The Criterion Collection

[dvining]

I'm finding the focus on Blu-ray to 4K upgrades frustrating from a collector's perspective. I'm not at the point where I need to upgrade my Blu-rays, and, even though I've invested in the format, I'm still not entirely sold on it (having Blu-ray backups in most 4K sets helps easy my wavering).

However, it's obvious that Criterion is going for the stuff that sells. Gilliam is probably up there with Wes Anderson as one of their big, modern gets that sells pretty consistently. And we've got to keep in mind the news that MifuneFan (I think) shared about how WALL-E sold a grand 15,000 copies in opening week. The movie already has an in print UHD from Disney that is still really well regarded despite being just a few years old. This is not a mass market Criterion is selling to, it's a collector's market with more money than sense. So, yes, a fourth release of Time Bandits is something Criterion wants to do. It's going to sell, and it's going to sell pretty well.

They seem to be in the space of trying to financially support themselves with UHD, suddenly discovering that it's a lifeline of some sort.

That makes sense. I'm cool with it.

However, I share the frustrations that Duke has. Seriously...so many great films stuck in letterboxed DVDs, so many we know they have but just haven't gotten around to. For most movies that will never see a UHD release, that's frustrating. It's why I want the Eclipse line to come to Blu-ray. If they're going to choose nothing over anything in HD regarding something like the work of Kobayashi, give me anything in HD. Give me a 15 movie box set of his Shochiku work with minimal restoration work, and call it a day.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The quality of titles that Arrow releases is mostly awful. So much garbage.

Hahaha ok.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by dvining

They seem to be in the space of trying to financially support themselves with UHD, suddenly discovering that it's a lifeline of some sort.

Another thing Criterion could do is sublicense the films that they probably have no intention of ever releasing on disc. Guess what that does for them? Makes them money which is something they apparently need right now. Kino was able to get a ton of Disney titles from Mill Creek who did a sublicense, and in the end both parties win.

There are going to be hundreds of films that Criterion will never release on disc. I mean is a Hideo Gosha title going to sell as much as a Terry Gilliam title? No way. Still, why not give movie fans a chance to own these films and make money for themselves instead of holding films hostage and only giving us an option to watch via streaming?

Criterion is going to be Criterion, but man it would be nice if they were to play ball and share some of those titles, and give more people a chance to watch them.

[dvining]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Another thing Criterion could do is sublicense the films that they probably have no intention of ever releasing on disc. Guess what that does for them? Makes them money which is something they apparently need right now. Kino was able to get a ton of Disney titles from Mill Creek who did a sublicense, and in the end both parties win.

There are going to be hundreds of films that Criterion will never release on disc. I mean is a Hideo Gosha title going to sell as much as a Terry Gilliam title? No way. Still, why not give movie fans a chance to own these films and make money for themselves instead of holding films hostage and only giving us an option to watch via streaming?

Criterion is going to be Criterion, but man it would be nice if they were to play ball and share some of those titles, and give more people a chance to watch them.

Their obvious thinking is the Channel to support this kind of stuff.

I have no idea of their financials, and they're helped by the fact that they don't actually produce much in the way of content for the streaming service. So, they don't have the spending problems of a place like Disney+. However, considering the growing consensus that streaming is largely a money pit that is never going to pan out to the cash cow that everyone dreamed it being, I wonder if a curated service like the Criterion Channel is even safe from the rigors of that market.

Besides, it's not like the Channel has everything. Half of the Lubitsch Musical Eclipse set is missing from the Channel, just as an example. Regular access to specific titles seems sketchy at best.

Streaming has been a financial disease for many companies, and maybe they're fighting off the fever at last. We'll see.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by dvining

Their obvious thinking is the Channel to support this kind of stuff.

I have no idea of their financials, and they're helped by the fact that they don't actually produce much in the way of content for the streaming service. So, they don't have the spending problems of a place like Disney+. However, considering the growing consensus that streaming is largely a money pit that is never going to pan out to the cash cow that everyone dreamed it being, I wonder if a curated service like the Criterion Channel is even safe from the rigors of that market.

