The Criterion Collection

[dancerslegs]

Originally Posted by BillWatkins

Excellent news that Criterion will be releasing films by Zoltan Fabri. Hope to see releases of:

-Merry-Go-Round (1956)
-Professor Hannibal (1956)
-Édes Anna (1958)
-Two Half-Times in Hell (1961)
-Twenty Hours (1965)
-The Boys of Paul Street (1968)
-The Toth Family (1969)
-The Fifth Seal (1976)
-Magyarok (1976)

Also hoping they get some films from Miklos Jancso. I'd like to see:

-Cantata (1963)
-My Way Home (1965)
-The Round-Up (1966)
-The Red and the White (1967)
-Silence and Cry (1968)
-Red Psalm (1972)

I'd say it's a good bet we'll end up seeing The Fifth Seal among these future Criterion issues. It's almost certainly Fábri's masterpiece and was given a 4K restoration by the Hungarian National Film Institute just a few years ago.

Jancsó is, unfortunately, more likely to be issued in the US by Kino. (Although they certainly seem to be dragging their feet about it.) That said, it would definitely be nice to have expectations overturned and see at least The Round-Up and/or The Red and the White on future Criterion disc.

Here's some further reading up on many of these Hungarian titles for folks not so acquainted with them: https://issuu.com/hungarianfilmarchi...e_katalogus_fi

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Maybe, but it also looks like someone made it dark to the point objects are getting lost in shadow.

It's possible that the Japanese Blu was mastered at RGB aka "PC levels" instead of YCbCr (hard to say since I don't own the disc).

[Filligan]

Originally Posted by FragnitoM

Is mainstream synonymous with quality though? They are definitely behind other labels in terms of video presentation.

If you think 4K is the end-all-be-all of video presentation, then no wonder physical media is on its deathbed. There are a couple hundred people on this website that care about 4K and that’s it. Even my film nerd friends who first convinced me to jump from DVD to blu-ray are skeptical about the true need for ubiquitous 4K releases. The way it seems to cause more problems half the time with tampered/DNR’d releases? The way players are still prohibitively expensive? The fact that TV manufacturers can straight up lie about their television’s true 4K/HDR capabilities?

At the end of the day, is a slight bump in video fidelity more important than the restoration and premium extra content Criterion continues put out with most of their releases? Especially when most people think the difference between 4K and blu-ray can often be just middling? In the eyes of most, no. It’s not.

They'll get there when they feel it’s worth their time and money. In the meantime, get over it already. Blu-ray is still a worthy format to watch films on.

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by Filligan

If you think 4K is the end-all-be-all of video presentation, then no wonder physical media is on its deathbed. There are a couple hundred people on this website that care about 4K and that’s it. Even my film nerd friends who first convinced me to jump from DVD to blu-ray are skeptical about the true need for ubiquitous 4K releases. The way it seems to cause more problems half the time with tampered/DNR’d releases? The way players are still prohibitively expensive? The fact that TV manufacturers can straight up lie about their television’s true 4K/HDR capabilities?

At the end of the day, is a slight bump in video fidelity more important than the restoration and premium extra content Criterion continues put out with most of their releases? Especially when most people think the difference between 4K and blu-ray can often be just middling? In the eyes of most, no. It’s not.

They'll get there when they feel it’s worth their time and money. In the meantime, get over it already. Blu-ray is still a worthy format to watch films on.

I'm new to the 4k game and don't find the difference enough to fret over, perhaps because I don't have a huge TV, but I do want to point out that 4k players are not prohibitively expensive anymore. Hell, the newest generation of gaming consoles are 4k compatible (assuming you don't get the digital only version).

When you're spending $20+ for each movie $150 isn't much to invest...

[Filligan]

Originally Posted by gbm82

I'm new to the 4k game and don't find the difference enough to fret over, perhaps because I don't have a huge TV, but I do want to point out that 4k players are not prohibitively expensive anymore. Hell, the newest generation of gaming consoles are 4k compatible (assuming you don't get the digital only version).

