The Criterion Collection

[traths]

When they do jump on the 4K train it will probably be titles that are already in their collection. I don't think their new releases will be in 4K.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Michael Harper

Is there any reason to believe there could be a Kurosawa set coming? Any hints? I haven’t been paying much attention lately, and the news of a Kurosawa set would be excellent.

Nothing, but pure speculation. Criterion hasn't released an upgrade or new Kurosawa title since Dreams. Many have guessed that they don't want to release anything due to a boxset they are working on. Akira Kurosawa is one of their biggest sellers so I would say a boxset is inevitable, but the question is when?

[Rayjg]

I’m sure the reason for the lack of UHD from them is covid related. Expect the first UHD second half of next year, post vaccine.

[Xephix]

My theory is that Criterion is wait the for the cost of manufacturing 4k to go down so they can release all their titles in 4k. They way Criterion is structured I can't see them being like Arrow and have one UHD a month and have the rest be 1080p Blu-rays.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Xephix

My theory is that Criterion is wait the for the cost of manufacturing 4k to go down so they can release all their titles in 4k. They way Criterion is structured I can't see them being like Arrow and have one UHD a month and have the rest be 1080p Blu-rays.

It's not very likely because the masters they receive may not be always 4K restorations (even if they are 4K scans) and they may not always get the right to do a region-free release (UHD does not support locking). As for in-house work, the fact is that 4K workflow is a lot more time consuming (and thereby expensive), and for a boutique label to say that "all our releases are going to be 4K from now on" is not practical. The cost of manufacturing the 4K disc is actually a lesser worry.

But yes, I do feel that the main reason Criterion has not as yet committed to UHD is because they want to have some kind of consistency in their product output, and are wary about splitting their customer base between blu-ray and 4K.

[chocolat]

is Mystery Train likely to get a new transfer/release elsewhere in the world? I'm eyeing the criterion and I don't mind if it's a little dated but as it stands it seems like it's still pretty stellar?

[ravenus]

^While improvements are always possible, the screenshots of the Criterion release are tight and colorful, I can't imagine anyone not being happy with it as such.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by ilenewoodsfan99

General question, but should I get the massive Olympics box set, or wait for the few I really want to see get separate releases?

I've posted brief thoughts on the set a couple of times. Here's one:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...stcount=195428

I doubt any other films in the set will get a seperate release.

[regeyer]

Prediction: Criterion will never release a UHD. They will release 4K, but that will be through the Criterion Channel. Let's face it - physical media is dying. I'm not happy about it, and I think it stinks. But the writing has been on the wall for sometime.

Me? I'll hold on to my DVDs, HD DVDs, and Blu-Rays for as long as they last. And I'll keep buying physical media as long as it's available.

[dcx4610]

Originally Posted by regeyer

Prediction: Criterion will never release a UHD. They will release 4K, but that will be through the Criterion Channel. Let's face it - physical media is dying. I'm not happy about it, and I think it stinks. But the writing has been on the wall for sometime.

Me? I'll hold on to my DVDs, HD DVDs, and Blu-Rays for as long as they last. And I'll keep buying physical media as long as it's available.

It's dying with the mainstream audience. It's thriving with the collectors.

Criterion will just sell directly or through Amazon and online stores. They might charge a premium but I think they'll eventually do it. I predict $49.99 MSRP and yes, collectors will buy it at that price.

[kuzronk]

If that was the case then why is B&N so happy to team up with them yearly for the sale if it's just taking up space for "dying media"?

[johnpaul2]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Dvd's sell too well for CC for $20+. Why use 4K restorations on 4K discs, when you can put them on a 2 cent dvd for almost nothing.

That's... not really how it works for Criterion. DVDs don't sell so well for them, but they're heavily dependent on institutions like literally no other US label (possibly any label actually).
It also doesn't cost "nothing" to produce a DVD : while the disc itself might be cheap to produce, you still have to use cases, produce the booklet, do the layouts for everything, handle the logistics of a separate reference, and probably insure all the related stock.

Originally Posted by kuzronk

If that was the case then why is B&N so happy to team up with them yearly for the sale if it's just taking up space for "dying media"?

It might just be that the few sales done at B&N from Criterion are more than for other labels or studios. It doesn't mean they're extremely numerous though : 100 sales is better than 10, but still not 10 000.

This being written, I'm not sure using a yearly sale as an argument is sending a positive message. Otherwise, there wouldn't be the need for such specific sales to begin with, because these would be selling on a regular positive fashion all year long...

Originally Posted by ravenus

they may not always get the right to do a region-free release (UHD does not support locking).

How are doing the other indie labels, then ? Criterion is basically the last big indie not to have released a UHD yet. Do you think Shout has Region B rights on what they released on UHD is the US ? Kino ? Do Carlotta in France have Region A rights ?
Of course they don't.

Originally Posted by ravenus

As for in-house work, the fact is that 4K workflow is a lot more time consuming (and thereby expensive), and for a boutique label to say that "all our releases are going to be 4K from now on" is not practical.

Criterion most certainly is the most staffed indie label in the world. They also clearly have a visibility spanning over several months, possibly several years in advance, over their projects. If Arrow, Carlotta, Le chat qui fume or friggin' Severin can do UHDs, there is not a single doubt that Criterion has the staff-power to do so.

