The Criterion Collection

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

The recent True Lies 4k is “director-approved”

Jean-Pierre Jeunet has the opinion that 4k is a gimmick to sell more TVs.

risposte

As for the first part, JC is at the point where he can’t tell his ass from second base. He’s spent so much tome with his blue people that he must think blue is the only color that exists. Between the blue/cyan push and the wax, that guy shouldn’t be within a country mile of a film restoration.

As for the second part, I can (sadly) top this. When I was telling my mother about getting the After Hours 4K (most were upgrading from a DVD, but I was making the jump from a laserdisc), she provided the most critical and misinformed takedown of the 4K format I’ve ever heard: “They don’t look or sound better than DVDs, that’s just a trick to get you to pay more money.”

Simply put, wow.

[BorisKarloffice]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

As for the first part, JC is at the point where he can’t tell his ass from second base. He’s spent so much tome with his blue people that he must think blue is the only color that exists. Between the blue/cyan push and the wax, that guy shouldn’t be within a country mile of a film restoration.

Cameron has always had...bizarre...beliefs about how movies should look on home video. There's a famous story about him being a massive pain in the ass during the creation of the laserdisc release of Aliens, demanding it be de-grained, sharpened, then de-grained again before signing off on it, despite the limitations of the equipment at that time causing major artifacts in the resulting master.

His fanatical hatred of film grain may be unrivaled in the industry and he's expressed that sentiment for decades. He will do anything to get rid of it, even if it destroys every other aspect of the image, and he's always been that way.

[Taylor3978]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

Cameron has always had...bizarre...beliefs about how movies should look on home video.

Hoping he has no input into releases of Kathryn Bigelow films....

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by NeoNical

Army of Shadows has been anticipated for some time now so I can't wait to see how the 4K looks like. The restoration that we've had has definitely been there as far back as the early to mid 2000s when it was rediscovered by American critics and became critically acclaimed (Due to the fact the film has never screened in the US at that point because of how poor the critical reception in France was back in '69). It may be frustrating for many, though, if this new restoration will have a strong yellow tint that Le Cercle Rouge had a few years back.

Studio Canal released Le Cercle Rouge without the tint, hopefully the same thing would happen with Army of Shadows.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by shimmy

Studio Canal released Le Cercle Rouge without the tint.

If we're talking about the newer restoration, this isn't true. It's the same as Criterion's 4K release.

[Taylor3978]

Rian Johnson as guest host on TCM on Saturday had Trouble in Paradise as one of his picks (actually he had two Kay Francis films). With all the speculation that the Cannes Classics restorations suggest all kinds of goodies coming from Criterion, worth recalling that this was restored seven years ago:

[ilenewoodsfan99]

Here's hoping for Trouble in Paradise!

[Azores26]

Originally Posted by Taylor3978

Rian Johnson as guest host on TCM on Saturday had Trouble in Paradise as one of his picks (actually he had two Kay Francis films). With all the speculation that the Cannes Classics restorations suggest all kinds of goodies coming from Criterion, worth recalling that this was restored seven years ago:

Yeah, been waiting for "Trouble in Paradise" forever. If WAC was going to release it themselves they would've probably already done so long ago, so I'm pretty certain that Criterion has it.

BTW, you need to update your signature and take out "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid" from your most wanted list LOL

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Azores26

Yeah, been waiting for "Trouble in Paradise" forever. If WAC was going to release it themselves they would've probably already done so long ago, so I'm pretty certain that Criterion has it.

Just FYI - it's owned by Universal, not WB. But yes, most likely Criterion has it, otherwise Universal would've either released it themselves or licensed it to Kino.

[Taylor3978]

Originally Posted by Azores26

BTW, you need to update your signature and take out "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid" from your most wanted list LOL

Waiting for the actual release

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Purplenoon

I agree with ShaneRollins: O LUCKY MAN! is a masterpiece that needs the Bluray or 4K treatment. It would be a perfect fit for Criterion.

