The Criterion Collection

[Warm Gun]

I think Criterion should join UHD with a Kurosawa collection.

I know, I know, another 4K post... I don't care.

People keep saying that they won't go UHD because it will give people the expectation that almost everything will eventually come to UHD and tell them that they should stop buying Blu-ray discs. That's idiotic to think anyway. Other boutique labels that have gone 4K continue to release mostly BD only titles. But, if Criterion did release a Kurosawa collection like this, then obviously only some of the movies would have UHD discs, for various reasons, like Toho and others having not even scanned the majority of his movies in 4K and many probably being so degraded now anyway. But they have scanned some in 4K and can probably scan a few more if incentivized. The majority would be normal Blu-rays. This would send these collectors the message that the majority of Criterion's movies will realistically never make it to UHD and that they can continue to mostly safely collect the BD releases. What better way to join the new format than with one of the most liked directors of all time? If would also give the BD/DVD only collectors a very nice bonus in their Kurosawa collections that they can access later when they are ready.

[Sifox211]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

... Other boutique labels that have gone 4K continue to release mostly BD only titles...

Exactly - is Arrow experiencing a backlash because not every new release is not on 4K? No, in fact the general reaction is totally positive.

Also, what I keep finding myself coming back to is that around 2007, Internet forums were raging with a similar debate about BD vs DVD. It seems incredible now, but people were really arguing that DVD was good enough and there was no way all their favourite obscure titles were going to be ported to the new format. And now...

Even further back, I had a friend adamantly tell me that a favourite LP (Television, Marquee Moon) would NEVER be released on CD. Tempus fugit...

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

Exactly - is Arrow experiencing a backlash because not every new release is not on 4K? No, in fact the general reaction is totally positive.

Also, what I keep finding myself coming back to is that around 2007, Internet forums were raging with a similar debate about BD vs DVD. It seems incredible now, but people were really arguing that DVD was good enough and there was no way all their favourite obscure titles were going to be ported to the new format. And now...

Even further back, I had a friend adamantly tell me that a favourite LP (Television, Marquee Moon) would NEVER be released on CD. Tempus fugit...

Tbf, I’m kind of glad I jumped on Blu-ray in the mid-10s. Had I encountered the format in the late 00s or early 10s, so much wasn’t on BD at that point, like Hitchcock films for example. And Criterion was still releasing DVD exclusive titles up until 2010, Arrow around the same time, Eureka in 2012 or so.

I would still argue DVD is still “good enough” for SOME titles, but it would have to be a truly dreadful BD for that to be the case.

Originally Posted by mande2013

Does this suggest Paramount-licensed Criterion titles will go out of print? I'm trying to imagine the entire Fellini set going out of print over this.

Xenon and Troma rereleases are in print alongside their older Vinegar Syndrome counterparts. Crimson Peak, Waterworld and others are still in print from Universal despite the Arrow releases. Think of it as a budget version.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

Exactly - is Arrow experiencing a backlash because not every new release is not on 4K? No, in fact the general reaction is totally positive.

Also, what I keep finding myself coming back to is that around 2007, Internet forums were raging with a similar debate about BD vs DVD. It seems incredible now, but people were really arguing that DVD was good enough and there was no way all their favourite obscure titles were going to be ported to the new format. And now...

Even further back, I had a friend adamantly tell me that a favourite LP (Television, Marquee Moon) would NEVER be released on CD. Tempus fugit...

While some early Blu-ray releases have held up, there were a lot that, yes, technically look better, weren't a major jump that led to a lot of people saying DVD is still "good enough". And let's not forget that a label like Arrow put out whatever HD master they were given back in the early days of them releasing Blu-rays.

I'm still waiting on a better release of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid that surpasses the DVD I have.

Long story short, I'm not rushing Criterion into the UHD format even though other boutique labels are pushing forward with excellent releases.

P.S. We're still getting new to Blu-ray titles in 2021.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

I think Criterion should join UHD with a Kurosawa collection.

I don't think that's even currently possible. They have been struggling with Dersu Uzala for years in order to have it ready for a Blu-ray release let alone a 4K release. A lot of his older films just aren't in good shape. A 4K release would be a true hassle that would have problems that outweigh the benefits.

There are a few films that would be perfect for 4K as the 4K masters are done, like Seven Samurai and Kagemusha, but for the most part a Kurosawa collection on UHD would be a nightmare for them.

[mande2013]

I was about to say, I think a fairly large chunk of Kurosawa’s filmography isn’t even 4K ready at all.

[MifuneFan]

Some of his older films aren't even BD quality to be honest.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by bergman864

And let's not forget that a label like Arrow put out whatever HD master they were given back in the early days of them releasing Blu-rays.

Most labels still do that.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

Most labels still do that.