Originally Posted by ravenus

The cost of manufacturing the 4K disc is actually a lesser worry.

Considering the current cost of UHD manufacturing, which is 2 to 6 times more expensive to produce than a BD and 4 to 11 times more expensive to produce than a BD, I'm quite certain Criterion, especially considering their releasing pace, is more than acute about the oncost of going UHD, even on select titles, would add to their yearly production costs and how they'd need to do to recoup those.
Especially considering their specificity regarding their market split shifted by the institutions towards DVD.

[KingOfBunnies]

Hey, just wondering, when you pre-order something on Criterion's website, does it charge you up front or not until it ships? I want to get the Wong Kar-wai box set, but I don't have the money right now, but do want it for the sale price.

[dwk]

Originally Posted by johnpaul2

Considering the current cost of UHD manufacturing, which is 2 to 6 times more expensive to produce than a BD and 4 to 11 times more expensive to produce than a BD, I'm quite certain Criterion, especially considering their releasing pace, is more than acute about the oncost of going UHD, even on select titles, would add to their yearly production costs and how they'd need to do to recoup those.
Especially considering their specificity regarding their market split shifted by the institutions towards DVD.

This. As Lee Kline said, they have transfers ready to go. So it is a matter of costs vs the sales. When those two get in balance, they will release some titles on UHD.

One thing that would help would be to do like it appears Vinegar Syndrome seems to be doing now and only offer UHD/Blu-ray combo packs for UHD titles (while still offering the DVD for institutions.) Yes that would force a price increase on people that only have Blu-ray players, but, in the long run, you'd be doing a favor for them by having them future proof for when they eventually get a 4K player.

[johnpaul2]

Originally Posted by dwk

This. As Lee Kline said, they have transfers ready to go. So it is a matter of costs vs the sales. When those two get in balance, they will release some titles on UHD.

Of course it is. If, in their minds, their releases have the potential to have adequate sales (for Criterion) on UHD, they would adopt it just like they ended up doing with BD. But I guess, they just don't see it happening right now, so they don't.

Maybe it's because they're one of the biggest indie labels around, so their fixed costs are much higher than those of Severin and VS ? Who knows.

Originally Posted by dwk

One thing that would help would be to do like it appears Vinegar Syndrome seems to be doing now and only offer UHD/Blu-ray combo packs for UHD titles (while still offering the DVD for institutions.) Yes that would force a price increase on people that only have Blu-ray players, but, in the long run, you'd be doing a favor for them by having them future proof for when they eventually get a 4K player.

What I don't understand with Criterion is that institutions seem to be quite a specific market but also a significant source of sales for them, so why bundling together this market with the general audience instead of trying to have the most streamlined flow possible with institutions but, on the other hand, following the market to stay competitive on the general market ?
This seems weird to me. I guess it's because it's technically easier for them because they're keeping the institutions without doing anything specific but if it means losing a technical edge, it looks counter-productive.

Also : as we saw with Blu-ray, future proofing is pretty much negligible. People who want to upgrade do so without building a huge pile of stuff basically bought too early.

[dwk]

Originally Posted by johnpaul2

Maybe it's because they're one of the biggest indie labels around, so their fixed costs are much higher than those of Severin and VS ? Who knows.

Yeah. Blue Underground is essentially Bill Lustig, so if he wants everything on UHD, it is a risk to only himself. Synapse is a two man operation, Severin, just a few people. If they take a risk and it backfires, it isn't going to harm dozens and dozens of employees.

Originally Posted by johnpaul2

What I don't understand with Criterion is that institutions seem to be quite a specific market but also a significant source of sales for them, so why bundling together this market with the general audience instead of trying to have the most streamlined flow possible with institutions but, on the other hand, following the market to stay competitive on the general market ?
This seems weird to me. I guess it's because it's technically easier for them because they're keeping the institutions without doing anything specific but if it means losing a technical edge, it looks counter-productive.

I assume that the numbers on DVD sales to the general consumer are still large enough that doing a separate release for institutions wouldn't be cost effective. Although, the lack of DVD versions of the big boxsets (and the OOP status of most DVD boxsets) leads me to think that DVD sales to the general consumer are getting too small to matter much.

[johnpaul2]

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to retrieve the figures but IIRC, the market split for Criterion either is :
- 50/50 but 70 DVD / 30 BD when factoring in the institutions
or
- 70 DVD / 30 BD but 50/50 when factoring in the institutions

So that'd be quite a big market for them, considering how it could shift the figures that much.

[DukeTogo84]

So we should get new titles tomorrow. I'm guessing we might finally get the announcements for Memories of Murder.

[mediocre]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

So we should get new titles tomorrow. I'm guessing we might finally get the announcements for Memories of Murder.

Hoping for that or The Man Who Wasn't There. Or both

[Xtempo]

Finally finished A Canterbury Tale. I had to watch it in spurts nothing is wrong with it except I couldn't take it all in at once. The action was very limited and the glue man part was boring the ending was oddly the most compelling part of the movie when the 3 main characters go their own ways.

Are the other Archer Powell and Pressburger films better or more compelling that you want to watch in one sitting?