The Criterion Collection

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

And please tell me where I can go buy new SACDs.

Seriously?

https://www.amazon.com/CDs-Vinyl-SAC...09&ref=sr_pg_1

https://elusivedisc.com/music/digital/sacd/

https://store.acousticsounds.com/ind...e&CategoryID=4

This literally took me 10 seconds.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by chris582

I only want them to release another Chaplin

Besides the First National shorts, what else is there for them to release that is Chaplin? Now, I would be in for a First National set

[bwdowiak]

I watched Edward Yang's The Terrorizers last night by way of this region A and English language friendly release that I'm a bit surprised is only in 21 collections on this site.



No surprise here, but it was a really good film. The film, released in 1986, weaves together the stories of several lives that intersect. Of course, this became fashionable after Pulp Fiction and while I doubt The Terrorizers was the first film to do this, I can imagine how QT may have been influenced by this film.

The point of The Terrorizers is a bit elusive until the final act, but Yang does more than enough to hold the viewer's interest; lovers of art house cinema and those with a little patience will definitely be rewarded by the film's finale.

The transfer on this particular release looked great and the subtitles seem to have been well translated.

Hopefully, Taipei Story will be released as a stand alone release. Yang's profile is too high to have had it released as part of that particular box set.

[BaronVH]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

Seriously?

https://www.amazon.com/CDs-Vinyl-SAC...09&ref=sr_pg_1

https://elusivedisc.com/music/digital/sacd/

https://store.acousticsounds.com/ind...e&CategoryID=4

This literally took me 10 seconds.

I am familiar with purchasing SACDs. The Amazon link is used or unavailable disks. The third is two pages of titles. Actually discogs is a better source, but it is a dead format. I wish it wasn’t. Most of those titles that pop up I already own. Dark Side of the Moon, Wish Your Were Here, and I have others that are long since OOP. Find Abbey Road in 5.1 that is not in a boxed set. Or a complete Wagner opera in 5.1 that is not used or an import. The best place to find them are sifting through stacks at used record stores in large cities, and even then they are picked over.

Edit: That second link had a good version of Das Rhiengold, so I thank you for that. When hunting you need two things: to be in the right place and have a good guide. So thanks!

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

I am familiar with purchasing SACDs. The Amazon link is used or unavailable disks. The third is two pages of titles. Actually discogs is a better source, but it is a dead format. I wish it wasn’t. Most of those titles that pop up I already own. Dark Side of the Moon, Wish Your Were Here, and I have others that are long since OOP. Find Abbey Road in 5.1 that is not in a boxed set. Or a complete Wagner opera in 5.1 that is not used or an import. The best place to find them are sifting through stacks at used record stores in large cities, and even then they are picked over.

Edit: That second link had a good version of Das Rhiengold, so I thank you for that. When hunting you need two things: to be in the right place and have a good guide. So thanks!

Abbey Road is now available in lossless Atmos on Apple Music. While it’s not quite the same as owning the disc, it’s pretty stunning. (I’m not sure if the Atmos mix is available for digital purchase, though at least you can get it lossless and DRM free on some of the major services.)

Glad to help with the Das Rhiengold!

[BaronVH]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

Abbey Road is now available in lossless Atmos on Apple Music. While it’s not quite the same as owning the disc, it’s pretty stunning. (I’m not sure if the Atmos mix is available for digital purchase, though at least you can get it lossless and DRM free on some of the major services.)

Glad to help with the Das Rhiengold!

I have Abbey Road in Atmos in 5.1 from the boxed set. Also the White Album. The bottom line is that it takes a lot of work, effort, and luck to get the best in music at home. Of course, the music industry screwed everything up for themselves, and look at it now. All this to say that the movie industry has been watching and learning from their mistakes. That was why copy protection was such a big deal early on. The problem is that is seems the theater owners and studios just can’t seem to get along, and, as has been mentioned, the public like convenience over quality. To get back to topic, Criterion has done a wonderful service over the years keeping their types of films available for the customer that prefers physical disks. Many people that come to this site are apprehensive that streaming is going to be the only game in town, and that is a shame. During a quarantine my entertainment was 95% disk and 5% streaming. And even though it says 4K streaming, a standard blu-ray is better. So this is one person hoping that Criterion gets to continue to do what they do for many, many years.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by BaronVH

So this is one person hoping that Criterion gets to continue to do what they do for many, many years.

I hope so too. I enjoy streaming, especially for discovering all sorts of stuff, but I would like to own discs for a good long time to come. Disc-based entertainment will continue to have superior quality for awhile, though I’m watching what happens with Sony’s new Braavia service, which basically is going to stream at the same bitrate as 4k disc. The only answer to that will be a disc format that delivers uncompressed video or a truly lossless disc-based compression scheme. We’ll see what happens.

Still, I love me my discs.

[Namuhana]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Besides the First National shorts, what else is there for them to release that is Chaplin? Now, I would be in for a First National set

A Woman of Paris.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by Namuhana

A Woman of Paris.

