The Criterion Collection

[SammyJankis]

No matter what your opinion is on Magnolia, saying the film isn't similar to Altman's is just baffling. Their themes may differ, but the layout and structure is undeniably Altman-esque. You can find traces of Altman from his debut all the way to Punch Drunk Love.

[Helikaon]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

I don't get how any of this stuff is snobbery, whats wrong with knowing what you like an what you dislike? :P

I think the key thing is to talk about what you like and what you dislike from your own perspective, i.e. "I loved such and such movie" or "I hated that movie", instead of stating opinions as facts like "that movie was the worst movie ever made". On the latter, as they say, your mileage may vary .

[Thebunk]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

I Really liked recent sci-fi movies like Oblivion , Pacific Rim and Elysium. Best modern Sci-fi movies since District 9.

lot of people into Criterion movies seem to dislike "modern" movies for whatever reason...

I do not want to generalize but at times, this thread can feel like you are on the SteveHoffman.tv forums (audiophile forum where most posters are stuck very hard in their past and believe all new music is garbage).

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Amen. I was about to respond to a certain post, but said user came off as very hostile to any opinion outside of his/her own. What's the use?

If it was my post., I apologize if it came across that way. More than anything, I'd like to keep discussion going. I certainly wouldn't react hostile to any responses. Forums are for differences of opinion and debate.

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by Thebunk

I do not want to generalize but at times, this thread can feel like you are on the SteveHoffman.tv forums (audiophile forum where most posters are stuck very hard in their past and believe all new music is garbage).

I post at SteveHoffman and I don't think most people there think new music is garbage, but the way music is MASTERED today is garbage. I certainly agree with them on that.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by Helikaon

I think the key thing is to talk about what you like and what you dislike from your own perspective, i.e. "I loved such and such movie" or "I hated that movie", instead of stating opinions as facts like "that movie was the worst movie ever made". On the latter, as they say, your mileage may vary .

Ah ok, when I write stuff elk I have done in last few replies, I meant it all in my opinion as opposed to a fact I don't mind if you guys liked the films etc

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

No matter what your opinion is on Magnolia, saying the film isn't similar to Altman's is just baffling. Their themes may differ, but the layout and structure is undeniably Altman-esque.

See Short Cuts. And hey, Altman was a fan of PTA to begin with, so he would not approve of people trying to put his name in the mud. After all, who was going to be passed directing duties if Altman would've passed away during the filming of Prairie Home Companion?

[ultlife2013]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Amen. I was about to respond to a certain post, but said user came off as very hostile to any opinion outside of his/her own. What's the use?

Thanks for the agreeance.

[Helikaon]

Originally Posted by ultlife2013

I said it made me sad, how is that even close to hostile?

He's agreeing with you.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

See Short Cuts. And hey, Altman was a fan of PTA to begin with, so he would not approve of people trying to put his name in the mud. After all, who was going to be passed directing duties if Altman would've passed away during the filming of Prairie Home Companion?

I don't want to make it sound like I'm criticizing the two directors; I'm not. I'm just saying you can clearly see Altman's influence with PTA's earlier work, and he succeeds greatly at implementing the influence while still making the films his own.

And I love Short Cuts. Still haven't seen Prairie Home Companion.

[ultlife2013]

Originally Posted by Helikaon

He's agreeing with you.

Oh my bad! I didn't even notice that OP quoted me.

I am sorry for my mistake.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by Rich Pure Doom

If it was my post., I apologize if it came across that way. More than anything, I'd like to keep discussion going. I certainly wouldn't react hostile to any responses. Forums are for differences of opinion and debate.

Yes. It was yours. I do not shy away from the fact that Magnolia is not only my favorite film of all time, but the film that has actually changed my life more than any other. So, really, please, if you want to say that it is a worthless film that only appeals to the lowest common denominator, you might as well call those of us who have been greatly moved by the film ignorant and uncultured fools.

