The Criterion Collection

[M A]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Has Toho released them in Japan yet?

Where can I find info on The Hidden Fortess, Throne of Blood, and others that got a 4K scan by the way? Couldn't find anything about that when I googled it.

Seven Samurai and Ikiru, Kagemusha, The Hidden Fortress, Throne of Blood, Yojimbo and Sanjuro. They are all in Japanese but they all do say that they were restored in 4K.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by M A

Seven Samurai and Ikiru, Kagemusha, The Hidden Fortress, Throne of Blood, Yojimbo and Sanjuro. They are all in Japanese but they all do say that they were restored in 4K.

Thanks. I know about Seven Samurai getting a 4K restoration, and High and Low, Ikiru, and Rashomon's Criterion releases were from 4K scans (though some with just 2K restorations), but couldn't find much about the others, specifically Hidden Fortress, which is my favorite.

I do wonder how good these 4K restorations are? The links just say digitally remastered, so it would be great to know the extent of the restorations. Someone at reddit made a really good point about Toho and their restoration work as far as actual 4K releases go:

I wish there was a way this could be explained every time, as it's a (totally fair) frequently asked question. the issue with Kurosawa is that the vast, overwhelming majority of his films are held by Toho in Japan. Toho is easily the slowest of all the Japanese studios in terms of restoration and preservation of their catalog - think how Warner used to be up until a decade ago where they picked up their game, both themselves and licensing to Criterion, Shout, etc. Toho was known to have a rule that no other company could release their films on Bluray until they did so in Japan first, and this proved to be true in most cases. now as many know, it's easy to just slap a DVD "high definition" master on Bluray, even though it won't look nearly as good. Criterion have done this a few times with Toho titles, notably Woman in the Dunes, which looked good but wasn't as astounding of an upgrade as one would hope for. so basically everything is at the mercy of Toho when it comes to Seven Samurai, High and Low, etc. 4K UHD discs can't take 1080p remaster and be slapped on a disc as an upscale, the outrage would be beyond ridiculous. to do a good 4K title you need not only a 4K restoration, but also a dolby vision capable scan, which is something people forget on here when they assume any 4K restored movie is going to be good to go for a 4K disc. the Red Shoes exhibited how they have to go back and get that HDR pass, which is the true upgrade on a 4K disc, not the resolution. anyway, Toho is also infamous for incidents with the Godzilla box and I believe MST3K fans can attest to other issues too.

the other Japanese studios like Shochiku, Kadokawa, and Nikkatsu are so much better at doing 4K restorations of their films and so Rashomon (Kadokawa), The Quiet Duel (Kadokawa), Scandal (Shochiku), the Idiot (Shochiku), and Rhapsody in August (Shochiku) are better bets from the Japanese themselves. and of those films, only Rashomon would be most likely viable for a UHD...the other aren't big enough titles to justify the costs I'm sure.

but on the upside, the following are with non-Japanese studios: Dersu Uzala (Mosfilm) Kagemusha (Fox/Disney) Ran (Studiocanal) Dreams (Warner Brothers)

I'm sure Lionsgate will be keeping the rights to Ran in the US, so that's out. Dersu Uzala is currently being restored by Mosfilm (apparently was in rough shape, but I'm sure the end result will be good), so hopefully when that comes it'll suffice for a 4K master. the best bets for Criterion in the near term are Kagemusha and Dreams. Kagemusha was the first Kurosawa title they released on Bluray, and though I know this subreddit loves to say they can't work with Fox/Disney anymore, there's no reason to believe this is the case, and I'm sure that if Criterion were to upgrade their Fox titles to UHD, Kagemusha would be at the very top of the queue. we'd just have to see what restoration work would be needed. Dreams should be ready to go off the shelf from WB though, the Criterion bluray already came from a 4K scan of the original negative (WB does an amazing job of preservation - see the Warner Archive line), so basically all Criterion would have to do with WB is a 4K scan with an HDR pass, and Dreams would be ready to go. personally I believe this would be the first Kurosawa title to get the 4K bump. I know everyone wants Seven Samurai and the bigger 50s/60s titles, but aside from Rashomon there's no realistic timeline at all on those and I wish people would realize that. fans of Naruse, Kon Ichikawa, etc like myself are waiting for bluray upgrades of films by those directors, let alone 4K releases. hell, I'm confident Criterion would release a "Complete Ozu" box (almost all films were released by Shochiku, and all films after 1949 have received 4K restorations), but Toho is likely holding that up since they hold The End of Summer (a really fantastic film), and they certainly haven't restored it...

