The Criterion Collection

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Not to mention Do the Right Thing.

the relevance of the film is indisputable.

again, it's just my opinion, but I loved the film the first time I saw it years ago. I was excited to watch it last year when Amazon (or somebody) had it free for a weekend. this time I couldn't get through it. Spike Lee is too stage-y for me. the conversation between Mookie and the John Turturro character about black musicians and white musicians is a prime example.

I will concede, though..... It is a "great" film.

[mmarczi]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Yes. That's what it is.

If you have a film to cite as an example, I'll take it under consideration. If the best you can do is condescension, then I'll carry on discussing with bergman and anyone else who wishes to chime in.

Seriously? I gave you a list of directors. It's so patently obvious that Criterion's catalogue is full of socially-conscious movies that to be unaware of this would seem to imply either an ignorance of the catalogue or of the ability to detect the commentary in the films.

La haine. The Other Side of Hope. The Rules of the Game. Boudu Saved From Drowning. White Material. The 400 Blows. M. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul. Ikiru. The Battle of Algiers. The Great Dictator. Harakiri. The Human Condition. Au revoire les enfants. Late Spring. Bicycle Thieves. Ace in the Hole. Army of Shadows. The Exterminating Angel. Hunger. Paths of Glory. Le beau Serge. 12 Angry Men. Anatomy of a Murder. La promesse. Two Days, One Night. A Man Escaped. The Big City. Charulata. To Be or Not to Be. Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion. Touki Bouki. A River Called Titas. The Cloud-Capped Star. Dry Summer. Manila in the Claws of Light. Memories of Underdevelopment. A Raisin in the Sun. Eight Hours Don't Make a Day. Kes. I, Daniel Blake. Dheepan. Black Girl. Dr. Strangelove. Death by Hanging. My Beautiful Laundrette. La Cienaga. Safe. La poison. Certain Women. A Dry White Season. La verite. 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days. Matewan. Europa Europa. All About My Mother. Roma. Bamboozled. The Cremator. Come and See. Pixote. Wooden Crosses. No Regrets for Our Youth. One Wonderful Sunday. The Life of Oharu. Morning for the Osone Family.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Older films aren't available to critique? What do lost films have to say about the quality of the ones that survived?

I don't know what it has to do with anything, but I'm a late gen X'er and most of my favorite films were made before I was born.

Regarding what you said about socially conscious movies being the best reviewed.. You're right. I don't think it is debatable that right now we are at the highest state of social consciousness that we've ever been, so all of the attention is on movies of this ilk.

Most movies from the 70's could not be made now - not just because of political correctness, but because the loudest voices in society don't seem to have a taste for movies that don't deal with social issues.

It's pretty clear that I said a lot of older films aren't available to critique, meaning there a fewer older films on physical media (or streaming) than newer films. I bet most people, even professional reviewers, have seen more movies released from the last five years than they have from the 20s/30s/40s combined.

And I don't really care about how many favorites of yours were released before you were born. I asked about which decade represents most of your views.

Plus, I don't know which movies from the 70s you want to see again that isn't being made today. Obviously movies aren't made the same way every decade, but there's plenty of movies that I'd say fit what I think of as 70s cinema, with the very best films of any decade being hard to replicate. Then again, without knowing what type of movies you're talking about I really can't comment.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by bergman864

It's pretty clear that I said a lot of older films aren't available to critique, meaning there a fewer older films on physical media (or streaming) than newer films. I bet most people, even professional reviewers, have seen more movies released from the last five years than they have from the 20s/30s/40s combined.

And I don't really care about how many favorites of yours were released before you were born. I asked about which decade represents most of your views.

Plus, I don't know which movies from the 70s you want to see again that isn't being made today. Obviously movies aren't made the same way every decade, but there's plenty of movies that I'd say fit what I think of as 70s cinema, with the very best films of any decade being hard to replicate. Then again, without knowing what type of movies you're talking about I really can't comment.

don't fault me for sharing. I'm trying to facilitate whatever point you're trying to make and I'm just not understanding. which decade represents my views? my views on what?

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by bergman864

I wonder which decade(s) you've seen the most films from.

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

don't fault me for sharing. I'm trying to facilitate whatever point you're trying to make and I'm just not understanding. which decade represents my views? my views on what?

That was in my initial response to you. Should I ask it again here?

