The Criterion Collection

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by BunyipPouch

Yeah it's super annoying that some people are now spreading it as a 100% fact. It first started as a random leak that may or not be true, only a couple of people have even seen the "proof" and no one can confirm or deny anything. Now it's become:

"They're going 4K in December or 2022, it's already been leaked."

Shows how fast misinformation spreads. I'm sure the yolo guy has good intentions and isn't lying about what he knows, he seems honest, but it's far from anything being confirmed.

I mean, no one should ever assume that any rumor is a sure thing. Even sure things aren’t necessarily sure things - plans change. I mean, I was supposed to have that beautiful, *officially announced* Criterion BD of Ran in my hands more than a decade ago and then, well, whoopsie.

That said, with Yolo and especially the quite reliable Bill Hunt hinting at it, I’d say it’s more likely than not. I think we even have a decent idea of at least one of the titles in the possible pipeline. But no one should state this as anything near a certainty. Too much can happen.

[BaronVH]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Why would it limit their ability to acquire future films? It's not a move that implies every future title wil be UHD.

Because they cost more to put out there and people buy less of them. Something has to give somewhere. They will either have to charge more for them, and there will be a pricing solution for that, or they will have to cut back elsewhere. Maybe I am wrong and magic gnomes make all of these disks while everyone sleeps.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

Because they cost more to put out there and people buy less of them. Something has to give somewhere. They will either have to charge more for them, and there will be a pricing solution for that, or they will have to cut back elsewhere. Maybe I am wrong and magic gnomes make all of these disks while everyone sleeps.

That’s why I really think that the BD editions will become dual BD/UHD editions. As they said before when they tried to combine the DVD and BD lines, the biggest part of the expense of disc publishing is the packaging. This path would help mitigate that cost.

[Mose Harper]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

blind buying Criterions is my favorite pass time Criterion has introduced me to so many great films I would've never gotten to see, so ill gladly shell out for a blind buy. I generally trust them with that. Even if sometimes its a film I don't particularly like I can still appreciate owning it. I can't really say there's ever been a blind buy from Criterion that Ive hated but one I didn't care too much for that comes to mind is Secret Sunshine. Maybe I need to give it a rewatch cause I love Korean films and the actors in this film, maybe I just wasn't in the right frame of mind when I watched it years ago, regardless I didn't hate it to the point id want to sell my copy. What are some blind buys you guys were let down by?

The last couple things I watched were the first episode of Theater Macabre and Challenge the Devil from the Chris Lee Eurocrypt set.
Both were...arduous.

I'm now feeling a lot more bearish towards any new blind buys

[regeyer]

Imagine if Criterion starts to release 4K movies, but they're only available on the Criterion Channel.

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by rooprect

I personally don't believe 4k will ever have that sort of universal surge.

Five years post-intro of UHD the platform averages 5% of revenue, not units, so it is what it is, and that's not speculation, that's a fact.

Once Samsung gave notice on the rejection of Dolby Vision, and Sony waffled along with dragging their feet to launch a UHD player, the die was cast. Everyone knew the future belonged to streaming, and behaved accordingly.

Originally Posted by rooprect

...it's the fact that the public--the average human eye--is happy with 1080p.

The bottom line is while UHD can deliver a technically superior image, that superior image doesn't necessarily translate to a superior viewing experience for the overwhelming majority of viewers.

Last night I viewed the UHD for Psycho, which is a good representation of a significant number of titles in the Collection. When comparing the UHD vs. Blu of the same restoration/master, the improved UHD image quality doesn't fundamentally change the viewer experience. And once the average viewer determines the degree of image quality, the focus is the film.

In other words, the overwhelming majority of viewers aren't writing a disc review or playing a disc to show off their TV, they're watching a movie to watch the movie.

The determining factor, inline with past Criterion statements on the subject, is the quality of the restoration, not the disc resolution or the application of HDR, which has the potential to alter the original theatrical/prior experience.

The same can be said for lossless vs. lossy. Apple stated that they did not believe their new lossless content moved the needle, because testing showed that only 2% of users noticed the difference, and that the real game changer was spatial audio, where users overwhelmingly noticed a benefit. For film, lossless usually represents restored or remixed along with superior sound to reflect modern audio, but listening to a lossy Atmos track vs. a lossless Atmos track is only appreciably different provided you have the setup and room correction.

Now, if we're speaking Godzilla vs. Kong, well, eye and ear candy isn't one thing, it's the only thing.

But that's not Criterion's business.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

Because they cost more to put out there and people buy less of them. Something has to give somewhere. They will either have to charge more for them, and there will be a pricing solution for that, or they will have to cut back elsewhere. Maybe I am wrong and magic gnomes make all of these disks while everyone sleeps.

If companies like Mill Creek can make UHD's, I'm pretty sure Criterion will be just fine..

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by regeyer

Imagine if Criterion starts to release 4K movies, but they're only available on the Criterion Channel.

I think Criterion fans would burn an effigy in the middle of Barnes & Noble every July and November.

[BluLobsta]

I'm sure there's still a strong market for a cheaper alternative, too. A lot of people don't like dropping loads of cash when they are happy with how it looks. Look at the Eclipse DVD series at Criterion. I'm sure they don't lose money on that. I've been drooling over Late Ozu for awhile now but haven't pulled the trigger (yet).

ECLIPSE SERIES

[iamnoone]

True confession, for the last year or so, I continue to buy Criterion Blu's during the sales, but I have been leaving them sealed JUST IN CASE they started doing 4K upgrades. Easier to sell off a new-sealed Blu for more than an opened one if that were to happen.