I hope this helps.

Toho does not appear to have done anything with these as far as BD or 4K releases go, and we know how they were with newer restorations of the Godzilla flms, so I'm wondering if Criterion would even be allowed to release these, or if Toho are still holding them back.

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Has Toho released them in Japan yet?

Where can I find info on The Hidden Fortess, Throne of Blood, and others that got a 4K scan by the way? Couldn't find anything about that when I googled it.

Sorry I don't have any saved articles about it but was from a translated Japanese article from a couple years ago mentioning how all the new 4K restorations were going to be screened in theaters in Japan (off memory the ones mentioned to be screened: Seven Samurai, Jojimbo, Sanjuro, Rashomon, Kagemusha, Throne of Blood and Hidden Fortress. I think was restored by Toho in conjunction with a Japanese film company.

Last year I had seen some Youtube video of some younger guys in their 30's who went to see a few and the impressions were outstanding. I remember one of them said he could never understand the dialogue in Seven Samurai and used to watch it with Japanese subs (these were Japanese youtubers) but the audio was so clear in the new restoration that for the first time he could actually make it out clearly.

I do know however that none of these have had Japanese blu ray releases. I check occasionally hoping they will.

[DukeTogo84]

I've always heard that that in order for a Toho film to get a Blu-ray here, it has to have had a Blu-ray in Japan, but that's not entirely correct. Onibaba and Kwaidan got Blu-ray releases here first and don't even have Blu-rays in Japan. Video game creator Hideo Kojima had to import them from the US as he wanted them on disc and was surprised Japan didn't have them out.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

When/if Criterion issues a Kurosawa UHD/Blu box set, I'm convinced the packaging will be unlike anything we've seen in the home video industry.

Criterion will partner with The Folio Society for the 300-page hardbound book included with the set. The set will be constructed with a yet-to-be-discovered element capable of becoming a steelbook, plastic case, or digibook - you decide. ALL Kurosawa's movies will be included, and all will be presented in 4K and 2K. To optimize bitrate and maximize fluidity, each of AK's 33 movies will receive its own UHD disc. All movies offered in 2K will be down-rezzed from fresh 4k transfers. If you don't want the blu-rays, Criterion will give you a $100 gift card to take them back.

33 UHDs, 33 Blu-rays, 66-disc set.

SRP: $2999.99
"Half off" price: $99.99

For the love of god, i just hope it's not some convoluted packaging like WKW, or Scratch & Glue Fests like Godzilla. Just make a regular damn package. All of my WKW discs are scratched, attempted 2 returns, took the best I could get. My Godzilla book has discs sliding down into the packaging, getting glue gobs and scratches.

Just make a regular god damn box set, for the love of all that is holy. You don't have to try to reinvent the wheel.

The Bergman set is pretty damn good, I'd be happy with that shape/size/format.

[M A]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Thanks. I know about Seven Samurai getting a 4K restoration, and High and Low, Ikiru, and Rashomon's Criterion releases were from 4K scans (though some with just 2K restorations), but couldn't find much about the others, specifically Hidden Fortress, which is my favorite.

I do wonder how good these 4K restorations are? The links just say digitally remastered, so it would be great to know the extent of the restorations.