Besides, it's not like the Channel has everything. Half of the Lubitsch Musical Eclipse set is missing from the Channel, just as an example. Regular access to specific titles seems sketchy at best.

Streaming has been a financial disease for many companies, and maybe they're fighting off the fever at last. We'll see.

Criterion was one of the first to the gates with streaming their titles on Hulu, but times have changed since then. There are just too MANY streaming up options now that one has to prioritize where to subscribe. I don't see the Criterion Channel being a priority for many.

They are a business and in the end they do want to make money, so giving us the 50th release of Time Bandits makes sense for them if it makes them money. Still, as a collector it's truly frustrating. Guess what? Their Blu-ray of the title still holds up very nicely. I know some collectors are obsessed with making sure they get the very best resolution of every film, but when something looks pretty damn good already, it's not always necessary. As someone with a 4K TV and a Playstation 5 4K player, I haven't been knocked off my socks with UHD, so when something that already looks pretty damn good on Blu-ray gets a release, I just think of it taking up the slot to something that doesn't even have a HD disc period.

I think balance is key between upgrade to 4K titles and new to Blu-ray titles, as well as titles people have been asking for. This is where Criterion is falling on its face. I think Arrow, VS, Severin, Kino, and Shout are striking the right balance. I really believe Criterion needs to release more titles if one or even TWO of their monthly titles are upgrade to 4K titles with the same features as the Blu-ray, but simply better resolution.

Personally, Criterion has struck me as the old man in Up who refuses to budge and just does things their way even if it ends up hurting them. Who knows, but it's ok to sublicense, or to do more than 5 titles a month. Speaking of Up, they probably will give that a release and it will sell 20,000 copies in a week.

[MifuneFan]

Sub-licensing is not a possibility. Criterion aren't a studio, they are the ones that are licensing from the studio. They can't then license out titles to others. This is completely different from Mill Creek, who has some sort of special licensing partnership with studios, and apparently licensing Sony titles to other labels has to be brokered through them.

But let's say hypothetically they could. Who exactly would they sub-license to if they could? Kino aren't interested in Japanese films. Arrow has strayed from Japanese releases compared to the past. Film Movement can't even get the titles out they actually have licensing to. So who? Radiance is perhaps one of the few that may be a consideration in this hypothetical, but I can't see Fran being interested in releasing as many Japanese films as some on here would like, and who knows if he'd be interested at all given that many of the streaming films lack BD-quality master anyway (another reason why Criterion themselves probably aren't in a rush to release them on the format).

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

I agree. I'm not sure what people are expecting. Criterion is doing what they have always done since the days of Laserdisc. They have not strayed away from who they have always been.

Since last year they appear to be moving into a trajectory of heading back to their roots (with the exception of their immensely reduced coverage of Japanese cinema). For a number of years they were diving into really obscure stuff for the sake of diversifying their catalog (especially in terms of the countries of origin). Moving away from recognized classics (recognized as in either from critics, online fans, or cult followings). There's no doubt in my mind that this resulted in heavy blowback as could be seen all over the internet.

Interestingly and unfortunately, just as they started changing course we hear of the layoffs. Although streaming issues may have played a role I also view this as a recognition that their business was suffering from the decisions of pushing diversity as a priority. Now fans are getting more upgrades (both from DVD to blu, and more prominently from blu to 4K), and the number of nearly unknown films getting announced has been reduced. If only they resume their Japanese output to the levels of the DVD days and early blu ray days then we can say we've gone full circle and Criterion would be back at their peak in my book. Overall I'm pretty optimistic.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Sub-licensing is not a possibility. Criterion aren't a studio, they are the ones that are licensing from the studio. They can't then license out titles to others. This is completely different from Mill Creek, who has some sort of special licensing partnership with studios, and apparently licensing Sony titles to other labels has to be brokered through them.