Sounds crazy, but with Shout reissuing a ton of Blu titles on 4K (if John Carpenter is connected - 4K!), and Kino now upgrading some titles, I am just tired of double or triple or quadruple dipping, not that anyone is forcing me, but I do prefer to have the best version in the end, and I will sell off the earlier editions, usually at a loss.

Thankfully, I have a ton of unwatched movies, so some sealed Criterions (most of which I have already seen the film) isn't a big hassle, and lesser CC titles that will most likely never get a 4K from anyone, I may start opening anyway, but bigger ones that "could" get a 4K upgrade, if not from CC themselves, but now look at Kino and SOTL! I've bought that movie from the Criterion DVD in the early days, and then later so many times, more times than I've even watched the film!

This obsessive collecting is a sickness, I tell you, a sickness!

[Youre My Boy Blu!]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

I think Criterion fans would burn an effigy in the middle of Barnes & Noble every July and November.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by BluLobsta

I'm sure there's still a strong market for a cheaper alternative, too. A lot of people don't like dropping loads of cash when they are happy with how it looks. Look at the Eclipse DVD series at Criterion. I'm sure they don't lose money on that. I've been drooling over Late Ozu for awhile now but haven't pulled the trigger (yet).

ECLIPSE SERIES

Late Ozu is an amazing set, not a bad film in the bunch. Well worth the money.

[Youre My Boy Blu!]

Originally Posted by iamnoone

True confession, for the last year or so, I continue to buy Criterion Blu's during the sales, but I have been leaving them sealed JUST IN CASE they started doing 4K upgrades. Easier to sell off a new-sealed Blu for more than an opened one if that were to happen

....

I can't say I've taken the same tactical approach, but I'm now going to add that to my arsenal of excuses when folks see my collection of pristinely stored unwatched Criterion Blus

Originally Posted by iamnoone

.....

This obsessive collecting is a sickness, I tell you, a sickness!

Tell me about it, I'm literally locked up with Covid as I go for this blind buy deep dive into this Criterion Sale.

In my defense, I haven't indulged like this on Criterions for a couple of years, so I was due for one of these whether sick or healthy.

My Pick Six are blind buys with exception to Deep Cover, but I haven't really sat down to watch in over a decade. Last night I attempted to stream Tarkovsky's Mirror but stopped after only minutes into it and decided that I had best just watch it on the Criterion.

[BaronVH]

Look, all this is nice and good, and I hope Criterion does it and makes triple the profit, but just because X studio does it, does not mean it will necessarily be a good business decision. If you think all they have to do is release them, and everything will automatically be great, then you are deluding yourselves. Studios have closed due to market changes. Some of the best cinema chains in existence have gone under or filed bankruptcy recently. I know people really want them to release them. I do too. But if it is not done with extremely careful business planning, then I hope you enjoy your streaming services.

Edit: On further reflection, I think I am being too negative. They are a tried and true business, and I am sure they have done their research and what UHDs would entail. Maybe that means three films a month, higher prices, or maybe it means no change. The future will be what it is. What I do know is this- they are the top company releasing classic, foreign, and art house films in physical form, and my trepidation of any change is that I want them to continue to do what they do.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

But if it is not done with extremely careful business planning, then I hope you enjoy your streaming services.

I mean, if they ARE jumping in, they waited five-plus years to do it and would be almost the last notable media company to go UHD. I don’t think lack of careful planning is something we need to worry about with them. At least here.

[guizhang]

what are the chances of nostalgia and the sacrifice getting a criterion release? to complete the tarkovsky collection.
wondering if i should wait or watch their current releases

[BunyipPouch]

Originally Posted by guizhang

what are the chances of nostalgia and the sacrifice getting a criterion release? to complete the tarkovsky collection.
wondering if i should wait or watch their current releases

I'd say pretty unlikely for a while, especially for The Sacrifice since the current version was only released in 2018.

Both are still licensed and in-print with Kino, and their license's usually last 5 or more years. (Nostahlgia on the other hand, was released in 2014 and still in print, so maybe their Tarkovsky licenses are 10 years or so).

[tatterdemalion]

Originally Posted by guizhang

what are the chances of nostalgia and the sacrifice getting a criterion release? to complete the tarkovsky collection.
wondering if i should wait or watch their current releases

The 2018 Kino release of The Sacrifice looks great and is well worth owning. It does have an audio commentary, an interview and a booklet. I'm not sure why they didn't put the Directed by... documentary on BD but oh well.

Nostalghia on the other hand comes from an old negative. It has spots and scratches, which is most noticeable in the beginning of the film, especially in the first reel. After that it's mostly some white & black speckles/spots that show up occasionally but the image is pretty sharp. With a little cleaning up it would be just fine.

So if you feel you need Nostalghia I'd suggest to buy it used, but the 2018 Kino release of The Sacrifice has no problems and you'd be happy to buy it new.

[dkelly26666]

Well, on another note, I hope we get to find out very soon what (if any) Big Box set we may get for November of this year.

[mmarczi]

Originally Posted by BluLobsta

I'm sure there's still a strong market for a cheaper alternative, too. A lot of people don't like dropping loads of cash when they are happy with how it looks. Look at the Eclipse DVD series at Criterion. I'm sure they don't lose money on that. I've been drooling over Late Ozu for awhile now but haven't pulled the trigger (yet).

ECLIPSE SERIES

While I have zero regrets about purchasing this, the Late Ozu Eclipse set is BY FAR the thing in Criterion's catalogue most in need of an upgrade for me personally. Honestly, I would be more excited about an Ozu box set than a Kurosawa box set, I think, if push came to shove. But on the Late Ozu set, every single one of those films merits an individual release. All five of them are at least as good as The Flavor of Green Tea Over Rice, for example.