When you're spending $20+ for each movie $150 isn't much to invest...

Maybe in the US, but here in Canada they’re still about $250, which I find absurd for a device that just plays movies in the age of streaming. And I don’t think the new line of gaming consoles, which are still both difficult to find and very pricey, are a convincing argument yet. They will be once they become cheaper, but I don’t think many people shelling out full price for launch-version consoles are in desperate search for 4K discs. They’re buying games and streaming subscriptions, if anything at all.

[FragnitoM]

Originally Posted by Filligan

If you think 4K is the end-all-be-all of video presentation, then no wonder physical media is on its deathbed. There are a couple hundred people on this website that care about 4K and that’s it. Even my film nerd friends who first convinced me to jump from DVD to blu-ray are skeptical about the true need for ubiquitous 4K releases. The way it seems to cause more problems half the time with tampered/DNR’d releases? The way players are still prohibitively expensive? The fact that TV manufacturers can straight up lie about their television’s true 4K/HDR capabilities?

At the end of the day, is a slight bump in video fidelity more important than the restoration and premium extra content Criterion continues put out with most of their releases? Especially when most people think the difference between 4K and blu-ray can often be just middling? In the eyes of most, no. It’s not.

They'll get there when they feel it’s worth their time and money. In the meantime, get over it already. Blu-ray is still a worthy format to watch films on.

THEN DON'T BUY UHD. Keep buying blurays. Nobody is telling you that you can't have your blurays. It's really that simple. Let people with the proper equipment and desire to have the highest quality of video presentation available buy the UHD and voice their desire for it

[Leonard Maltin]

I watched Kagamusha again last night. Wonderful movie but whoo boy the bluray is very, very old. Poor compression and lack of a recent 4K scan bog it down. It's just too old. 12 years old and it shows.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Filligan

Who genuinely believes Criterion is falling behind? They’re still the most mainstream label.

Mmm... If the allegations that they have titles sitting there, yet to be released, particuarly ones that have been restored, what would you say?

[hudson4k]

Originally Posted by mmarczi

The statement literally lists the media they're talking about. I assure you that a small group of forum nerds mad that Arrow and Scream are trickling out a couple of 4Ks while Criterion are not is not diminishing Criterion's brand. It's just gotten beyond insufferable to have to hear people every month whine about this crap like they're surprised. Go buy Tammy and the T-Rex or whatever porn Vinegar Syndrome is releasing if you're more concerned about the format than the content.

Isn't Criterion all about being open-minded about different kinds of cinema? I think Tammy and the T-Rex is an excellent film, honestly. It has one of Paul Walker's best performances as well as a smart and funny script and great practical effects. It's self-aware schlock that works, especially considering how quick it was made on such a small budget.

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by hudson4k

Isn't Criterion all about being open-minded about different kinds of cinema? I think Tammy and the T-Rex is an excellent film, honestly. It has one of Paul Walker's best performances as well as a smart and funny script and great practical effects. It's self-aware schlock that works, especially considering how quick it was made on such a small budget.

Lots of posters forget that Criterion releases plenty of schlock and has at least one film with actual sex in it....

Hell, I'm just about finished with the Bergman boxset and plenty of themes and scenes in his films would fit right in with exploitation films.

[Rayjg]

They shouldn’t release any 4K UHD titles until they upgrade all their DVDs to Bru-lay

[pikachufan1336]

Flowers of Shanghai looks like a lovely film. But I can't seem to find it. Does anyone know where I can rent it?

[Dankk]

Originally Posted by Leonard Maltin

Does Sanjuro Japan blu look better than Criterion's?

Take a look:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...148694&i=0&l=0

That's an interesting question, and a very interesting comparison.

Another commenter mentioned that the JP blu-ray is so dark, that some of the detail gets lost in shadow. However, I would almost argue that the Criterion kind of takes it in the opposite direction, and in some of those Criterion screen caps, you'll notice a little bit of detail being blown out in the highlights.