That's a film directed by Chaplin but is not really a Chaplin film as he only has an uncredited cameo in it. However, it's always possible Criterion is releasing it but I would think the First National Shorts would be a safer release.

[Member-682067]

Really cannot wait until "The Man Who Wasn't There" gets a release date.

[Cholly]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Besides the First National shorts, what else is there for them to release that is Chaplin? Now, I would be in for a First National set

A King In New York and the Revue (was a Woman of Paris a part of that or was it separate?).

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by Cholly

A King In New York and the Revue (was a Woman of Paris a part of that or was it separate?).

Forgot about A King In New York which does star Chaplin though I can't remember who has the rights to that one. Wasn't The Revue just a collection of Chaplin First National shorts?

[Rayjg]

Too bad Chaplin burned the negative, and his widow the only print, of The Woman and the Sea.

[mmarczi]

Originally Posted by BluLobsta

You can get most Ozu releases with 4K scans on Amazon Japan, but they will be MUCH more expensive obviously, than say picking up the Eclipse set. I did this with Late Spring. What a beautiful release (and the film ain’t bad either ) The booklet is beautiful but you have to read it back to front and be fluent in Japanese. I know hiragana, katakana and some common Kanji but I’m lost trying to read it I love Criterion and try to be loyal when I can. An Ozu set would be awesome! They may even have an Ozu set on Amazon Japan but I can’t remember.

Thanks. I have briefly looked into some Japanese options, maybe I'll take a second look some day. I have purchased (even double-dipped for original audio) on BFI's Ozu titles? Including Equinox Flower and Early Summer, which are still stuck on DVD with Criterion. But I'd likely buy them yet again if Criterion puts them out with solid extras.

[nabelnabel]

I'm sure this has been discussed already many pages back so forgive me but can anyone give me a rundown as to why I see so many people expecting Citizen Kane? I would think whoever has the rights to that wouldn't license it in a million years. Has it been confirmed their working on it or have the rights in some way?

[Cholly]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Forgot about A King In New York which does star Chaplin though I can't remember who has the rights to that one. Wasn't The Revue just a collection of Chaplin First National shorts?

A King In New York was owned by the same folks as all the other films Criterion licensed from. The Revue was a couple of short features as well as a couple of shorts. It was ones like A Dogs Life and Shoulder Arms, the ones that are 30-45 minutes. I believe it was Chaplin himself who compiled it together.

[mmarczi]

Originally Posted by nabelnabel

I'm sure this has been discussed already many pages back so forgive me but can anyone give me a rundown as to why I see so many people expecting Citizen Kane? I would think whoever has the rights to that wouldn't license it in a million years. Has it been confirmed their working on it or have the rights in some way?

https://www.wellesnet.com/citizen-kane-80th-blu-ray/

The 80th anniversary of Orson Welles’ Citizen Kane is upon us, and while there has been no official word of a commemorative Blu-ray set, a release with extras is now in the works.

The Criterion Collection is famously quiet about discussing its future plans, but a June 16 posting on the independent Criterion Forum gave the first indication that a new release is in production.

“In a Zoom lecture tonight, Jonathan Rosenbaum mentioned that he is planning to record a commentary track on Citizen Kane with James Naremore,” posted ianthemovie. “He didn’t specify whether it was for Criterion, but it’s worth noting that they both recorded a joint commentary for Criterion’s version of Magnificent Ambersons (in 2018).”

Separate sources confirmed to Wellesnet today that the set is in the offing, though a release date has not been set nor is there word of whether there will be a 4K UHD release.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by rooprect

Why Criterion will never go to 4k

Let's think about this from Criterion's point of view. What would happen if they start releasing 4k discs, even just a few? The first thing that would happen, I guarantee you, is that people would stop buying their regular 1080p discs in anticipation of 4k, and their DVD stock would become worthless.

[Show spoiler]We saw it to a certain degree with 1080p over DVD. Everyone stopped buying DVD and Laserdisc went byebye. Overnight, all those DVDs we spent hundreds on became ebay bargain feed. Remember how frustrating that was, as consumers, for our expensive collection to become worthless ovenight? Now consider this from the business's perspective. Warehouses of the stuff, blu-rays & DVDs, bound for the next barge to Overstock dot com. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say the losses would amount to a few million, literally within 1 business quarter.

In order to overcome that business-model killer, there would need to be an OVERWHELMING shift in demand from 1080p to 4k. And when I say 'overwhelming' I mean of the same magnitude of DVD shifting to blu-ray (which still isn't complete since Criterion still sells DVDs at high prices).

Below this point is speculation:

I personally don't believe 4k will ever have that sort of universal surge. It isn't just a cost issue (4k tvs, 4k players) but it's the fact that the public--the average human eye--is happy with 1080p.