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by bergman864

That was in my initial response to you. Should I ask it again here?

versus films from the last 10 years, I have, without question, seen more movies from the 40's and 60's and probably the 50's and 70's, too.

so what does that say about my social message movie fatigue?

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by mmarczi

Seriously? I gave you a list of directors. It's so patently obvious that Criterion's catalogue is full of socially-conscious movies that to be unaware of this would seem to imply either an ignorance of the catalogue or of the ability to detect the commentary in the films.

[Show spoiler]La haine. The Other Side of Hope. The Rules of the Game. Boudu Saved From Drowning. White Material. The 400 Blows. M. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul. Ikiru. The Battle of Algiers. The Great Dictator. Harakiri. The Human Condition. Au revoire les enfants. Late Spring. Bicycle Thieves. Ace in the Hole. Army of Shadows. The Exterminating Angel. Hunger. Paths of Glory. Le beau Serge. 12 Angry Men. Anatomy of a Murder. La promesse. Two Days, One Night. A Man Escaped. The Big City. Charulata. To Be or Not to Be. Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion. Touki Bouki. A River Called Titas. The Cloud-Capped Star. Dry Summer. Manila in the Claws of Light. Memories of Underdevelopment. A Raisin in the Sun. Eight Hours Don't Make a Day. Kes. I, Daniel Blake. Dheepan. Black Girl. Dr. Strangelove. Death by Hanging. My Beautiful Laundrette. La Cienaga. Safe. La poison. Certain Women. A Dry White Season. La verite. 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days. Matewan. Europa Europa. All About My Mother. Roma. Bamboozled. The Cremator. Come and See. Pixote. Wooden Crosses. No Regrets for Our Youth. One Wonderful Sunday. The Life of Oharu. Morning for the Osone Family.

most of these films are not social message movies, but ok.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

versus films from the last 10 years, I have, without question, seen more movies from the 40's and 60's and probably the 50's and 70's, too.

That tells me a little more. I was hoping for a tangible number or an estimate.

At least I can ask what films you've seen from the last ten years vs the ones you've seen from the other decades. I don't know the type of films you've avoided watching from the previous decade. Are they blockbuster releases? Do you have any streaming services and you search for independent films or films from other countries?

I don't know the type of films you've watched from the other decades either.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by bergman864

That tells me a little more. I was hoping for a tangible number or an estimate.

At least I can ask what films you've seen from the last ten years vs the ones you've seen from the other decades. I don't know the type of films you've avoided watching from the previous decade. Are they blockbuster releases? Do you have any streaming services and you search for independent films or films from other countries?

I don't know the type of films you've watched from the other decades either.

my favorite film from the last few years is Burning. yes, I like foreign cinema... otherwise, I wouldn't be in this thread.

we may have digressed from the original discussion, but if you've got some recommendations for me, lay them on me. you can link to my list of recently watched through my collection count figures on the left here.

[KMR]

Originally Posted by Sterling450

June 2021:

Pickup on South Street (Spine Np. 224, 4K Rest., Mono)
Pariah (Spine No. 1083, 2K Rest., 5.1)
Visions of Eight (Spine No. 1081, 4K Rest., Mono)
The Signifyin' Works of Marlon Riggs (Spine No. 1082, 2K Rest., Stereo)
Streetwise / Tiny: The Life of Erin Blackwell (Spine No. 1079, 1080, 2K Rest., Mono/5.1)
The Human Condition (Spine No. 480, 2K Rest., Mono/4.0)

Is "Rest." supposed to mean "restoration"? I don't think all of these actually needed any restoration. Like Pariah from 2011! (For which Criterion doesn't mention anything about a restoration in their announcement anyway.)

[mmarczi]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

most of these films are not social message movies, but ok.

I feel like it says something if you can't see the 'social message' in the majority of these films, which consist of often overt commentary along racial, economic, class, sex, sexual identity, civil rights, political, ideological, etc. lines. I'd love to find out how limited and narrow your interpretation of 'socially important' movies is. At the moment, it seems to be 'black and gay stuff made by black and gay people in America'.

