The Criterion Collection

[keldons]

so pro-b didn't discuss the fact that Dunham wasn't a fan of The Godfather or touch on her weight? I knew his reviews were getting worse.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

I actually play more R2 DVDs on mine than Region B Blu-rays simply because I've been buying R2 DVDs a bit longer (I could play them on my laptop).

Ditto for my Seiki. My LG DVD player from 2005 (that's still alive and kicking, running like a champ!) had the ability right out of the box to play PAL and convert it. I was a bit miffed when my Panny couldn't play my PAL copy of The Mouse that Roared. Until I got the Seiki, I was watching PAL DVDs on my 20" TV because I had removed my DVD player from my living room because I thought it was redundant, and the only input I had left that DVD player supported was Component, and I had no component cables left. Silly TV doesn't do S-video, which is how I hook my LG up.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Exactly, but Pro-B has actually watched the film, and didn't base his review off of the fact that Dunham doesn't like a certain film, or because he doesn't like the way she looks. His review seems fair, as he gave the film itself a 3/5, or 60%. that's basically the lowest Rotten Tomatoes allows for a fresh rating. There are probably some people who will buy this, and they shouldn't be faulted for that. I'm sure it's something that has been done before, and probably has been done better, yet the film is still winning awards and getting a lot of coverage (both positive and negative).

I probably won't buy it myself, and yes I'm aware that I was one of the more vocal ones against those who were bashing it, but I'm at least going to see it before I pass judgment on it, and can recognise that some people may appreciate it, and understand why Criterion has added it to the collection.

They have a lot of films in their collection I don't like, some I even hate, yet they have a good reason (for Criterion) to have them in the collection. A lot of people seem to have this skewed perception of Criterion, and think that they should only do "classic" films, or films that they like, and seem to feel that when a film they dislike is added, it's "taking the place" of something else. As others have said, MoC are releasing a lot more interesting titles right now. That's good for them, as it is their taste. You don't alwways have to buy the Criterion release, as these other independent companies have releases that are on par, or sometimes greater than Criterion.

Unfortunately, Pro-B's review is just going to be interpretated as validating the negative criticism against Dunham, that has nothing to do with the film itself.

I will preface by saying that all film is art and should be seen before judgment is passed on it. I actually think that the film itself deserves more criticism and possibly take the opposite of what you think. I think because Criterion seemed to be 'on' this film, it will be perceived as a 'hidden gem' because Criterion gave it a spine. Frankly, it is a poor film, and yes I have seen it, that goes beyond a proper exam of self-loathing, which Lena does very well. The 'look at my terrible life' focus of the film is funny considering who she is. I do not remember reading anything about how her life came from nothing, but my perception is different than others. The fact that she believes her life as 'difficult' is the problem with college graduates these days, but that is another social discussion for another time. I think she is no more than just another want be 'Wes Anderson' that caught someone's eye at Criterion. Hopefully this is the last we see of this 'fimmaker', but that is just my opinion.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by jcs913

I will preface by saying that all film is art and should be seen before judgment is passed on it. I actually think that the film itself deserves more criticism and possibly take the opposite of what you think. I think because Criterion seemed to be 'on' this film, it will be perceived as a 'hidden gem' because Criterion gave it a spine. Frankly, it is a poor film, and yes I have seen it, that goes beyond a proper exam of self-loathing, which Lena does very well. The 'look at my terrible life' focus of the film is funny considering who she is. I do not remember reading anything about how her life came from nothing, but my perception is different than others. The fact that she believes her life as 'difficult' is the problem with college graduates these days, but that is another social discussion for another time. I think she is no more than just another want be 'Wes Anderson' that caught someone's eye at Criterion. Hopefully this is the last we see of this 'fimmaker', but that is just my opinion.

I respect that. You have at least watched the film before condeming it, and again, you're not bashing her based on her physical appearance and because she hasn't seen The Godfather. My beef with the criticism is that most of it is being laid against Dunham herself, such as whether or not she's a large land animal or whale, and what classic films she likes,which have nothing, or very little to do with her film, from people who have not watched the film, and refuse to watch the film.

Also, if you read my words carefully, that while you don't enjoy the film, or feel it belongs in the collection, there are plenty of valid reasons as to why Criterion has included it. There are a lot of films in the collection I don't care for, yet I don't think Criterion should be barred from chosing to release them. Some people here think the film should be banished altogether. I also think it's a bit of a negative opinion to say you hope it's the last we see of Dunham. Shouldn't she be given the opportunity to improve upon her film making?