But let's say hypothetically they could. Who exactly would they sub-license to if they could? Kino aren't interested in Japanese films. Arrow has strayed from Japanese releases compared to the past. Film Movement can't even get the titles out they actually have licensing to. So who? Radiance is perhaps one of the few that may be a consideration in this hypothetical, but I can't see Fran being interested in releasing as many Japanese films as some on here would like, and who knows if he'd be interested at all given that many of the streaming films lack BD-quality master anyway (another reason why Criterion themselves probably aren't in a rush to release them on the format).

I don't know the logistics of it, but I do know that Kino has sublicensed films to other territories where they really have any intention of releasing films like in the UK where they have sublicensed the rights to films like Violent City to 88 Films. How Mill Creek is able to sublicense the Disney films is something I'm not privy too, but I'm not of the belief that it's impossible for Criterion to do.

As for who would want the titles, more specifically the Japanese titles? Fran once mentioned to me that most of the good Toho titles he would want are with Criterion, so there are at least a handful he would want there. We wouldn't get a flood of them, but we would get some. Outside of the Japanese stuff, I'm sure there would be a flood of labels who would want titles. Kino would probably take all of the French/Italian ones in a heartbeat.

Criterion simply has too many movies and are probably acquiring more. I'm just trying to think outside of the box in terms of what are possible ways of getting more titles out there. Criterion has some of the best titles out there and I just want to see more of them get the HD treatment instead of another Time Bandits,Wall-E and the dozens of other titles they have been releasing recently that already have good releases.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by TenYearLurker

Ahhh, the classic, "Why did this title get released when we still don't have this other title that I deem to be more worthy?" It's genuinely stupid. You understand that a Time Bandits release doesn't somehow keep Brazil from being released, yes? As has already been pointed out, Disney will be a much bigger hurdle for a 4K release materializing than Criterion deciding to do a 4K release of Time Bandits first (which, again, has zero bearing on a Brazil release).

And maybe you also conveniently missed the fact that Criterion has already released a few Gilliam 4Ks in the very short time that they've been in the 4K game; I'm certain that they would love to upgrade Brazil, and are probably working on doing exactly that (unless they already tried and were denied by Disney).

Also, lots of titles have solid blu rays. What's the point of upgrading anything if we follow your 4th grade level logic?


Since you've mentioned in the past that you were young (early to mid 20's?), I'm curious: Were you always this smug, or did it take until a few weeks into film school for the haughtiness and the fetishization of the Golden Age to kick in?

Well then like you and getting a date, you try, and try and try again

[HenryHill]

Originally Posted by RevolverOcelScott

Kind of and kind of not. There are titles in their laserdisc/DVD library in desperate need of a recan/re-release, as we get the 4th iteration of Time Bandits. They have been doing a lot of recently released (in terms of the formats) blus to 4K, with little to nothing added, no HDR/Vision pass, some cases no new extras. It's hard to get excited when they announce "Hey, that title you bought a few years ago, here it is again, with nothing new except higher resolution!"

If that's how they're going to handle the format, I'd rather have them stick to blu-ray and upgrade ancient titles/add more new titles.

We don't know their sales figures so maybe updating certain titles multiple times works for CC. . .

HOWEVER

There are many titles from the laserdisc/DVD days that need HD upgrades/remasters. Red Beard, The Ruling Class, Z, Le Jour Se Leve, and Danton are just a few of the Criterion titles I really want to upgrade.

[Shanghai Express]

ehhh there was a time when they'd save four random movies from oblivion every month and that was way more exciting than the way it is now. Now we mostly just wait for official announcements of movies we already know they have, or we guess which movie they've already released will be upgraded to 4K. The titles this year are big and successful but it's obviously a different climate at Criterion than it used to be. Whether or not that's "straying" I don't know or care because I have Kino and Indicator to pick up the slack when it comes to non-canonical classics and foreign films.

[hagios]

Waiting for the sale!

[amputd]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The quality of titles that Arrow releases is mostly awful. So much garbage.

That’s a little unfair. They’ve had some issues, but they’ve had some really great releases.

[aim4theacez]

To everyone whos going “where the Japanese films? Want the Japanese films,” you’ve got a shot coming up to show support: Branded to Kill.