[Thebunk]

Originally Posted by Rich Pure Doom

All this comparison of PTA to Altman has me frustrated, especially the Magnolia comparison. Comparing Magnolia to a film like Nashville is like comparing 8 1/2 to 300. One of these films is tactless and appeals to the lowest common denominator. It beats you over the skull with whatever obvious points it's trying to make. It presents characters as archetypes and tries to get the viewer to believe these characters say something about the world (they don't). Altman presents us with people in a natural setting and allows his characters to live and react to the world presented to them. Their three dimensions reveal slowly without all the obvious traps PTA would use. Altman is too often criticized of not "making" us invest in his characters. I disagree with this viewpoint wholeheartedly. It's not his job to make us.

The following is taken from a Salon article on Nashville:

In one scene, Lily Tomlin and Keith Carradine have just had sex. (A tape of him singing plays on his tape recorder: This seems to be a seduction technique of his — he’s purveying his self-regard.) In bed, relaxing, he has her show him how to say “I love you” in American Sign Language. She smiles happily, then realizes it’s getting late. She straightens her hair and pulls on her clothes, sizing up the damage in a bathroom mirror. Carradine is stung — we’ve seen him with a number of other women, but he’s opened up only with her. You can see him thinking: “People don’t leave me. I leave them.”

He retaliates by dialing up an old girlfriend, working his charm on her and offering to bring her to Nashville in full hearing of Lily. Almost imperceptibly, Lily — a straitlaced mother and wife who has probably never before cheated on her husband — registers how childish and selfish the man she’s just had sex with is; she also registers how badly she must have needed this tumble. She waves goodbye briskly and leaves wearing a different smile than the one she wore in bed; Carradine ends his phone conversation abruptly. He can make any woman in a club think he’s singing a song for her alone, but here, now, he’s frustrated and disconsolate.

Altman LOADS Nashville with scenes like these, that seem simple and without much meaning, but with a little prying, we can find out everything we want to know about these characters, and without all the heavy-handed direction, we as the viewer, can make up our own minds about them.

I will give PTA credit for improving his craft with his most recent film The Master, which I regard as his most mature film. But to say he's in league with Altman is high praise he has not yet earned. I don't even think it's a valid comparison, no matter how much PTA thinks he's "ripped off" Altman in his career, I still feel like he's done a pretty bad job of it. Their films are NOT similar.

I have never seen Nashville but I have seen Short Cuts. As I have stated before, I respect Altman for creating the blueprint for the modern ensemble films but his a "a few days in the life" type films do nothing for me. The lack of emotion and the characters feel like cardboard cutouts off of the back of a cereal box. The story, well that's just it, there is no story. And I do not want to be "that guy" who criticizes something without seeing it but I hear many of the same criticisms with Nashville.

Magnolia (not without some faults either), does a better job at all of this and still does not wrap everything up neatly as some people seem to think ( they should really rewatch the film). For me, it, and more so Boogie Nights, do a much better job at everything. In fact I feel it is unfair to even compare the two as both of the PTA films VERY ambitious. He swings for the fence and it accomplishes what he aims to do. I feel Short Cuts is like an ameteur pick up game of baseball played by the local neighborhood kids.

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Yes. It was yours. I do not shy away from the fact that Magnolia is not only my favorite film of all time, but the film that has actually changed my life more than any other. So, really, please, if you want to say that it is a worthless film that only appeals to the lowest common denominator, you might as well call those of us who have been greatly moved by the film ignorant and uncultured fools.

I understand. If someone said Dawn of the Dead (1978) was a worthless film I'd feel the same.

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

No matter what your opinion is on Magnolia, saying the film isn't similar to Altman's is just baffling. Their themes may differ, but the layout and structure is undeniably Altman-esque. You can find traces of Altman from his debut all the way to Punch Drunk Love.

I agree that their films are similar on the surface, I just think their methods couldn't be further apart.

[Mansinthe]

Originally Posted by Helikaon

Filmsnobs are the worst kind of snobs . I liked Oblivion, thought Pacific Rim was fantastic, but was disappointed in Elysium after the impressive District 9. What did you think of the latest Godzilla?

oh i havent seen the latest Godzilla movie yet. I always wait with such movies till the bluray is avaible for a decent price. Sometimes i have these movies on my shelf for months before i watch them as well.

