persuade Alain Delon to sit down for an hour?

I don't know if in our little geeky bubble here we were under the impression that this release had wider appeal than it really does.

...but this is a pretty half-assed effort by Mulvaney and Co.

Yeah, seems like a lazy release. Feels like one of their early Blu-ray releases. Just a port of the DVD. Dunno how they decide which titles to spend a bit more time on.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by mja345

[Show spoiler]I always thought this was a badass image from the film that would work as a cover. Kind of captures the essence of the character and the film.

And I definitely think we overestimate the popularity of "Le Samourai" to the public at large. Most people haven't even heard of "8 1/2" or "The 400 Blows", which are far more famous films than "Le Samourai".

You think more people have heard of Kwaidan?

...cause they put more resources into that release.

[Martin_31]

I think The Conformist perhaps did influence The Godfather. That’s all I’m saying since I’m typing on my phone.

[Hazel Motes]

I feel like somewhere along Coppola's career path the idea that he only made good movies in the 70's became ingrained in the public consciousness and just kind of got stuck there, regardless of the quality of anything he made pre 1970 or post 1980. Partly because his 70's output was so outstanding and partly because his films have mostly been financial failures and by virtue of that fact I think have been seen as artistic failures as well.

I have no problem agreeing that The Godfather, The Godfather Part 2 ,The Conversation and Apocalypse Now are his greatest achievements, but I think its unfair that they have been the measuring stick for everything else he's ever accomplished. The success of those 4 movies would be hard to duplicate for anyone. If they never existed and Coppola became a monk for those years I still think he'd have a career he could hang his hat on.

The Rain People, One From The Heart, The Outsiders, Rumble Fish, Dracula and Tetro are all excellent films.

While You're a Big Boy Now, Godfather III, The Rainmaker, Youth Without Youth and Twixt are also very good films in their own right.

When you actually go through his filmography, he's really only made a very few films that are really bad. Dementia 13, Finian's Rainbow, Jack. Even Cotton Club, Peggie Sue Got Married, Gardens of Stone and Tucker A Man and His Dreams aren't without charm.

I dunno, I think Coppola gets a bad rap.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

You think more people have heard of Kwaidan?

...cause they put more resources into that release.

No, not at all. But I do think it's a trend that Criterion isn't putting a ton of effort into most of their recent DVD to BD upgrades. Recent examples are "Jeanne Dielman", "The Friends of Eddie Coyle", "My Own Private Idaho", and "The Exterminating Angel". "Kwaidan" seems to be an exception for whatever reason. "Hopscotch" was probably one of the biggest upgrades recently because the DVD transfer was so poor. "Le Samourai" falls into the same boat as "Eddie Coyle" and "The Exterminating Angel" in that it's pretty much the same disc with an uptick in PQ. But I'm not really surprised that "Le Samourai" didn't get special treatment because its immense popularity in film circles belies the fact that it's really not well-known outside of them.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by Hazel Motes

I feel like somewhere along Coppola's career path the idea that he only made good movies in the 70's became ingrained in the public consciousness and just kind of got stuck there, regardless of the quality of anything he made pre 1970 or post 1980. Partly because his 70's output was so outstanding and partly because his films have mostly been financial failures and by virtue of that fact I think have been seen as artistic failures as well.

I have no problem agreeing that The Godfather, The Godfather Part 2 ,The Conversation and Apocalypse Now are his greatest achievements, but I think its unfair that they have been the measuring stick for everything else he's ever accomplished. The success of those 4 movies would be hard to duplicate for anyone. If they never existed and Coppola became a monk for those years I still think he'd have a career he could hang his hat on.

The Rain People, One From The Heart, The Outsiders, Rumble Fish, Dracula and Tetro are all excellent films.

While You're a Big Boy Now, Godfather III, The Rainmaker, Youth Without Youth and Twixt are also very good films in their own right.