Yeah, I think most labels have stopped doing that in fear of the backlash it will get now, especially on social media, but then you have companies like Mill Creek who simply don't care apparently.

I'm glad more labels are being cautious, but at the same time, this also means we probably will never see some movies get a release as a license could expire before there are suitable HD elements. I personally would rather it simply not be released if it's truly horrible, but not sure if others feel the same way, otherwise you would imagine labels would completely stop the not ready releases.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Some of his older films aren't even BD quality to be honest.

I think everything Drunken Angel onwards should have a Blu-ray release. The films older than that I could see being a challenge to release in more than one way.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

Also, what I keep finding myself coming back to is that around 2007, Internet forums were raging with a similar debate about BD vs DVD. It seems incredible now, but people were really arguing that DVD was good enough and there was no way all their favourite obscure titles were going to be ported to the new format. And now...

In fairness, you'd be lucky to be able to afford a decent 32" TV back then, so the majority of people literally couldn't see much difference between DVD and BD on their screen.

"I asked Baker for some stats on how TVs have changed along two basic metrics: price and screen size. His earliest numbers were from 2004. That's two years after I started at CNET and a time when most TVs were still CRTs and rear-projection models -- just 7% of TVs sold that year were flat-panel. Today every TV sold is a flat-panel TV.

Even though I've been reviewing TVs for that entire 15-year stretch, it's still amazing to me how stark those numbers are. The most impressive is the last one: Calculating from that average size and price, a square inch of screen in 2004 cost more than five times as much (!) as it does today -- more than seven times as much if you factor in inflation. Baker says the average price of TVs peaked in 2007 between $900 and $1,000."

https://www.cnet.com/news/remember-w...ver-the-years/

[AreaFive]

I would love to see Criterion release Tarsem Singh's The Fall and the Coen brothers' The Ballad of Buster Scruggs.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by AreaFive

I would love to see Criterion release Tarsem Singh's The Fall and the Coen brothers' The Ballad of Buster Scruggs.

My Criterion sense tells me we'll eventually get Buster Scruggs. It may not be this year, or the next, but eventually.

[Azores26]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

I don't think that's even currently possible. They have been struggling with Dersu Uzala for years in order to have it ready for a Blu-ray release let alone a 4K release. A lot of his older films just aren't in good shape. A 4K release would be a true hassle that would have problems that outweigh the benefits.

There are a few films that would be perfect for 4K as the 4K masters are done, like Seven Samurai and Kagemusha, but for the most part a Kurosawa collection on UHD would be a nightmare for them.

Out of the Kurosawa films that underwent 4K restorations, which ones have a Criterion release using their current 4K master? I guess that if most of these Criterions use their respective 2K masters, that could be another indicative that the rumoured Kurosawa box set is indeed real.

[Nocheduro]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

They have been struggling with Dersu Uzala for years in order to have it ready for a Blu-ray release let alone a 4K release.

Are they planning a release of Dersu Uzala? Are the elements that bad?

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Azores26

Out of the Kurosawa films that underwent 4K restorations, which ones have a Criterion release using their current 4K master? I guess that if most of these Criterions use their respective 2K masters, that could be another indicative that the rumoured Kurosawa box set is indeed real.

Dreams, Ikiru, and High and Low I think are the only 4K-sourced Kurosawa blu-rays from Criterion. Actually, it appears Rashomon is too.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by mande2013

Dreams, Ikiru, and High and Low I think are the only 4K-sourced Kurosawa blu-rays from Criterion.

"High and Low" is not from a 4K master.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

Are they planning a release of Dersu Uzala? Are the elements that bad?

Apparently so. This was 2-3 years ago, so hopefully some sort of breakthrough has happened since then.

[randian]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Yeah, I think most labels have stopped doing that in fear of the backlash it will get now, especially on social media, but then you have companies like Mill Creek who simply don't care apparently.

Mill Creek is the king of over-compressed blocky encodes. Quality isn't exactly their thing.

[Warm Gun]

Honestly, Ikiru, Seven Samurai and Rashomon would be awesome to have in 4K. Ran has also been restored in 4K, though I don't know if there is something stopping Criterion from getting their hands on that movie again. Japan has also apparently screened 4K restorations of Sanjuro, Kagemusha and freaking Yojimbo!

Like I said, the majority of movies in this collection would be BD only and it would set the right expectation for future releases.

Originally Posted by Joseph Goodman

There have been a few 4k restorations of Kurosawa performed in the last few years; aside from "Ran" in L'immagine Ritrovata tinkle-vision, none of them have hit even standard Blu-Ray here or in Japan. Toho's recent 4k restorations of "Seven Samurai", "Yojimbo", "Sanjuro", and "Kagemusha" have only been screened in theaters over there, so far.