[KMR]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Mishima: A Life in 4 Chapters

Even to someone (like yours truly) who has never read any of Yukio Mishima's work, Paul Schrader's film at least distinguishes itself as a gripping and intriguing work of deep-felt personal passion and gorgeous artistry. It also has probably the most dramatic and pulse-quickening music Philip Glass did in his entire life. Heck, I think after this Glass spent most of the remainder of his life in convalescence

The video on the blu is nothing short of fakkin' awesome, with incredible colors and textures, and while I've seen only a few of the extras including the Donald Ritchie interview, vintage Mishima interview and the piece with producers Tom Luddy & Mata Yamamoto, this is already showing itself up as one of the best releases in the 'C'ollection. The digipack design is goofy with a fat booklet that threatens to fall out every time you pull the pack out of the slipcase, but the artwork is admittedly gorgeous.

I am madly in love with Glass' score for Mishima. I bought the CD very soon after seeing the movie. As for the movie itself, I don't find it particularly special story-wise, but the music and the production design are so spectacular.

[KMR]

Originally Posted by The Coconut God

I was thinking more of Desert Hearts.

I literally LOL'd at this! Great!

[KMR]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

The Human Condition gets an upgrade?

[Show spoiler]

An upgrade to the human condition? I'm all in for that!

Oh, wait--you're probably talking about the movie and not the actual thing...

[Cinematt]

Anyone who doesn't want movies to challenge their understanding of the world and introduce them to perspectives about life that are wholly different from their own is going to waste a lot of time exploring the Criterion Collection.
It can be a lot harder to judge a truly timeless film when it is new, sometimes the emotion of current events gives extra weight and if we're lucky the world can move on enough that people watching them in 50 years won't understand what the fuss was about, but that doesn't mean they're not great just because they're only great for a while. Some of the best art is urgent and timely, other things are detached and timeless, they're just great for different reasons. Also I'm sure plenty of the best films of recent years haven't caught wide attention yet, there's so much noise to cut through with the sheer volume of content that's being created and promoted that it's going to be hard to surface all the really great things straight away. I have no doubt there are amazing films from all around the world waiting to be 'discovered' by English speaking audiences that have never had so much to choose from before. Come back in another 20 years and let me know what you think of the last decade then.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by mmarczi

I feel like it says something if you can't see the 'social message' in the majority of these films, which consist of often overt commentary along racial, economic, class, sex, sexual identity, civil rights, political, ideological, etc. lines. I'd love to find out how limited and narrow your interpretation of 'socially important' movies is. At the moment, it seems to be 'black and gay stuff made by black and gay people in America'.

Yes. That's what it is.

If you believe in leftist values, which I do, a bulls**t generalization like this one is the exact reason why our common sense arguments don't win out as often as they should. that remark embodies the very reason why some people hate us.

[mmarczi]

You call yourself a leftist and yet you have something against the idea of an 'agenda' to correct imbalances in representation? That doesn't sound compatible at all. And you put yourself in the position of being generalized when you characterized a long list of films with social messages as largely being absent of them. If you don't want to be generalized, then provide specifics.

[BenOswald]

^^ Can you guys get a room together or go to some other message boards to discuss politics?

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by mmarczi

You call yourself a leftist and yet you have something against the idea of an 'agenda' to correct imbalances in representation? That doesn't sound compatible at all. And you put yourself in the position of being generalized when you characterized a long list of films with social messages as largely being absent of them. If you don't want to be generalized, then provide specifics.

I don't like that the best films are not highlighted because we, as a society, feel the need to right (these specific) perceived wrongs. How many people of different ethnic backgrounds and different gender identification were nominated or not nominated for an Oscar is of zero interest to me.

Call Me By Your Name is my 2nd favorite movie from the last 10 years. I loved it because it is a good love story with great cinematography and acting. It was made well. Period. The fact that it is about a gay romance doesn't even move the needle for me. That is, I don't look at it differently than I would at anything else or any other love.

It's been said so many times by people of different ethnicities, gender, sexual orientation, etc, "I don't want to be considered a great female athlete/actor, whatever." "I want to be considered a great athlete. Period."

So why have an agenda that could place a qualifier on some film's or actor's nomination? That's unfortunate for the people who are doing truly great work.

[Sterling450]

Originally Posted by KMR

Is "Rest." supposed to mean "restoration"? I don't think all of these actually needed any restoration. Like Pariah from 2011! (For which Criterion doesn't mention anything about a restoration in their announcement anyway.)

Yes, it supposed to mean "restoration", which was not the ideal term, I probably should've used something different instead, sorry for that!