The Ikiru restoration is very nice, so I think the others should be too. High and Low also has a newer restoration than the Criterion disc, and it has been released in France, but I can't find out if it is a 2K or a 4K restoration. Judging by these screencaps and a clip uploaded to youtube:

[Show spoiler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT2M2Ued58k

It definitely looks a lot healthier, but it does look very soft and for some reason is in 2.55:1 instead of 2.35:1.

Speaking of Shochiku: they do nice video restorations, but their audio restorations are the worst things I have ever heard, notably The Story of the Last Chrysanthemums.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by RevolverOcelScott

For the love of god, i just hope it's not some convoluted packaging like WKW, or Scratch & Glue Fests like Godzilla. Just make a regular damn package. All of my WKW discs are scratched, attempted 2 returns, took the best I could get. My Godzilla book has discs sliding down into the packaging, getting glue gobs and scratches.

Just make a regular god damn box set, for the love of all that is holy. You don't have to try to reinvent the wheel.

The Bergman set is pretty damn good, I'd be happy with that shape/size/format.

Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of a lot of the layout of a lot of some of the bigger boxes from Criterion and Arrow. Leaves more room for scratches and problems. A nice long box with actual cases would be great. Something like what Shout did for the Friday the 13th set. Nothing fancy, but overall nice.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of a lot of the layout of a lot of some of the bigger boxes from Criterion and Arrow. Leaves more room for scratches and problems. A nice long box with actual cases would be great. Something like what Shout did for the Friday the 13th set. Nothing fancy, but overall nice.

Definitely. I know they feel the need to make them special or unique, but none of their sets fit on any of my shelfes, are way too damn large, lead to scratches, bulky or unwieldy. It's sad that there are sellers on ebay, etc selling cases so that you don't have to deal with potential damage and so that they'll fit on the selves correctly.

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

I've always heard that that in order for a Toho film to get a Blu-ray here, it has to have had a Blu-ray in Japan, but that's not entirely correct. Onibaba and Kwaidan got Blu-ray releases here first and don't even have Blu-rays in Japan. Video game creator Hideo Kojima had to import them from the US as he wanted them on disc and was surprised Japan didn't have them out.

Yes they may have required this once upon a time cause Criterion released a lot of Kurosawa movies around the same time as the Japanese blu rays came out, but I guess that policy might no longer be in effect.

As for packaging, honestly the Essential Fellini case was great, if only Criterion used some plastic disc holders or something similarly to how vinyl records often use. Would have saved a lot of discs that got damaged with the current setup (I had to get 2 replacements).

[jw007]

MifuneFan: What are your favorite Toshiro Mifune films? Which ones do you recommend for someone who's looking to get more acquainted with his work?

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by jw007

MifuneFan: What are your favorite Toshiro Mifune films? Which ones do you recommend for someone who's looking to get more acquainted with his work?

I know question's not directed at me, but I highly highly recommend Samurai Trilogy. All three rock and are masterpieces showcasing why Toshiro Mifune is truly one of the all time greatest.

I also recommend The Hidden Fortress, and Yojimbo / Sanjuro. Some of my all time favorites of Kurosawa.

[Stewynewy]

Originally Posted by jw007

MifuneFan: What are your favorite Toshiro Mifune films? Which ones do you recommend for someone who's looking to get more acquainted with his work?

Also not directed at me, but I'd recommend 'Stray Dog' (which is where MifuneFan's pic comes from). In my top 5 Kurosawa, a big part of it is the way the film captures the hot summer setting, it feels extremely real and almost uncomfortable at times.

Also 'Hell in the Pacific'. A great survival film set during WW2, staring Lee Marvin opposite Mifune and directed by John Boorman.

[ShellOilJunior]

Can't go wrong with any movies directed by Kurosawa starring Mifune.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by jw007

MifuneFan: What are your favorite Toshiro Mifune films? Which ones do you recommend for someone who's looking to get more acquainted with his work?

That's a tough one to answer. Sometimes my favorite Mifune performance is the one I just finished watching. I'm just constantly amazed at his range as an actor.

