The Criterion Collection

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by oildude

Big thanks to those who recommended many of the Japanese Eclipse sets to me during the November B&N sale (rkish, drbikeshorts, to name a few). I just finished The Warped World of Koreyoshi Kurahara Eclipse set and thought I would write about it here. This is a fantastic set of films, and a good follow-up to my recent watch of Oshima's Outlaw Sixties set. I appreciate how the liner notes place each film in the collection into its place in film history, and in relation to what was going on at the time in Japanese cinema.

...

I still have the Nikkatsu Noir set, Postwar Kurosawa, Mizaguchi, Shimizu, Silent Naruse, and Silent Ozu sitting on my shelf waiting to be watched. Really loving me some Japanese cinema these days. And to think this was initiated almost a year ago after watching Still Walking, a film I almost passed on because I thought it would be boring and not my cup of tea.

So glad the recommendation panned out well for you
You're actually ahead of me on this set - Thirst For Love will be watched very soon though. Unlike yourself and others, I wasn't as much a fan of Black Sun. However, the others are amazing and as you say, the camera work is truly great.
I've actually still got one film still to watch in the Oshima and Shimizu sets, which I'm really looking forward to.
What about Pale Flower and the Suzuki films - have you seen them yet?
And don't forget the Teshigahara set. Easily one of my favourite purchases

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

You know what I'm watching right now, a little film called Where the Spies are with Françoise Dorléac and David Niven. It's a cheesy 1960s spy-spoof, which is clearly a product of its time, and not all that good. TCM felt it was interesting enough to show, however. So you also have to take that into consideration, TCM or some channel like it, will show a film like Tiny Furniture on 50 years. And you know what else? Some stuff that was panned or bombed back when it first came out, got a newfound appreciation 50 some years after ther fact. You can't predict what's going to happen to Dunham's work, just as people back 50 years ago couldn't predict what would happen to their films. Society changes, and culture changes. Sometimes I think a lot of classic films get the hype they do because someone dictates to people what a "classic" is.

I just feel that some of the attitude here is "OK little girl, you made a film, how cute and quaint, but go away now and let the big boys play, because you've never watched The Godfather, or dislike other classic films and your films will never be as good as these classic male directors. You're not smart enough to make your own film choices, so us boys will tell you what to watch too. You can't possibly like those films you talk about on your own. Someone else had to tell you to like them."

Of course, I could be reading too much into the comments, but there have been other comments throughout all of Blu-ray.com that seem to imply the "wimmin folk" can't appreciate cinema, aren't interested in technology, buy a tonn of shoes, and are a financial burden on their BD habbit. It's not intentional, but compiled with the fact that a female director is being crapped on more than her film, when male directors who have also made "poor" films in the eyes of the "experts" don't get nearly as many comments levvied at them about their appearance, what films they like, who the slept around with, etc., or the fact that someone else tells them what to watch, say, and do because they can't think on their own to get a film made. I don't care if you don't like Tiny Furniture, or do, but some of the comments are a bit disparaging towards any female.

The sexism card?

It just looks like self important drivel to me. I really don't want to see a micro-budget film from a recent film school grad ABOUT THEIR OWN LIFE. That's all I need to know really. No thanks. Sex doesn't even matter, it is a very strange choice for Criterion collection.

I would have a hard time even allocating the TIME involved to stream it for free. I guess I shouldn't completely condemn it without watching it, but to me it's one of those that will be very hard to ever "sqeeze in". I'll probably just end up forgetting about it before I ever watch it.

[DLizzle]

Originally Posted by ccfixx

Move past the stupid and constrictive blu-ray format and you'll, more than likely, find more Bergman films that you'll enjoy. Even then, Criterion has only released 19 of his films and I currently have 36 on DVD/blu-ray. Artificial Eye's blu-ray set in April will bring that total to 40 films. If you enjoy a director's output, you should seek out the films no matter what the format.