My expertise is audio engineering, and I've been working since the days of cassette tapes. A similar progress/evolution happened in the audio world and maxed out in the 1990s with CD quality (16 bit, 44.1kHz). CD quality is laughably horrible compared to what technology currently offers (32 bit, 384kHz). But CD remains the consumer standard 30 years later, and most audiophiles have accepted that consumer audio (digital) aint getting another upgrade in our lifetimes. Around the 2000s, record labels flirted with DVDa (24 bit, 96kHz) releases for the consumer market. Didn't go well. Sure, audiophiles lapped it up, but planet earth at large was happy with CD.

More disturbingly, planet earth at large has subsequently lowered its standards to mp3 quality, marking the clear intersection of size/portability vs quality where demand rests. This left the DVDa crowd hanging, eternally. To a lesser degree, I think this is what will happen with 4k. It won't go obsolete like DVDa, but I think it will remain limited to new films which are already shot in digital so 4k is a no brainer. Older films which require transfers and extensive restoration just aren't worth the trouble.

Criterion can't just flip a switch and convert their entire library to 4k. In most cases, they would have to fly back to Zurich or whatever obscure film archive holds the sole remaining prints, and they would have to re-scan everything in at least 8k so that the restoration process can have some headroom to deal with--and yes it would have to be RE-restored. What does every Criterion booklet say...? "Thousands of instances of dirt, scratches and damage were manually removed..."

AND THEY'D HAVE TO DO IT ALL AGAIN?

My friends, nobody would love to see these classics in 4k as much as me, but... dude... it would be the dumbest business move ever; Criterion would go bankrupt within 2 years, and none of us want that.

I read a lot of responses to your take on this and I found myself nodding my head to a lot of varying views.

The challenge I think, at least for the Criterion Collection, is what titles out of the over 1,100 films in their catalog would make the cut for a 4K upgrade?

It would be rather difficult to choose maybe 20 or 30 premiere best selling Criterion titles for 4K upgrades but leave the other 1,000+ titles out of the running.

From a business and marketing viewpoint, how would Criterion determine which titles would make more revenue for them? Would they choose popular directors and famous films over obscure foreign directors and films? I would imagine so.

Like some others have said, in order to move forward (or "progress"), one has to look at the competition and realize that many other companies are releasing 4K UHD discs now.

And with Criterion already inferring to a soon to be released 4K title either before the year ends or in 2022, it already appears they are going to move ahead with this decision.

Furthermore, I could also see Criterion releasing a "Dual Format" release like they did with the DVD and Blu-rays at one time, except this time it would be a Blu-ray and a UHD Blu-ray as 2nd editions for several titles.

Perhaps if the double disc releases sell well, it will be a new trend. Or maybe they'll even go one step further and have a "Triple Format" release with the DVD, Blu-ray, and UHD Blu-ray in one release.

After all, three's a crowd.

[wobelix]

Originally Posted by jw007

I read a lot of responses to your take on this and I found myself nodding my head to a lot of varying views.

The challenge I think, at least for the Criterion Collection, is what titles out of the over 1,100 films in their catalog would make the cut for a 4K upgrade?

It would be rather difficult to choose maybe 20 or 30 premiere best selling Criterion titles for 4K upgrades but leave the other 1,000+ titles out of the running.

These are dark times for the arts, I know, but there is one way of mining the business and that is to get help from countries / governments.

That's something to tickle the market, maybe?

For instance, my own country does not do much with our filmic heritage. Why?
Well, partly because our last couple of governments call art & culture 'hobbies'...
And act accordingly.

And maybe, who knows, we lack the expertise to restore a film, upgrade it, and do whatever necessary to preserve our classics and get them to our homes, be it on disc or digitally.

But Criterion has all that knowledge in abundance.

Why not find ways to work with countries to release series of, let's say, ten defining works?
For countries like the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Portugal, and the like, that would be enough.
Ireland, Poland, Hungary, Czecheslowakia probably need about 25. Russia 50.

I have not seen fully restored 4K UHD's from Scandinavia or Germany or Greece or Canada? (or wasn't I paying enough attention?)

Where are the 4K UHD's of the Grand Masters like Fellini, Tarkovsky, Bergman, Wenders, Antonioni, Kaurismäki, Fassbinder, but also Arcand, Wajda, Menzel, Angelopoulos or de Oliveira?

What if 'we' can tickle our governments to help preserve our heritage?
It ought to be a task of one's country, anyways.
And a partner like Criterion could help majestically with that...

[ShellOilJunior]

re: Kane on UHD

I believe yoloswegmaster's scoop is accurate. At the same time, I don't think WB will relinquish total UHD rights to Criterion. This is what I think might happen:

WB issues Kane on UHD in a package which is essentially the excellent 70th anniversary blu-ray + the new UHD. Cost: about $25. If all you want is Kane and don't need the "C" on the front, it's a good option.

Criterion receives permission to issue Kane on UHD as part of a Welles box set. The set would include F for Fake (New 4K transfer), Arkadin (New blu-ray), and existing blu-rays (Chimes, Othello, Immortal Story). Kane, Ambersons, and The Other Side of the Wind would be on UHD.

Criterion would then release films from this set individually similar to how the Bergman films trickled out each month.