[retablo]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

I live in an apartment so DHL usually fails to deliver the first time. On the other hand, UPS always seems to find a way to get in and deliver via Prime.

I've gotten in the habit of leaving an OK-to-leave in lobby note for the carrier if it's not UPS.

That's nothing... whenever ONTRAC delivers via Amazon, my package is always missing. EVERY time. It says "Delivered to front door" on the website, but it's never there. So Amazon checks, says it's lost, sends a replacement package. Ten about 2 weeks later, the original box shows up and I have extra stuff to sell on Amazon for all the damn trouble.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I respect that. You have at least watched the film before condeming it, and again, you're not bashing her based on her physical appearance and because she hasn't seen The Godfather. My beef with the criticism is that most of it is being laid against Dunham herself, such as whether or not she's a large land animal or whale, and what classic films she likes,which have nothing, or very little to do with her film, from people who have not watched the film, and refuse to watch the film.

Also, if you read my words carefully, that while you don't enjoy the film, or feel it belongs in the collection, there are plenty of valid reasons as to why Criterion has included it. There are a lot of films in the collection I don't care for, yet I don't think Criterion should be barred from chosing to release them. Some people here think the film should be banished altogether. I also think it's a bit of a negative opinion to say you hope it's the last we see of Dunham. Shouldn't she be given the opportunity to improve upon her film making?

Just to clarify MY comments, I wasn't bashing her for not seeing The Godfather. I was bashing her flippant comments ABOUT not having seen it. Again, as a filmmaker, it's her responsibility to engage in all art regarding her craft, because that's how you learn. If she refuses to even watch acknowledged classics, then tries to be cool by posting in public about her defiance, then she is going to get criticism from those who respect cinema more than she does.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by Banned User

As far as the Insignia's and the Momitsu 799 I assume the Momitsu is the better player, but probably older model? Also do all of them play PAL and 50i content?

After Criterion's latest release announcement and then now MoC's I think Criterion really needs to step up their game. I'm glad they announce some more obscure stuff, but personally I'd like to see some more popular, classic titles that haven't seen a Bluray release and less stuff like ( dare I mention it ) Tiny Furniture.

I really didn't want to hassle with a region free player. With the MoC titles and then all the Region B Ealing Studio releases, personal favorites of mine, (while Region A has only one: Ladykillers) I feel I am forced to go that route.

I love my Momitsu...but unless you find one on EBay, etc...you can't buy them anymore. I think I paid around $239.00 or so for mine.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I respect that. You have at least watched the film before condeming it, and again, you're not bashing her based on her physical appearance and because she hasn't seen The Godfather. My beef with the criticism is that most of it is being laid against Dunham herself, such as whether or not she's a large land animal or whale, and what classic films she likes,which have nothing, or very little to do with her film, from people who have not watched the film, and refuse to watch the film.

Also, if you read my words carefully, that while you don't enjoy the film, or feel it belongs in the collection, there are plenty of valid reasons as to why Criterion has included it. There are a lot of films in the collection I don't care for, yet I don't think Criterion should be barred from chosing to release them. Some people here think the film should be banished altogether. I also think it's a bit of a negative opinion to say you hope it's the last we see of Dunham. Shouldn't she be given the opportunity to improve upon her film making?

BG, the more I thought about the bold, as this unfairly has added to my further dislike for the film. I, as many other are, not privy to why Criterion would include a film like this into the collection and pass on a great film like Certified Copy befuddles me. I think the scales of justice would heavily be in favor of Certified Copy as more of a consistent Criterion release. Frankly, I believe that Criterion is trying to include more modern female directors into the collection at the expense of quality, but again, that is my opinion.

By the way, I did read those comments she made about film and agree 100% with retablo. You have to understand the realm of your craft before you can pass an 'informed' judgment on it. I will say it would have been hilarious and mildly redeeming if her interest Keith had a last name of Corleone.....

[rkish]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Unfortunately, Pro-B's review is just going to be interpretated as validating the negative criticism against Dunham, that has nothing to do with the film itself.

Those of us with half a brain (I think we all qualify ) know that any director can make a mediocre to bad film. Even the good directors (fill in the blank as you see fit).

I haven't watched the film yet...but I have NetFlix streaming, so when I get around to it...I'll watch and THEN give you my two cents...