I have latched strongly on to Blu-ray for two reasons; one being quality, the other being timing. The format happened to emerge around the time I was becoming very interested in movies, which has provided me with a convenient general path for choosing which films to watch. I find the constrictive nature a positive.

I am interested in Bergman maybe most of all at this point, but I'm also interested in a great number of other artists, and am interested in finding new ones that I haven't experienced. Were I to expand my wishlist to include all formats, it would be much too overwhelming. As it is I have an enormous stack waiting to be viewed from the Christmas sales. I am willing to be patient for now and wait for Blus. If I grow too impatient or my urge for more Bergman becomes too great, then I'll seek out the DVDs.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by drbikeshorts

So glad the recommendation panned out well for you
You're actually ahead of me on this set - Thirst For Love will be watched very soon though. Unlike yourself and others, I wasn't as much a fan of Black Sun. However, the others are amazing and as you say, the camera work is truly great.
I've actually still got one film still to watch in the Oshima and Shimizu sets, which I'm really looking forward to.
What about Pale Flower and the Suzuki films - have you seen them yet?
And don't forget the Teshigahara set. Easily one of my favourite purchases

Which film do you have left in the Shimizu set?

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by VoodooSamurai

I agree totally, there is also a lot of elitism toward the whole "mumblecore" genre, which I've found wonderful. the annoyance seems to be toward the privileged white american characters they tend to portray...

but films like that, like Tiny Furniture ARE important documents of our time and the current state of film. it's not the end all of course, but it is pretty unique and reflective of the culture



I see it as documents of our time like many of the BFI films that we are all enjoying on bluray now. I'm sure in 50 years people will love to see what American youth culture/trends were like, whether they judge them harshly or not. I'd much rather they watched the mumblecore films than Scott Pilgrim vs. the World and stuff like that

I'm not sure these people really reflect our "culture" or trends at all. What is our culture? Unless you can reduce our culture to revolving around NYC film school students that make films about themselves trying be witty, I don't think this is it.

All I see when I watch the preview, is people I would probably loathe in real life. They used digital cameras to make a film about themselves. No thanks.

[keldons]

Originally Posted by AgentOrange

I'm not sure these people really reflect our "culture" or trends at all. What is our culture? Unless you can reduce our culture to revolving around NYC film school students that make films about themselves trying be witty, I don't think this is it.

From the synopsis (I haven't seen it), Tiny Furniture addresses the struggle of recent college grads, who get their degrees and have no where to work. A friend of mine could not have done any better in college, but still had to search over a year before finally getting a full time job. If thats what happens to someone in the top 5 people in their class, what does that say for the hundreds of others that finished lower in the class?

I know a lot of other recent grads that feel the same way, and because of economic situations this feeling of existential angst has rarely been more prevalent, so if thats what Tiny Furniture is tackling, it is very much a product of its time. Whether you like her approach or not is a different story.

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by keldons

From the synopsis (I haven't seen it), Tiny Furniture addresses the struggle of recent college grads, who get their degrees and have no where to work. A friend of mine could not have done any better in college, but still had to search over a year before finally getting a full time job. If thats what happens to someone in the top 5 people in their class, what does that say for the hundreds of others that finished lower in the class?

I know a lot of other recent grads that feel the same way, and because of economic situations this feeling of existential angst has rarely been more prevalent, so if thats what Tiny Furniture is tackling, it is very much a product of its time. Whether you like her approach or not is a different story.

This is a window into a life that probably only applies to .001% of the population. Rich NYC brat that went to college for a fluff degree, then *****es when she gets home and has no direction. It isn't as if she graduated in engineering or accounting, and then can't find a real job. Really, regardless of what is happening now to college graduates, this life story is not something new or groundbreaking. It's something that could have applied to "midwest film school" graduates of 20 years ago. I mean watching that video, she is almost exactly how I would picture the pro-typical "art school brat" of any era. Just replace the black turtlenecks of 10-20 years ago with messed up hair and tats of today.

