The Criterion Collection

[Professor Echo]

Wow, I had no idea I suffered from attention deficit disorder until the last couple pages of this thread convinced me.

Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat....

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

Good point. The same can be said for the Sweet Sweetback's Badassss Song re-issue in the Melvin Van Peebles box set too. Hard to imagine Criterion topping Vinegar Syndrome on that one even if they initially released it on laserdisc. Something critics of Criterion probably weren't even aware of.

They also released on laserdisc:

The Harder They Come
Boyz N the Hood
Menace II Society
She's Gotta Have It
Do the Right Thing
Dead Presidents

I don't think anyone has disputed Criterion's having done this. I think the issue was that it was a drop in the bucket. It was seven titles (adding Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song to the above) out of over 300 LDs. Which, one could argue, wasn't all that bad given the relative number of films by black filmmakers vs. white filmmakers. But as they added many, many more titles to their DVD and BD catalog, the disparity became more glaring.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

[Show spoiler]Thank you for your honesty. You should have simply stated that you believe citing the NYT's article is an issue, rather than citing the 'quality' of releases found at The Dollar Store.

That said, we all acknowledge that since the NYTs article, Criterion has made a transparent effort to release more films from Black filmmakers, so it is a challenge to remove that context even if not cited directly in a post.

My opinion is Criterion would have licensed these films, and others, for their streaming channel, and that some of the physical releases would not have happened if not for the NYT's article.

While you're certainly entitled to an opinion, if you choose to throw around the word 'delusional,' the problem with that is simply these films were released post-article, not prior, and that's a big part of the issue.

The best approach would be a selection of films from Black filmmakers that justifies the criticism Criterion received in the NYT's article.

What you want to be able to say is simply here are the films that deserve to be with the other films in the Collection solely on the merit of the film, while acknowledging that merit is subjective and can be difficult to determine.

[Show spoiler]If you're suggesting that the films themselves don't matter, well, there may be an element of truth to that statement if all you are concerned with is an increase in the number as a some kind of badge. Not only do I not believe its sustainable, I don't believe it serves the intended purpose, and introduces the risks I cited in my earlier posts.

Let me suggest that to use any criteria other than the merit of the film itself, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, religion, country of origin, sexual identity or any other label one chooses to use for the filmmaker, is artificial, diminishes the arbiter, and ultimately ends in failure.

Great films make themselves known, Criterion or no Criterion.

That first bit I left out of the spoiler is just meaningless. It's nothing more than an opinion trying to pass itself off as something more. The same can be said about the second part. Criterion has recently released more Czech films and films by women. When they make it their mission to release more Czech films no one says anything, but when it comes to black and women filmmakers, that's when the criticism of their inclusion comes out.

Did people look at Bull Durham and immediately say 'Oh, I can definitely see why Criterion chose this film?" I'm guessing no. I'm guessing the same could be said for The Princess Bride. Your entire point about "Great films make themselves known" is just drivel.

Originally Posted by cgpublic

[Show spoiler]I did, right here:

What is it that you, and others, don't understand about the above statement.

I could be wrong, but I think you, and others, understand perfectly what I stated in my first post.

It's just an opinion. You want to call it 'hot air,' be my guest.

You want to challenge the above statement, I'll respond with respect and honestly.

You want to infer something about my character or motivations, perhaps it's you who needs to get to the point, and my response will likewise be direct.

But until someone tells me that I'm mistaken, that Criterion releases titles all the time that have had a perfectly fine Blu selling at The Dollar Store for $1, which I'm sure someone would have mentioned by now, well, I don't know what to tell you, except it's time to move on.

Like I am.

And here, you keep bringing up this bit about Dollar Tree, and yet say it doesn't matter. So which is it? The two movies I previously mentioned, Bull Durham and The Princess Bride have had enough Blu-ray releases to show up at Dollar Tree, Dollar General, and Big Lots.

[BaronVH]

Originally Posted by Reddington

I see that SC is releasing a 4K of Ran:

To actually talk about movies, I saw this as well. I was a little surprised that it took as long as it did with the theatrical release years ago. I wonder how the color grading is? Also, it is not being released as a BD, which lends to speculation of it ending up in a box set by Criterion. The Criterion DVD gives the current BD a run for its money, and this is one of my most anticipated Criterion re-acquisitions. And, thanks to Criterion’s policy of releasing diverse films, I now have the opinion that High and Low is my favorite film by Kurosawa.

