The Criterion Collection

[The Coconut God]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

If you actually read my posts with any degree of comprehension, you would realize all I'm stating is simply selecting a film with a perfectly fine Blu-ray release that was recently available from The Dollar Store would invite criticism, which it has some segments based upon a quick review of Twitter and the like sources, and gestalt of your posts is simply everyone who questions such a release must have an agenda different than those who questioned many other Criterion releases.

You are forgetting that Criterion also has a UK branch, which many Europeans still prefer to buy from even after Brexit. This film only ever had a Blu-ray release in the US.

Also, the commercial viability of the title has as much to do with costs as with sales. Much like Wes Anderson, whom you mentioned, Gnia Prince-Bythewood actively wanted her film (and films by Black creators in general) to be represented in the Collection, so it's likely that she would have made it as easy as possible for them in terms of rights acquisition and help with the special features. It's not like releasing this title cost them as much as restoring a pre-code title in-house or something like that.

[bwdowiak]

Love and Basketball is a film that I've definitely heard of, but never got around to seeing it. It looks like a good film. Thank you, Criterion, for bringing it back to my attention. I'll be buying the previous release for $5 on eBay when that opportunity presents itself.

[SleazyForWeasley]

Originally Posted by bergman864

I'm sure when Me and You and Everyone We Know and Hedwig and the Angry Inch were announced preorders went through the roof, right?

Both of those films had never received a Blu-ray release prior to Criterion's. I'm not sure if your comment is sarcasm, implying that no one was asking for these releases, because I sure as hell was.

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by The Coconut God

You are forgetting that Criterion also has a UK branch, which many Europeans still prefer to buy from even after Brexit. This film only ever had a Blu-ray release in the US.

That's a good point, and certainly a plus for those in the UK.

Originally Posted by The Coconut God

Also, the commercial viability of the title has as much to do with costs as with sales. Much like Wes Anderson, whom you mentioned, Gnia Prince-Bythewood actively wanted her film (and films by Black creators in general) to be represented in the Collection, so it's likely that she would have made it as easy as possible for them in terms of rights acquisition and help with the special features. It's not like releasing this title cost them as much as restoring a pre-code title in-house or something like that.

I'm sure she did, and in all honestly, her comments about Criterion and about wanting to be part of the Collection in the NYT's article struck me as the most honest and heartfelt of those interviewed, so I am happy for her and for those fans of the film.

Don't get me wrong. I like Love & Basketball. It's obviously a very personal film with a great deal of charm, and to be clear, other than the fact it was widely available with a very good release which I correctly anticipated would be problematic for some, I have no issues whatsoever about the film as part of the Collection.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by dvining

If there's one thing to get from Disney, it's Zardoz.



(I assume it's with Disney since it was originally a Fox release.)

This needs a 4K release! Also, Frances McDormand mentioned on the Roger Deakins podcast that she’s a fan of this movie!

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by SleazyForWeasley

Both of those films had never received a Blu-ray release prior to Criterion's. I'm not sure if your comment is sarcasm, implying that no one was asking for these releases, because I sure as hell was.

We all our lists of favorites we want to get Blu-ray releases, be that Criterion or otherwise. My point was that neither title were so big or so popular people were asking for them in the same way as Mirror or Bringing Up Baby.

I felt the same way about Deep Cover. I'm sure the same could be said for a film like The Daytrippers.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

That's a good point, and certainly a plus for those in the UK.

I'm sure she did, and in all honestly, her comments about Criterion and about wanting to be part of the Collection in the NYT's article struck me as the most honest and heartfelt of those interviewed, so I am happy for her and for those fans of the film.

Don't get me wrong. I like Love & Basketball. It's obviously a very personal film with a great deal of charm, and to be clear, other than the fact it was widely available with a very good release which I correctly anticipated would be problematic for some, I have no issues whatsoever about the film as part of the Collection.

Is this what your posts boil down to? Because it doesn't seem like "very good release" is the reason people are questioning its inclusion.

You yourself spent more time talking about the NYT article than the previous Blu-ray release.