Last Time i was in a cinema was when Pearl Harbor was shown
But since i got a projector and a 108 inch screen at home i dont mind that as well.

Another great sci-fi (remake) i really liked was Judge Dredd.
I`ve watched that one at least 5 times. and i still enjoy it ! , The Robocop remake is another movie ive not seen yet.


I think a famous line that Kurosawa said "a good movie has to be fun".
He is absolutly right , and a lot of people forget that sometimes.

if the "mainstream" likes something they usually have to dislike it (but still own it). Or sometimes they only have artsi-fartsi movies in their (criterion) collection that they want everyone to like, and feel proud if they like something that someone else didnt like/didnt understand.

I like mostly everything from Silent classic movie up to a japanese low budget movie like Alien Vs Ninja.

For example i have a high opinion for Pro-B reviews (and some user reviews of some people here) , but sometimes i wouldnt want to watch a movie a second time (ever) that gets 4 or 5 star ratings from him.

But sometimes if you start to talk about your own dislike of such a movie you get a lot of "you better wait for a criterion transformers" comments at some places xD

[Helikaon]

I saw Dawn of the Dead (1978) last week and it was utter crap. What do you guys think?

[Helikaon]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

oh i havent seen the latest Godzilla movie yet. I always wait with such movies till the bluray is avaible for a decent price. Sometimes i have these movies on my shelf for months before i watch them as well.

Last Time i was in a cinema was when Pearl Harbor was shown
But since i got a projector and a 108 inch screen at home i dont mind that as well.

Another great sci-fi (remake) i really liked was Judge Dredd. I think i watched that one at least 5 times. and i still enjoy it !
the Robocop remake is another movie ive not seen yet.


I think a famous line that Kurosawa said "a good movie has to be fun".
I think he is absolutly right , and a lot of people forget that sometimes.

if the "mainstream" likes something they usually have to dislike it (but still own it). Or sometimes they only have artsi-fartsi movies in their (criterion) collection that they want everyone to like, and feel proud if they like something that someone else didnt like/didnt understand.

I like mostly everything from Silent classic movie up to a japanese low budget movie like Alien Vs Ninja.

For example i have a high opinion for Pro-B reviews (and some user reviews of some people here) , but sometimes i wouldnt want to watch a movie a second time (ever) that gets 4 or 5 star ratings from him.

But sometimes if you start to talk about your own dislike of such a movie you get a lot of "you better wait for a criterion transformers" comments at some places xD

Sounds like you have a sweet setup. I probably wouldn't go to the cinema a lot if I had something like that at home either (seeing as most theatre experiences are ruined by other people these days). I remember Pearl Harbor and that I had trouble seeing the screen through the cloud of pot smoke that was hanging in the theatre. Never felt the urge to revisit it though. Really liked the Judge Dredd remake, especially the slowmo scenes, but on a visceral level it couldn't match The Raid which I had seen a few weeks before.

[Thebunk]

Originally Posted by Rich Pure Doom

I post at SteveHoffman and I don't think most people there think new music is garbage, but the way music is MASTERED today is garbage. I certainly agree with them on that.

I have been there for years and have to disagree with you. All you need to do is:

- look at the main music forum first page apand count how many threads are about The Beatles, members of the Beatles, The Stones, Led Zep and a random classic 70s band (ie Yes, Styx, etc).
- check out the thread where the poster asks if people think EDM DJs are musicians. That thread reads like old men yelling at the youngens to get off of their grass.

I dont disagree with you though regarding modern day mastering.

[Polaroid]

I did like godzilla, I loved how the director stayed true to his roots and didn't "sell out" - I loved the twists with the characters, although I found them hard to connect with.

It's one of the good mainstream monster films, I think I prefer Cloverfield but will revisit the new godzilla.

Started I Married a Witch, I'm loving the special effects! Seems like a real fun film haha and transfer is amazing!