When you actually go through his filmography, he's really only made a very few films that are really bad. Dementia 13, Finian's Rainbow, Jack. Even Cotton Club, Peggie Sue Got Married, Gardens of Stone and Tucker A Man and His Dreams aren't without charm.

I dunno, I think Coppola gets a bad rap.

Oh, I agree that Coppola has made very few films completely without merit. But there are just other filmmakers where I can go way deeper into their filmographies and find films that I genuinely love. I personally have never had that connection with Coppola's filmography. I definitely need to check out "The Rain People" and "Tetro" as they are two huge blind spots in what I've seen of his. And even "Twixt", which I didn't think much of, was fascinating despite the fact I didn't think it worked at all.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

As much as I hate to say it, the Le Samourai release is a bit of a disappointment.

I think it represents the absolute bare minimum that Criterion will invest in any upgrade.

The transfer is not a massive improvement over the dvd version--which may not be Criterion's fault, but never the less.

The artwork is unchanged. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I always thought the dvd art was pretty good, but hardly top tier in the Criterion catalogue. Not like, "Just keep the original cover art...it's perfect!" Certainly I'm of the opinion that a better design could've been made if the company was willing to take the time.

And finally the special features really signify how small of an investment the company was willing to make on this one. Basically just ported over the dvd features, which weren't that great imo. No commentary track...no new interviews. Did they even attempt to persuade Alain Delon to sit down for an hour?

I don't know if in our little geeky bubble here we were under the impression that this release had wider appeal than it really does.

...but this is a pretty half-assed effort by Mulvaney and Co.

Well, that's kinda what happens when people clamor for a release for years and it's not really ready to come out. The new master wasn't up to par, so Criterion had no choice but to basically "upgrade' their old version. Makes sense why they wouldn't waste more money on new covers and supplements, since they couldn't use the new master and create a "new" package.

[20th Century Boy]

Depalma has made some fantastic films. That said I find The Untouchables to easily be one of the worst films I've ever seen. Absolutely NOTHING in that film works for me. Nothing.

[zakzak]

Originally Posted by 20th Century Boy

Depalma has made some fantastic films. That said I find The Untouchables to easily be one of the worst films I've ever seen. Absolutely NOTHING in that film works for me. Nothing.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by 20th Century Boy

Depalma has made some fantastic films. That said I find The Untouchables to easily be one of the worst films I've ever seen. Absolutely NOTHING in that film works for me. Nothing.

I dunno. That baseball bat seemed to work pretty well. Did what it was supposed to do anyway.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

I'm just glad to know other people appreciate "The Rain People".

It would be nice if Coppola got the rights back from Warner and released it on blu-ray with the making of doco he made with Lucas when they were young and unknown.

We can only dream.

[theater dreamer]

Interesting. I absolutely love The Untouchables.




And if we're talking about four great films in a row, how about the start of Peter Bogdanovich's career?

Targets (I have not yet seen this, basing its inclusion on reputation alone)
The Last Picture Show
What's Up, Doc?
Paper Moon

Few directors have come out of the gates like that. Unfortunately, much like Francis Ford Coppola, his later works have been highly inconsistent, though I loved Mask when I was a kid, and They All Laughed is a highly underrated homage to the screwball comedy.

Originally Posted by 20th Century Boy

Depalma has made some fantastic films. That said I find The Untouchables to easily be one of the worst films I've ever seen. Absolutely NOTHING in that film works for me. Nothing.

[theater dreamer]

Yes, really.

Why is that so hard to believe? My top five for each director is based on two things-the film's overall greatness, and my personal enjoyment.

A director like Scorsese, I look at some of his films like Raging Bull and Taxi Driver, for example. Two of the greatest ever made, and Raging Bull has been called the best film of the 1980s. That would be very difficult to dispute. It's a masterful work of direction.

Is Casino as good? Of course not. But would I rather sit down and watch it again over Raging Bull? Yes; I find it to be a more enjoyable film. That's just my personal taste.

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

c'mon, really?