[HipsterTrash]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

This needs a 4K release! Also, Frances McDormand mentioned on the Roger Deakins podcast that she’s a fan of this movie!

And someone else brought it up recently too! Maybe even another person too. Can't remember if it was Lee Smith or whoever.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by HipsterTrash

And someone else brought it up recently too! Maybe even another person too. Can't remember if it was Lee Smith or whoever.

Nice! I haven’t listened that one yet.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by jayembee

They also released on laserdisc:

The Harder They Come
Boyz N the Hood
Menace II Society
She's Gotta Have It
Do the Right Thing
Dead Presidents

I don't think anyone has disputed Criterion's having done this. I think the issue was that it was a drop in the bucket. It was seven titles (adding Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song to the above) out of over 300 LDs. Which, one could argue, wasn't all that bad given the relative number of films by black filmmakers vs. white filmmakers. But as they added many, many more titles to their DVD and BD catalog, the disparity became more glaring.

The list did expand in the DVD/Blu-ray era even as studios they had used may have stopped licensing because of good sales. They added during this time Oscar Micheaux and Charles Burnett. They also added films by Steve McQueen, Euzhan Palcy, Ousmane Sembene, and Djibril Diop Mambety, all of whom were not born in America.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Sure, and such films when announced have been met with criticism from those wondering why Criterion is releasing this film when so many other films don't have a release, which is a legitimate question.

Sure, but don't you believe that films which are not available on Blu-ray, or for that matter, not available from Netlfix, represent better opportunities for Criterion and would invite less criticism?

Not to put too fine a point on it, that's the way it's always been with Criterion. The Criterion audience has always sought out and requested films that they could not see or purchase elsewhere.

And that's the issue, not for me personally, but for the Criterion audience based on the past behavior of some, but not all, of their audience.

Some people have been fine with Criterion releasing Moonstuck, and others not so much.

Are you telling me something different?

Furthermore, what would make you believe that that dynamic would be different for Love and Basketball?

That's the question.

Why do you keep talking about "some people" and "the Criterion audience" like you're not a part of either?

Yes, when Criterion releases a title that has been released on blu-ray before, some people say they're fine with the previous release, or they'll only upgrade if there is a remaster, while others will be all over it because they only find something worthy of purchase with that "C" on the label.

But you're the one that's been posting these diatribes about Love & Basketball specifically and invoking the new efforts at diversity on Criterion's part, implying that there is some sort of funny business going on with them releasing it by saying things like: "If the answer is releasing Love and Basketball, honestly, they have a problem and then being disingenuous when others point out that there seems to be more to this argument on your part than the fact that someone bought it for a buck in a dollar store.

If you had made similar posts about Moonstruck or Some Like It Hot, I might be willing to buy what you're trying to sell me now.

Criterion releasing Love & Basketball is no more of a financial risk than any of the other arthouse or foreign titles they've released, and it's certainly not going to harm their brand by doing so either.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

The list did expand in the DVD/Blu-ray era even as studios they had used may have stopped licensing because of good sales. They added during this time Oscar Micheaux and Charles Burnett. They also added films by Steve McQueen, Euzhan Palcy, Ousmane Sembene, and Djibril Diop Mambety, all of whom were not born in America.

Criterion has less than 15 (the exact number escapes me) releases from black and African filmmakers in the DVD & Blu-ray days. That's out of over 1000 total releases.

There's no way you can't see the problem here. No one (I hope) is asking every release to be by a black filmmaker, or even a black filmmaker every month. But they should average more than 1 per year.

[SleazyForWeasley]

Yeah, it's definitely not a financial risk. Criterion will sell what they sell and if they need to repress it they will. Otherwise it will be available for a long, long time. It'll be a great addition for collectors, and for casual fans who don't want to spend $20-$40 on one movie they'll have the non-Criterion release.

[CRASHLANDING]

Well, there was one productive outcome from all this recent discussion...I finally learned how to use the "ignore" list on blu-ray.com.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

Well, there was one productive outcome from all this recent discussion...I finally learned how to use the "ignore" list on blu-ray.com.