At least she got lucky and hit the jackpot with her film getting "Criterion treatment" though. She's probably the most successful person out of her class. Wonder if she'll make Tiny Furniture 2 and have the same sarcastic wit about her entitled, yet "directionless" life?

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by AgentOrange

This is a window into a life that probably only applies to .001% of the population.

Unfortunately it's a lot larger than 0.001%

I'm halfway through grade 12 now and part of our various "university preparation speeches" that we get throughout the year, we're being told to assume it will take us at least a year or two to land a job

for the lower-class students who wish to attend university, they are actually recommending they attend a community college first, then work towards their bachelor's degree so that they will be able to get some sort of job and have money to support themselves during this gap between post-secondary graduation and employment

It's practically a given now, which is scary.

And the percentage will only increase (until the last of the boomers retire, at least )

[keldons]

Of course, these are the lucky ones — the graduates who found a job. Among the members of the class of 2010, just 56 percent had held at least one job by this spring, when the survey was conducted. That compares with 90 percent of graduates from the classes of 2006 and 2007. (Some have gone for further education or opted out of the labor force, while many are still pounding the pavement.)

Even these figures understate the damage done to these workers’ careers. Many have taken jobs that do not make use of their skills; about only half of recent college graduates said that their first job required a college degree.

From The New York Times.

I highly doubt all the jobless are "art school brats" (which in my experience are well connected due to their parents and thus find jobs fairly easily).

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by nmycon

Unfortunately it's a lot larger than 0.001%

I'm halfway through grade 12 now and part of our various "university preparation speeches" that we get throughout the year, we're being told to assume it will take us at least a year or two to land a job

for the lower-class students who wish to attend university, they are actually recommending they attend a community college first, then work towards their bachelor's degree so that they will be able to get some sort of job and have money to support themselves during this gap between post-secondary graduation and employment

It's practically a given now, which is scary.

And the percentage will only increase (until the last of the boomers retire, at least )

I don't mean only .001% can't find a job. Because I bet it's at least 20% or more (depending on major).

I mean what % of those that can't find a job, are rich NYC kids that got sent to film school. Throw in that if they went to a film school in the midwest... and came back to NYC, did they really expect it easy to get a "job" in the first place? Film school is not exactly a place where job prospects are great (cue the refence to all the film school or art school dropouts that work at starbucks). From the preview clip, I see someone complaining that a film school grad has to pay some dues as a restaurant hostess in NYC. Really? She didn't anticipate that possibility? Then made a movie about it? ZZZZZ....

Again. I haven't seen the film. But to me it sounds like these deep interpretations are a stretch to apply to an entire generation. Basically she made a movie about herself. It's almost like someone majoring in English, then when they graduate writing their biography. Who the F does that?

[*DrStrangelove*]

I didn't care much when Criterion announced The Letter Never Sent but after watching it I'm really looking forward to its release and am glad Criterion is releasing it. Another great film from the director of The Cranes are Flying (same actress too). This is a day one buy for me. I'm very interested in this director now. Two (imo) masterpieces. Loved every moment of both films and the cinematography was excellent. Hope to check out more of his films.

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by AgentOrange

I don't mean only .001% can't find a job. Because I bet it's at least 20% or more (depending on major).

I mean what % of those that can't find a job, are rich NYC kids that got sent to film school. Throw in that if they went to a film school in the midwest... and came back to NYC, did they really expect it easy to get a "job" in the first place? Film school is not exactly a place where job prospects are great (cue the refence to all the film school or art school dropouts that work at starbucks). From the preview clip, I see someone complaining that a film school grad has to pay some dues as a restaurant hostess in NYC. Really? She didn't anticipate that possibility? Then made a movie about it? ZZZZZ....

Again. I haven't seen the film. But to me it sounds like these deep interpretations are a stretch to apply to an entire generation. Basically she made a movie about herself. It's almost like someone majoring in English, then when they graduate writing their biography. Who the F does that?

I misread your earlier post then sorry

[rock, stone]

So is BG the only participant in this hundred page argument that has seen the effing movie?