This year, I had a Mifune retrospective to coincide with The Film Forum dong theirs, and I watched 17 of his films, some for the first time. I wrote some brief thoughts on some of the films here, including links to previous posts where I discussed my experience seeing films like Samurai Rebellion, and Samurai Assassin for the first time.

I think Mifune was equally at home playing serious roles, as he was playing a fool of sorts, and in many of his movies you see combinations of both. That's true for films like Seven Samurai, Red Lion, Rashomon, and Samurai Saga among others. The last one there, Inagaki's Samurai Saga was another new one for me this year, and I was really impressed by the film, and his performance, especially the final act. He's an actor that had amazing charisma, good looks, and comedic timing among other attributes.

While he is best known for Kurosawa's period/Jidaigeki films, I think some of his (and Kurosawa's) best work are in non-period films like Stray Dog, The Bad Sleep Well, and High and Low,. As noted above by Stew, Hell in the Pacific is another strong dramatic role for Mifune that he did later in his career. I also really admire his performance in films like I Live in Fear (where he's almost unrecognizable as an elderly man paranoid about the bomb), and Scandal, which aren't discussed as often. As NeilZ also mentions above, Inagaki's Samurai Trilogy is another strong performance, showing a complete character transformation over the course of the three films.

Here's a list of some of his movies that I'll try to break down by accessibility, though I may change some of them up later on:

Most Accessible: Films and performances that I think anyone watch and enjoy

Yojimbo / Sanjuro - Possibly my favorite character that he's played. I never tire of these films, and how effortlessly entertaining they are. He would continue to play a Yojimbo character in several other movies, including one with Zatoichi, though none quite as good as the Kurosawa ones.

The Hidden Fortress - I get more joy from seeing the two bumbling peasants (precursors to C3P0 and R2-D2) than I do Mifune in this one, but it is a wonderful adventure film with great scenery.

Rashomon
Seven Samurai
Zatoichi Meets Yojimbo
Red Sun

Intermediate Accessibility - Some of these may be less mainstream, and more narrow in their focus, or tone, so they may not have the same broad appeal.

Throne of Blood

The Lower Depths - I love this film. One of Kuroasawa's more underrated films. Great long takes in this one, and wonderful performances by the whole ensemble. Some consider this one of Mifune's best.

The Bad Sleep Well
Drunken Angel
High and Low
The Quiet Duel
Samurai Rebellion
I Live in Fear

Samurai Trilogy - This is somewhat accessible, though the melodramatic tone of the films may not be for everyone. The pacing, and battles are somewhat drawn out.

Stray Dog
Snow Trail
Hell in the Pacific

Least accessible - These could probably fit into the intermediate category, but they're just a little more niche, have a more complex plot, and/or more culturally specific, benefiting from having more familiarity with Japan's history or culture.

Red Lion
Vendetta of a Samurai
Samurai Assassin
Sword of Doom
Incident at Blood Pass
Chushingura (1962) (my favorite film)

I rambled on there, but hopefully some of this was helpful. While Mifune is my namesake, I'm likely not the foremost expert here on him, so I hope others like Duke can chime in here as well. There are still a couple notable ones from him that I haven't seen yet too, like Red Beard (even though I've owned the Criterion DVD for ages now )

[Scottie]

https://www.filmlinc.org/films/the-d...-of-veronique/

[jshaide]

Was surprised to see Lost Highway in a regular plastic case. Thought it would certainly be a digipak like all the other Lynch releases. Is the UHD in a plastic case too?

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by jshaide

Was surprised to see Lost Highway in a regular plastic case. Thought it would certainly be a digipak like all the other Lynch releases. Is the UHD in a plastic case too?

4K is a Digipak

[jshaide]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

4K is a Digipak

What a ripoff!

[concolt]

Originally Posted by jshaide

What a ripoff!

It’s a nice digipak.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by concolt

It’s a nice digipak.

It's got a nifty disc in it too!