The Criterion version definitely has a much brighter, contrast-y, "sharpened" appearance to it. I think I personally prefer the Criterion. Even though it's only a black and white film, it feels like the range of brightness on the Criterion disc actually ranges properly from black to white, whereas the JP disc feels like it only ranges from black to gray. The JP disc seems awfully dull and muted overall.

Maybe the more important question is "How did Kurosawa intend for this film to look?" and the answer to that is, I honestly don't know. But thanks for posting that link anyway. I do concede that I'm one of "those" people who actually enjoys comparing PQ under a microscope, as silly as it sometimes is.

Edit: Apparently the Criterion disc is slightly cropped. I do like that the JP disc shows a tiny bit more of the frame.

[jcs913]

Criterion needs to remember the simplicity of digital formats. If you are going to prepare a 4K master, than simply put it on the correct disc. It's frustrating reading their 'specs' every month about a 4K restoration, 4k transfer from the OCN, etc...then they put it on a 2K disc. I agree, the discussion is getting old (I know, I am contradicting myself, so pat yourself on the back), as it is falling on deaf ears with the stalwarts who don't care about quality and seemingly defend the company. And that is fine. But there are many that do care about quality and the fact that a company they have been loyal to and spent a lot of money with over the years, seemingly refuses to push forward is frustrating, when the 'lesser' labels are. That's just not presenting the release in 'the highest technical quality.' I get the cost, but so many of the releases they own would be 'mind-blowing' with a 4k UHD upgrade. And that fact is what is frustrating for film lovers. That's all....

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Leonard Maltin

I watched Kagamusha again last night. Wonderful movie but whoo boy the bluray is very, very old. Poor compression and lack of a recent 4K scan bog it down. It's just too old. 12 years old and it shows.

I think a Kurosawa box set with new restorations and titles Criterion did on DVD would be perfect, similar to their AK 100 DVD set. I'd buy that first sale after it's released.

[gbm82]

I just finished the third act of Fanny and Alexander. I can see why they decided to end the set with this, it feels like a culmination of all his main themes and while it starts extravagantly it seems to be going towards a chamber drama.

This set is a bit daunting and I didn't love every film but watching it in the order presented really brought a different light to the films I had watched previously.

[Smegma]

I don't have actual stats in front of me, but the reality is 99% of consumers don't have a 4k player. Yes, a bunch of guys on blu-ray.com do... But they are the ultra minority.

Lots more people have blu-ray players and purchase blu-rays for home use.

That's really it.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by Smegma

I don't have actual stats in front of me, but the reality is 99% of consumers don't have a 4k player. Yes, a bunch of guys on blu-ray.com do... But they are the ultra minority.

Lots more people have blu-ray players and purchase blu-rays for home use.

That's really it.

Maybe, but 90+% of consumers also do not own a release from Criterion too, let alone Arrow or VS. If you want to compare, realism needs to be involved.

[cicada88]

Originally Posted by Smegma

I don't have actual stats in front of me, but the reality is 99% of consumers don't have a 4k player. Yes, a bunch of guys on blu-ray.com do... But they are the ultra minority.

Lots more people have blu-ray players and purchase blu-rays for home use.

That's really it.

Classic.

Criterion’s first 14 years were almost entirely dedicated to LaserDisc, a format that only had a 2% ownership in the USA by the end of its lifespan in the late 1990s. It had far less than that when Criterion made their first release in 1984.

BTW, I would also argue that the average person actively buying Criterion releases is signifcantly more likely to own a 4K player than the overall average consumer.

Just trying to give some perspective.

[mmarczi]

Originally Posted by professorwho

I think a Kurosawa box set with new restorations and titles Criterion did on DVD would be perfect, similar to their AK 100 DVD set. I'd buy that first sale after it's released.

It would certainly be an upset if this doesn't eventually happen. I don't suppose there's a whole lot they could do with something like Sanshiro Sugata, but the fact that something like Red Beard or Ran they haven't even put out on blu ray yet is a head-scratcher.