TF doesn't deal with any of the economic problems that people have posited. She gets a day job she doesn't care about almost immediately.

If you were to analyze the social context of the movie, it is about the problems we create for ourselves when we don't have any actual problems. The characters are essentially the bored, useless aristocracy. You know, criterion's customer base.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

You know what I'm watching right now, a little film called Where the Spies are with Françoise Dorléac and David Niven. It's a cheesy 1960s spy-spoof, which is clearly a product of its time, and not all that good. TCM felt it was interesting enough to show, however. So you also have to take that into consideration, TCM or some channel like it, will show a film like Tiny Furniture on 50 years. And you know what else? Some stuff that was panned or bombed back when it first came out, got a newfound appreciation 50 some years after ther fact. You can't predict what's going to happen to Dunham's work, just as people back 50 years ago couldn't predict what would happen to their films. Society changes, and culture changes. Sometimes I think a lot of classic films get the hype they do because someone dictates to people what a "classic" is.

I just feel that some of the attitude here is "OK little girl, you made a film, how cute and quaint, but go away now and let the big boys play, because you've never watched The Godfather, or dislike other classic films and your films will never be as good as these classic male directors. You're not smart enough to make your own film choices, so us boys will tell you what to watch too. You can't possibly like those films you talk about on your own. Someone else had to tell you to like them."

Of course, I could be reading too much into the comments, but there have been other comments throughout all of Blu-ray.com that seem to imply the "wimmin folk" can't appreciate cinema, aren't interested in technology, buy a tonn of shoes, and are a financial burden on their BD habbit. It's not intentional, but compiled with the fact that a female director is being crapped on more than her film, when male directors who have also made "poor" films in the eyes of the "experts" don't get nearly as many comments levvied at them about their appearance, what films they like, who the slept around with, etc., or the fact that someone else tells them what to watch, say, and do because they can't think on their own to get a film made. I don't care if you don't like Tiny Furniture, or do, but some of the comments are a bit disparaging towards any female.

well, you and RipleyLV426 are the only two females that post on this site (I'm sure there are more of course)

Well, why my mom loves the classics.

there are some great female directors, heck Katheryn Bigelow got an oscar for The Hurt Locker, even though it's not her best film IMO, my fave she directed is "The Loveless" a biker flick with Willem Dafoe in his film debut

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by AgentOrange

The sexism card?

It just looks like self important drivel to me. I really don't want to see a micro-budget film from a recent film school grad ABOUT THEIR OWN LIFE. That's all I need to know really. No thanks. Sex doesn't even matter, it is a very strange choice for Criterion collection.

I would have a hard time even allocating the TIME involved to stream it for free. I guess I shouldn't completely condemn it without watching it, but to me it's one of those that will be very hard to ever "sqeeze in". I'll probably just end up forgetting about it before I ever watch it.

What do you think belongs in the Criterion collection then? I don't think it's a strange choice at all. It's no stranger than Salo, Blow Out, The Seventh Seal, or The Rules of the Game. Not everyone likes those, nor are they excited to have them in the collection. Criterion's trying to appeal to a wide audience with their releases, they can't make everyone happy all the time. You just don't like it, so don't buy it. There are others who do, and probably will buy it.

And yes, the sexism card is at play in some of the comments. As I pointed out, no one says that Wes Anderson slept around to make his film, nor do we comment on his looks, or criticise his film choices. We also don't say that the films he watches are because Criterion told him to, and imply that adding modern male directors is causing the Criterion collection's "quality" to diminish.
We also tend to attack Wes's FILMS more than we attack him as a person. There's the difference.

I haven't watched the film yet, but your comments about her being a rich brat with a fluff degree is a bit derogatory. So what if she took something you don't find valuable and has more money than someone else, it doesn't change the fact that students graduating from post-secondary and graduate school of any economical background and/or education can't find jobs, and have no idea what to do with their lives. Sometimes those "fluff" degrees get people jobs better than if they had studied a more "serious" degree.