I mean, think about it. Yes its a 4K reissue, but more than anything, I see it as a test to see interest in older JP cinema both on UHD and in general. Criterion are pretty smart and follow trends. If they see that more modern films are selling like gangbusters and maybe outselling the classics they are associated, theyll license as many as they can. Ditto on the Wall-E point from earlier. They go where the money is. You’ve got a golden opportunity here: show interest for classic cinema on UHD, JP cinema on UHD and classic JP cinema.

You wont see The Man Who Stole the Sun (or any big “holy sh*t finally” JP title) randomly pop up amongst the upcoming titles out of the blue (although we all would lose our minds if it did, lets be honest here). If they see good sales and interest in classic JP cinema, then they will probably do more. Its just a smart way to run a business. If it cant make money, why take a huge gamble on a title like that on an unproven format for JP cinema in the west? Maybe we’ll even see the big K’s titles on UHD if it sells good.

I’ve only bought one Criterion title when it wasnt during a sale, but I guess now it will be two. I’ll be doing my part. If you really want more JP titles but don’t show interest by buying the newer ones, you’ve got nobody to blame but yourself.

[jw007]

jw007 here.

Not blown away by May's announcements, but I like Time Bandits in 4k for sure.

Just spent 15 minutes and got caught up with all the posts regarding bottom barreled Criterion, and 2023 being an amazing year/being awful, etc. etc.

I understand where DukeTogo84 and dvining are getting at here (ie. why so many 4k upgrades instead of bringing in new titles never put on DVD or blu-ray).

I don't think Janus/Criterion is the same company they used to be when it comes to making executive decisions regarding their new home video releases. Maybe it started after William Becker died? or Jason Polan, the artist behind the New Years drawings? Maybe the pandemic and layoffs brought in fresh blood with a different agenda? Maybe it's politics? Maybe they had to pivot just to survive today's dwindling brick and mortar retail space?

Regardless, if 4k is the driving force nowadays, then it's up to the companies to listen to their customers. If companies can adapt, they'll survive. If they don't adapt, they're dead in the water. Obviously, Janus is taking all this into account.

[Amiibro121]

Do we know if or which 4K pre orders will be part of the sale?

[Chase540]

Originally Posted by Amiibro121

Do we know if or which 4K pre orders will be part of the sale?

The Criterion Flash Sale only includes currently available titles, so if it’s truly next Tuesday like we all expect, then up through that day’s releases

[Chase540]

I guess I’m out of the loop, but I’ve seen reference to The Princess Bride in 4k here and at Criterionforum. Did they accidentally leak the page or something?

[Mike0284]

Originally Posted by Chase540

I guess I’m out of the loop, but I’ve seen reference to The Princess Bride in 4k here and at Criterionforum. Did they accidentally leak the page or something?

Yes.

Originally Posted by kwillard37

The June titles picture is also showing The Princess Bride

[gudemameshiba]

This may not mean anything, but fourteen Warner Archive DVDs are back in print, of which over half were released by Criterion in the intervening years:

Released by Criterion on DVD:
Barcelona (spine #807)
Akira Kurosawa's Dreams (spine #842)
Blow-Up (spine #865)
Lost in America (spine #887)
The Breaking Point (spine #889)
Show Boat (spine #1021)
Crash (spine #1059)
The Learning Tree (spine #1107)

(I suspect that the Criterion DVD editions of these titles will not be reprinted.)

Back in print after at like half a decade at least:
The 7th Victim/Shadows in the Dark
Gummo
The Lusty Men

Back in print after a shorter period of time:
Petulia
Scaramouche
The Year of Living Dangerously

Something tells me that all of these titles were with Criterion. My guess is that for the ones that were not released, DVD rights (or at least exclusivity) was reverted but Criterion retained Blu-ray rights, in keeping with their retreat from DVD releases. The other possibility, if they were indeed with Criterion, is that the licenses have lapsed outright.

(For what it's worth, plenty of other Warner's titles that Criterion has released on DVD remain unavailable from Warner Archive.)