I'm not sure it's possible to be on the site without using it for some people

Originally Posted by bergman864

Criterion has less than 15 (the exact number escapes me) releases from black and African filmmakers in the DVD & Blu-ray days. That's out of over 1000 total releases.

There's no way you can't see the problem here. No one (I hope) is asking every release to be by a black filmmaker, or even a black filmmaker every month. But they should average more than 1 per year.

On that note, I can't wait to get the StudioCanal release of Mandabi later this month. I'd love to see more Sembène released or books translated.

I have no objection to having 1 or 2 Black filmmakers a month, so long as they also continue their greater representation of female filmmakers and queer cinema too. The Channel allows them to showcase more diverse cinema than what they're able to release on discs because of rights.

BTW, I speculated on how viable the choices from the NYT article are back in October

https://twitter.com/asexualflower/st...488546819?s=20

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

Well, there was one productive outcome from all this recent discussion...I finally learned how to use the "ignore" list on blu-ray.com.

that's too bad for you because while you may not agree with his posts, he presented his argument with respect and thoughtfulness.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

that's too bad for you because while you may not agree with his posts, he presented his argument with respect and thoughtfulness.

In addition to communicating in a way that seems profound and significant, but is, in reality, vague and meaningless.

Endlessly repeating yourself does not necessarily make your position or perspective valid. Make your statement once, maybe twice, and then leave it out there and let it speak for itself. Constantly explaining, clarifying, defending, whatever, ultimately weakens everything you have been trying to communicate.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

I'm not sure it's possible to be on the site without using it for some people



On that note, I can't wait to get the StudioCanal release of Mandabi later this month. I'd love to see more Sembène released or books translated.

I have no objection to having 1 or 2 Black filmmakers a month, so long as they also continue their greater representation of female filmmakers and queer cinema too. The Channel allows them to showcase more diverse cinema than what they're able to release on discs because of rights.

BTW, I speculated on how viable the choices from the NYT article are back in October

https://twitter.com/asexualflower/st...488546819?s=20

Criterion has always been about bring lesser known films to light. They've made strides with women representation and I hope they do the same with Queer representation.

I think Criterion is in a unique position to change the narrative on some films. Not every film we celebrate in the collection were held in the highest regard at the time of their inclusion.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

that's too bad for you because while you may not agree with his posts, he presented his argument with respect and thoughtfulness.

I agree the conversation was generally polite and respectful by all parties (indeed, more so than many exchanges here in the forums). But after the first few times back and forth, it had devolved into a rather robotic repetition of the same points that went on for several pages. That's really when I lost interest in continuing to see the posts. I wasn't offended by anyone's viewpoints, just tired of hearing them over and over.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by bergman864

Criterion has always been about bring lesser known films to light. They've made strides with women representation and I hope they do the same with Queer representation.

I think Criterion is in a unique position to change the narrative on some films. Not every film we celebrate in the collection were held in the highest regard at the time of their inclusion.

I totally agree with all of this! I don't think there was a NYT article about female filmmakers, but they've definitely made more strives for inclusion over the past few years. I'm thankful they exist.

It's probably natural (canonisation depends upon a film's availability), but what's mentioned in the Hollywood Reporter article, feels like somewhat of a burden but perhaps Criterion didn't realise in the 80s. That they will come to define the film landscape, in addition being a resource for film fans, students, teachers. And I'm not sure other labels have that burden of canonisation, perhaps because they haven't been as around as long or seem so legendary with 1000+ films and a streaming service. I think having your film join Criterion should be a mark of hour, but I also think the same should be true of other labels. If someone chose to only watch Criterion films, they would have a good overview of film history, but still quite a few blindspots.

I do think projects e.g. World Cinema Project can be somewhat of a corrective in exploring different national cinemas than only the US, UK, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Japan etc. I'm confident there are other national cinemas not represented, or only with a sole example.

And yes, it's good when Criterion can be ahead of the curve.