[HipsterTrash]

Originally Posted by jayembee

They also released on laserdisc:

The Harder They Come
Boyz N the Hood
Menace II Society
She's Gotta Have It
Do the Right Thing
Dead Presidents

They released Dead Presidents on laserdisc yet we don't have a blu-ray of it yet?

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

To actually talk about movies, I saw this as well. I was a little surprised that it took as long as it did with the theatrical release years ago. I wonder how the color grading is? Also, it is not being released as a BD, which lends to speculation of it ending up in a box set by Criterion. The Criterion DVD gives the current BD a run for its money, and this is one of my most anticipated Criterion re-acquisitions. And, thanks to Criterion’s policy of releasing diverse films, I now have the opinion that High and Low is my favorite film by Kurosawa.

That's a UK release. It was already released on BD by SC overseas several years back, and the color grading of the UHD will undoubtedly match that. To date, there has been no BD or UHD of the restoration released in the US, or planned. It's been rumored of course that Criterion has it back, but there's been no indication of that other than perhaps the time Janus or Criterion posted storyboard drawings that Kurosawa did for the movie on their Twitter.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by HipsterTrash

They released Dead Presidents on laserdisc yet we don't have a blu-ray of it yet?

Talk to the Mouse...

[omgitsgodzilla]

Having just recently seen Ran, I'd definitely pick up a Criterion disc if one came out. I just hope they'd be allowed to do some color correction on it first.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by Reddington

I see that SC is releasing a 4K of Ran:

I have the previous 4K Restoration release. As great as that looks it has a bit too much teal. I want to see if they dialed it back a bit.

[dvining]

So, Ran's release from Studio Canal in the UK seems to mirror Nights of Cabiria's release before the announcement of the Fellini box set...

Just sayin'...

[CMNPlanet]

Piece in The Hollywood Reporter on Dee Rees and Criterion (although it reads more like a Rees bio than additional discussion based off last year's NYT piece).

Also:

...but Rees asked them to consider Pariah (Criterion will release Mudbound in the fall).

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by CMNPlanet

Piece in The Hollywood Reporter on Dee Rees and Criterion (although it reads more like a Rees bio than additional discussion based off last year's NYT piece).

Also:

Excellent news! Interesting that Criterion initially just wanted Mudbound, but Rees suggested they do Pariah first.

edit: I just remembered I had emailed Criterion last year to request Mudbound.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Excellent news! Interesting that Criterion initially just wanted Mudbound, but Rees suggested they do Pariah first.

edit: I just remembered I had emailed Criterion last year to request Mudbound.

But they’re also releasing Mudbound in the fall! I’m so happy! My girlfriend and I saw that in theaters and were so enamored! I’m happy both are getting a release!

[jshaide]

Originally Posted by dvining

So, Ran's release from Studio Canal in the UK seems to mirror Nights of Cabiria's release before the announcement of the Fellini box set...

Just sayin'...

Would be so tight to get an AK box just in time for Xmas.

I'd have so much free shelf space knocking out the standalones too. . .

[dkelly26666]

By the way for anyone wondering about the language soundtrack for "The Damned", I emailed Criterion and they confirmed the primary soundtrack will be Visconti's preferred English soundtrack. The Italian dub will be an alternate soundtrack.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

What is it that you, and others, don't understand about the above statement.

I could be wrong, but I think you, and others, understand perfectly what I stated in my first post.

It's just an opinion. You want to call it 'hot air,' be my guest.

You want to challenge the above statement, I'll respond with respect and honestly.

You want to infer something about my character or motivations, perhaps it's you who needs to get to the point, and my response will likewise be direct.

But until someone tells me that I'm mistaken, that Criterion releases titles all the time that have had a perfectly fine Blu selling at The Dollar Store for $1, which I'm sure someone would have mentioned by now, well, I don't know what to tell you, except it's time to move on.

Like I am.

It has already been pointed out to you that lots of quality films with perfectly fine blu-rays have been sold at discounted prices in dollar stores or dump bins and have subsequently been released by Criterion (and/or other boutique labels).

So what about that don't you understand?

Just because the Warner release of Love & Basketball (or any other title for that matter) is being sold as overstock, does not mean that there is no justification for Criterion releasing the title as well. Criterion have a different business model and mandate with respect to the films it releases compared to the major studios and if they've selected a film that they see as worthy of inclusion in their collection, they're not going to bargain hunt to see if some other release can be had cheaper. And if simple commercial viability were a deciding factor, we wouldn't see half of the arthouse, foreign or indie films that they release.