[Presence]

I can't even put in words how insignificant Lena Dunham's opinion of the Godfather is. Her opinions mean so little you can almost argue they don't exist at all.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by Banned User

...the Momitsu 799...is the better player, but probably older model? Also do all of them play PAL and 50i content?

The Momitsu would be an older player than the Insignia...it does both the PAL to NTSC conversion and can play 50i content. I haven't had any problems with films or supplements...right Chris?

[rkish]

Originally Posted by Cinemach

I think a region-free player is just about a must-have for cinema-lovers, whether uber-cinephile or not, especially when one can be had as cheaply as the models that are available*. There's just too many good films released around the world that a) are not on fast-track to be released and/or b) may not get released in a certain region to just lock yourself into one.

*This is in the North America thread, so I'm going off North America origin assumptions. I realize this may be harder to accomplish in some parts of the world*

AGREED! Criterion will probably never release all of Ozu's films...but BFI will and plans to do so...

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by retablo

Just to clarify MY comments, I wasn't bashing her for not seeing The Godfather. I was bashing her flippant comments ABOUT not having seen it. Again, as a filmmaker, it's her responsibility to engage in all art regarding her craft, because that's how you learn. If she refuses to even watch acknowledged classics, then tries to be cool by posting in public about her defiance, then she is going to get criticism from those who respect cinema more than she does.

You sir, were not the only one making those comments. Also, you're interpretting them as flippant, and again, you're reading something off of the internet, where you cannot decipher tone as accurately as if you were speaking with Dunham personally. Again, people are judging her on what is perceived flippancy, and on one film review. As I have stated time and time again, perhaps there are other achievements in classic cinema that Dunham prefers, but hasn't shared them with us yet. No one has answered why The Godfather is the be all and end all of cinema, and why it is so important that she watches that film and only that film. There are other film makers who made films before The Godfather, and those who continued making films after it came out without watching it. Why is it only Dunham who gets the criticism? Also, for those of you who won't watch the film because of your opinions on Dunham, aren't you behaving in just the same way you are accusing her of behaving?

Originally Posted by jcs913

BG, the more I thought about the bold, as this unfairly has added to my further dislike for the film. I, as many other are, not privy to why Criterion would include a film like this into the collection and pass on a great film like Certified Copy befuddles me. I think the scales of justice would heavily be in favor of Certified Copy as more of a consistent Criterion release. Frankly, I believe that Criterion is trying to include more modern female directors into the collection at the expense of quality, but again, that is my opinion.

By the way, I did read those comments she made about film and agree 100% with retablo. You have to understand the realm of your craft before you can pass an 'informed' judgment on it. I will say it would have been hilarious and mildly redeeming if her interest Keith had a last name of Corleone.....

I'm not privy to why Criterion choses what they do either. However, once can make a reasonable case as to why it might have been added based on the buzz going on around this film. Again, I feel that personal preference and expectation is clouding what people think should or should not belong in the collection. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that someone else doesn't like it. You're entitled to your opinion, but that won't change what Criterion puts out. If you don't like their output, don't buy it. But don't try to prevent others from buying it by saying it's unworthy of a Criterion release all together based on your own vision of what Criterion should or should not release.

I don't go around saying Days of Heavan shouldn't be a Criterion because I think Malick is a boring director, who looks like a Rob "Meathead" Reiner clone appearance wise, and that because he won't give interviews, he doesn't take being a film maker seriously. I didn't enjoy the film, but I have no problem if others do and if Criterion choses to release it.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

You sir, were not the only one making those comments. Also, you're interpretting them as flippant, and again, you're reading something off of the internet, where you cannot decipher tone as accurately as if you were speaking with Dunham personally. Again, people are judging her on what is perceived flippancy, and on one film review. As I have stated time and time again, perhaps there are other achievements in classic cinema that Dunham prefers, but hasn't shared them with us yet. No one has answered why The Godfather is the be all and end all of cinema, and why it is so important that she watches that film and only that film. There are other film makers who made films before The Godfather, and those who continued making films after it came out without watching it. Why is it only Dunham who gets the criticism? Also, for those of you who won't watch the film because of your opinions on Dunham, aren't you behaving in just the same way you are accusing her of behaving?

Flippant means "not showing a serious or respectful attitude". And I'm sorry, but that's the image she paints for herself. Not respecting a very well known classic film and judging it when she hasn't even seen it shows me lack of respect. Perhaps only she gets criticism because she close to make her statements public. had she kept to herself, then no one would know the difference. But she put herself in the public eye, which makes her fair game.