I know plenty of people who were top of their class and took more serious degress like engineering and the sciences, and they can only get jobs working minimum wage jobs. They were told through high school and in university that by the time they'd graduate, there wqould be all kinds of jobs in the field as all the Boomers would have retired. Guess what? They didn't because of the recession. Another thing is that a lot of jobs which only required high school education now require a Bachelor's degree.

There are also a lot of kids who go to university because they are forced into it, and there's a stigma against community college, and often end up doing something they don't enjoy. There are plenty of reasons as to why people don't know what they're going to do once the finish a university degree, regardless of whether or not you think their degree is "important" or not.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by rock, stone

So is BG the only participant in this hundred page argument that has seen the effing movie?

TF doesn't deal with any of the economic problems that people have posited. She gets a day job she doesn't care about almost immediately.

If you were to analyze the social context of the movie, it is about the problems we create for ourselves when we don't have any actual problems. The characters are essentially the bored, useless aristocracy. You know, criterion's customer base.

Actually I haven't watched the film, I'm just as guilty as the rest of them. I haven't said anything as to what I think of the film. I have issues with people judging the film based on what they think of the director, for the reasons I have posted repeatedly.

From what I've heard about the film, there are a lot of people I know who are quite far from aristocracy who act the same way. Also, I think you're going to ruffle some feathers by comparing the posters on this site to Lena Dunham.

Originally Posted by BillyJack

well, you and Ripley... are the only two females that post on this site (I'm sure there are more of course)

Well, why my mom loves the classics.

there are some great female directors, heck Katheryn Bigelow got an oscar for The Hurt Locker, even though it's not her best film IMO, my fave she directed is "The Loveless" a biker flick with Willem Dafoe in his film debut

As I said, the comments that seem a bit sexist are probably not intentional, but it does seem like the attention female directors and actresses receive is often based on their physical attributes, and seem to be scrutinised more heavily than their male counterparts.

As DLizzle posted yesterday, this is just beating our heads against a brick wall. This is the Criterion thread, not the Lena Dunham/Tiny Furniture thread.

[shadedpain4]

I really like Wes Anderson films, but sometimes I wonder if he slept with someone at Criterion to get almost all of his films in the collection.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Actually I haven't watched the film, I'm just as guilty as the rest of them. I haven't said anything as to what I think of the film. I have issues with people judging the film based on what they think of the director, for the reasons I have posted repeatedly.

From what I've heard about the film, there are a lot of people I know who are quite far from aristocracy who act the same way. Also, I think you're going to ruffle some feathers by comparing the posters on this site to Lena Dunham.



As I said, the comments that seem a bit sexist are probably not intentional, but it does seem like the attention female directors and actresses receive is often based on their physical attributes, and seem to be scrutinised more heavily than their male counterparts.

As DLizzle posted yesterday, this is just beating our heads against a brick wall. This is the Criterion thread, not the Lena Dunham/Tiny Furniture thread.

Penny Marshall is not attractive and she has directed some good films

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by BillyJack

Penny Marshall is not attractive and she has directed some good films

I agree, I've enjoyed quite a few of her films, but there's still people out there that will judge her output based on the fact that she is not attractive/female. Also, a lot of people tend to judge her more on nepotism anyways, because Gary Marshall is her brother. I've actually heard quite a few comments laid against Marshall because of that, many which have included comments about her appearance.

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

I really like Wes Anderson films, but sometimes I wonder if he slept with someone at Criterion to get almost all of his films in the collection.

I know it's snark, but thanks.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I agree, I've enjoyed quite a few of her films, but there's still people out there that will judge her output based on the fact that she is not attractive/female. Also, a lot of people tend to judge her more on nepotism anyways, because Gary Marshall is her brother. I've actually heard quite a few comments laid against Marshall because of that, many which have included comments about her appearance.



I know it's snark, but thanks.

both her and Gary Marshall are great, I grew up watching Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley when I was younger

I rememeber she was also married to Rob Reiner (who also became a fine director) for a time.