[jshaide]

Extras and the shorts on the L&B disc also make it an appealing edition.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by HipsterTrash

They released Dead Presidents on laserdisc yet we don't have a blu-ray of it yet?

Yeah, Dead Presidents on Blu-ray is long overdue.

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by bergman864

That first bit I left out of the spoiler is just meaningless. It's nothing more than an opinion trying to pass itself off as something more. The same can be said about the second part. Criterion has recently released more Czech films and films by women. When they make it their mission to release more Czech films no one says anything, but when it comes to black and women filmmakers, that's when the criticism of their inclusion comes out.

Did people look at Bull Durham and immediately say 'Oh, I can definitely see why Criterion chose this film?" I'm guessing no. I'm guessing the same could be said for The Princess Bride.

Are you suggesting that people haven't questioned a number of films directed by white male directors, including Bull Durham, The Princess Bride, The Breakfast Club, Moonstuck and others along with specific directors such as Wes Anderson for release by Criterion, asking the same question, why is Criterion releasing these films when a perfectly adequate Blu-ray film is presently or was recently available?

Are you kidding?

Of course they did. What you seem to be suggesting is that people will not/should not hold such films to the same standard or that certain films should be free of the same criticism.

Which is it? Sure, some won't hold certain films to the same standard, for whatever reason, but not all.

All I'm stating is simply that a potential optics issue exists, and your posts are either stating that it's not, or it is, but no one should acknowledge the issue, going as far to state that posters shouldn't cite the NYT's article.

Originally Posted by bergman864

Your entire point about "Great films make themselves known" is just drivel.

Really? I'm not sure of your age, but there was a time before Criterion and the internet, and yes, great films made themselves known. It may not be part of your personal experience, but that's a fact.

In my opinion, statements such as these do absolutely nothing to support your argument.

Originally Posted by bergman864

And here, you keep bringing up this bit about Dollar Tree, and yet say it doesn't matter. So which is it? The two movies I previously mentioned, Bull Durham and The Princess Bride have had enough Blu-ray releases to show up at Dollar Tree, Dollar General, and Big Lots.

Many people have questioned both of the above Criterion releases.

If you actually read my posts with any degree of comprehension, you would realize all I'm stating is simply selecting a film with a perfectly fine Blu-ray release that was recently available from The Dollar Store would invite criticism, which it has with some segments based upon a quick review of Twitter and like sources.

The gestalt of your posts is simply everyone who questions such a release must have an agenda different than those who questioned many other Criterion releases.

I completely agree that some people are critical of Criterion for releasing films from Black filmmakers, but not all, and there is a middle ground for discussion about Love and Basketball, just as there is for Bull Durham, The Princess Bride and every other film which is part of or under consideration by Criterion.

If you, and others, believe there should be one standard for a specific group of films, and a different standard for another, all based on race or whatever other label you choose, that's your choice. My advice is that you should come right and say so, then let the chips fall where they may.

But to suggest that such an approach, right or wrong, won't invite criticism and potential consequences is simply not a reflection of my personal experience.

No more, no less.

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

It has already been pointed out to you that lots of quality films with perfectly fine blu-rays have been sold at discounted prices in dollar stores or dump bins and have subsequently been released by Criterion (and/or other boutique labels).

So what about that don't you understand?

Sure, and such films when announced have been met with criticism from those wondering why Criterion is releasing this film when so many other films don't have a release, which is a legitimate question.

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Just because the Warner release of Love & Basketball (or any other title for that matter) is being sold as overstock, does not mean that there is no justification for Criterion releasing the title as well. Criterion have a different business model and mandate with respect to the films it releases compared to the major studios and if they've selected a film that they see as worthy of inclusion in their collection, they're not going to bargain hunt to see if some other release can be had cheaper. And if simple commercial viability were a deciding factor, we wouldn't see half of the arthouse, foreign or indie films that they release.

Sure, but don't you believe that films which are not available on Blu-ray, or for that matter, not available from Netlfix, represent better opportunities for Criterion and would invite less criticism?

Not to put too fine a point on it, that's the way it's always been with Criterion. The Criterion audience has always sought out and requested films that they could not see or purchase elsewhere.

And that's the issue, not for me personally, but for the Criterion audience based on the past behavior of some, but not all, of their audience.

Some people have been fine with Criterion releasing Moonstuck, and others not so much.

Are you telling me something different?

Furthermore, what would make you believe that that dynamic would be different for Love and Basketball?

That's the question.