[rock, stone]

Oh good, it has started up again. sigh.

I guess I'll take the time to throw in my two cents.

I watched Tiny Furniture the other day. I didn't like it, and most of it isn't very good. The film (that isn't actually) in the CC that it has the most in common with is Clerks. They both represent a changing of the guard, so to speak, at least as far as how movies are going to be made.

Clerks heralded the Independent onslaught of the 90s, and Tiny Furniture wouldn't exist at all if not for Youtube. And they both are about very dull characters, wallowing in that time of life where people try to be interesting by wearing affectations instead of being interesting.

There are things to appreciate about Tiny Furniture, even if there isn't much to like. I appreciate how unselfconscious Dunham is about her body. Shot after shot is either a love letter to (or self flagellation for) her everyday lumpiness. The very last scene with her mother is actually quite good. In fact, I would say that the familial relationships are far and away the best parts of the film, and that they feel both organic and specific, especially compared to the trite, obviousness of the rest of the movie.

As a first feature, it is not extraordinary, but I will probably check out her tv show out of morbid curiosity. I will be surprised if Dunham grows substantially as an artist (Kevin Smith sure didn't), but stranger things have happened. If her only contribution proves to be stirring the pot a tiny bit, then in the end it is worthwhile.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I'm not privy to why Criterion choses what they do either. However, once can make a reasonable case as to why it might have been added based on the buzz going on around this film. Again, I feel that personal preference and expectation is clouding what people think should or should not belong in the collection. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that someone else doesn't like it. You're entitled to your opinion, but that won't change what Criterion puts out. If you don't like their output, don't buy it. But don't try to prevent others from buying it by saying it's unworthy of a Criterion release all together based on your own vision of what Criterion should or should not release.

I don't go around saying Days of Heavan shouldn't be a Criterion because I think Malick is a boring director, who looks like a Rob "Meathead" Reiner clone appearance wise, and that because he won't give interviews, he doesn't take being a film maker seriously. I didn't enjoy the film, but I have no problem if others do and if Criterion choses to release it.

BG, people are hopefully going to do what they want, but this is why it is called Criterion Collection Discussion thread. We are here to discuss the films that are in the collection, or ones that we want to see in the collection. Our opinions generally mean nothing, but we make them thinking that someone is listening. Isn't this the backbone of the internet.....

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

Clerks isn't a Criterion release.

I think he meant Chasing Amy.

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

Clerks isn't a Criterion release.

I'm totally wrong. I really thought it got a dvd release for some reason.

Still the comparison stands. I don't like Chasing Amy much, but it is bad for slightly different reasons.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by jcs913

BG, people are hopefully going to do what they want, but this is why it is called Criterion Collection Discussion thread. We are here to discuss the films that are in the collection, or ones that we want to see in the collection. Our opinions generally mean nothing, but we make them thinking that someone is listening. Isn't this the backbone of the internet.....

I disagree with that statement. I guess I expected better of this forum, because it seems that anytime someone mentions Dunham, it's in a trolltastic way. I'm just as guilty of it. Why are people only attacking her? Even Wes Anderson and Uwe Boll don't seem to get this kind of hate. I don't have a problem with discussion, but it seems like the criticism against Dunham is more excessive than others, and 90% of it isn't on her film.

Originally Posted by retablo

Flippant means "not showing a serious or respectful attitude". And I'm sorry, but that's the image she paints for herself. Not respecting a very well known classic film and judging it when she hasn't even seen it shows me lack of respect. Perhaps only she gets criticism because she close to make her statements public. had she kept to herself, then no one would know the difference. But she put herself in the public eye, which makes her fair game.

Ok, you're posting this online. You're in the public eye, so you're now fair game. You're acting like a pretentious snob who can't see beyond his own nose and appears to be very bitter about Dunham being more successful than you, since you keep bringing up the fact that you are a screen writer and have been working for years to get a picture made. You obviously can't respect Dunham because you choose to judge her without looking at her films. You're condescending to a lot of posters on this forum and give film fans a bad name because you are a walking stereotype of pretentious film snob.

At least that's the image you present to me with your posts in this thread, and several others. Again, you left yourself open to attack, and you'll just retaliate with more posturing and accuse me of a few things, or even report me to a moderator if you're so inclined, because I made a personal attack towards you.

I'm done with this now, as it's turned into the argument sketch.

[octagon]

No it hasn't.