[mja345]

Bogdanovich's run is very underrated. "Saint Jack" is a personal favorite of mine. Another guy who is massively underrated is Arthur Penn. He had a run of "The Left Handed Gun", "The Miracle Worker", "Mickey One", "The Chase", "Bonnie and Clyde", "Alice's Restaurant", "Little Big Man", "Night Moves", and "The Missouri Breaks". While "Bonnie and Clyde", "Little Big Man", "Night Moves", and "The Miracle Worker" are generally acknowledged as great films, his other films are a bit polarizing. But I come out on the positive end of all of them. "Mickey One" and "The Missouri Breaks" are both fantastic films IMO. "Alice's Restaurant" may have captured the late 60s-early 70s zeitgeist better than any film of that era, including "Easy Rider". And "The Chase", while certainly melodramatic, is undeniably fascinating.

Another director from the 60s and 70s who is often overlooked is George Roy Hill. I think some of it has to do with the fact that some of his best films are more connected with Newman and Redford, but I see the kind of casual, idiosyncratic, shoot-the-shit humor that was prevalent in many of his films to be heavily influential on many modern filmmakers.

[theater dreamer]

Actually, Godard didn't do too poorly out of the gates, either.

À bout de souffle (Breathless; his first feature-length film. Are you kidding me??)
Une femme est une femme (A Woman is a Woman)
Vivre sa vie (My Life to Live)
Le Petit Soldat

But in all fairness, he had a secret formula: make a great debut, and then stick Anna Karina in everything after. Victory!!

[theater dreamer]

I'm ashamed to admit I've yet to see Saint Jack. The problem with building knowledge of film history is that there are so many great directors who've made so many great films; it's just impossible to see all of them at once. I'm watching 1-2 greats every day, and feeling like I can't get through them fast enough. It's daunting, but highly enjoyable work.

I'll see your Arthur Penn, and raise you a David Lean. How about this run of four films?

Summertime
The Bridge on the River Kwai
Lawrence of Arabia
Doctor Zhivago

I'll take the Taster's Choice test against any other director's four, thank you. That's just a brilliant run, and doesn't even include some other fantastic films; Great Expectations, Brief Encounter, Oliver Twist...

Originally Posted by mja345

Bogdanovich's run is very underrated. "Saint Jack" is a personal favorite of mine. Another guy who is massively underrated is Arthur Penn. He had a run of "The Left Handed Gun", "The Miracle Worker", "Mickey One", "The Chase", "Bonnie and Clyde", "Alice's Restaurant", "Little Big Man", "Night Moves", and "The Missouri Breaks". While "Bonnie and Clyde", "Little Big Man", "Night Moves", and "The Miracle Worker" are generally acknowledged as great films, his other films are a bit polarizing. But I come out on the positive end of all of them. "Mickey One" and "The Missouri Breaks" are both fantastic films IMO. "Alice's Restaurant" may have captured the late 60s-early 70s zeitgeist better than any film of that era, including "Easy Rider". And "The Chase", while certainly melodramatic, is undeniably fascinating.

Another director from the 60s and 70s who is often overlooked is George Roy Hill. I think some of it has to do with the fact that some of his best films are more connected with Newman and Redford, but I see the kind of casual, idiosyncratic, shoot-the-shit humor that was prevalent in many of his films to be heavily influential on many modern filmmakers.

[Hazel Motes]

If we're really going to talk about directors that went on great runs, just about every film Akira Kurosawa made from 1948 until his retirement in 1993 was a masterpiece or near masterpiece. We're talking 20+ films.

[mrjohnnyb]

Due to the start of his long career, I think a lot of cinephiles tend to list John Huston in a different generation. While his greatest films come before the 1970's (The Maltese Falcon, The Asphalt Jungle, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, and The African Queen,) he does have a substantial post-1960's oeuvre:

The Dead
Fat City
The Man Who Would Be King
Under the Volcano
Wise Blood
The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean
Prizzi's Honor