And, an off the wall suggestion, from a couple of years ago: will "RRRR" ever see the light of day in the US. I know it's Bollywood, but from what I've heard it's totally unique. Come on, Criterion: give it a look see.

Originally Posted by amputd

I agree on O’LUCKY MAN! It’s almost a forgotten film at this point. “IF” could use the 4k treatment as well.

Originally Posted by NeoNical

I'm personally not as big of a fan of O Lucky Man! as much as I am a fan of If. However, I think it's a really fun film, even if it clocks at a whopping 3-hours. It's very out there and I think a lot of people will be interested by this one, especially for those who are big fans of Malcolm McDowell.

Speaking of McDowell, Brittania Hospital is going OOP by Kino Lorber. If there's a new restoration coming out, I think either Criterion or Kino should release that and have the entire Mick Travis Trilogy in print and released (Since we're really only missing O Lucky Man, which I think is a far more popular film than Britannia Hospital).

The thing that’s crazy about O Lucky Man! is there’s no real reason why it went out of print.

It was dropped on October 23, 2007, day-and-date with the 2007 releases of A Clockwork Orange. On that ACO release is a 90-minute documentary about McDowell where I first heard about O Lucky Man! and several of his other films. The oldest I could’ve been was 11 when this happened (so 2012), and OLM was already out of print. Now granted it’s neither as known or as popular as ACO (the audience is probably 100:1), but there’s still demand. It was already OOP and expensive, about $40-$50 then. Now it’s over $100.

What the hell is taking so long? The audience isn’t enough to command those prices, nor are the copies that rare.

Considering WAC is doing no new DVD releases nor DVD reissues (burners of previously pressed WHV discs), it’s either a Blu-ray from WAC or a Blu-ray from Criterion. If Britannia Hospital can get three releases, surely O Lucky Man! can get one.

Please. Someone. Make a damn move.

[Shanghai Express]

Originally Posted by Taylor3978

Rian Johnson as guest host on TCM on Saturday had Trouble in Paradise as one of his picks (actually he had two Kay Francis films). With all the speculation that the Cannes Classics restorations suggest all kinds of goodies coming from Criterion, worth recalling that this was restored seven years ago:

Criterion ain't **** for this.

[Azores26]

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses092789

Just FYI - it's owned by Universal, not WB. But yes, most likely Criterion has it, otherwise Universal would've either released it themselves or licensed it to Kino.

Oh right, for some reason I thought WB had it. Thanks for correcting me.

[BorisKarloffice]

Originally Posted by Taylor3978

Hoping he has no input into releases of Kathryn Bigelow films....

If he gets his hands on Near Dark before it makes it to UHD, I will send an android back in time after his mother.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

Cameron has always had...bizarre...beliefs about how movies should look on home video. There's a famous story about him being a massive pain in the ass during the creation of the laserdisc release of Aliens, demanding it be de-grained, sharpened, then de-grained again before signing off on it, despite the limitations of the equipment at that time.

His fanatical hatred of film grain may be unrivaled in the industry and he's expressed that sentiment for decades. He will do anything to get rid of it, even if it destroys every other aspect of the image, and he's always been that way.

Wow.

So he actually beat George Lucas to the punch.

While I think directors should be included in the home video process, I also don’t think that should be the requirement for getting a disc out there.

True Lies and The Abyss were easily in the top five most wanted discs ever, and but for Cameron waxing the hell out of them, they would’ve been solid.

Now this is just a theory, but I really think the transfers (at least the one for The Abyss) were truly done in 2009, the first time they were pegged as “coming soon” by Bill Hunt. It was likely one of the solid transfers that was on the bootlegs. Cameron likely saw the image that looks less like video and more like film, shit a brick, and began tinkering with it. The laserdisc story makes a lot of sense, since it wasn’t one transfer, is was literally multiple transfers of cranking the wax, then the sharpness, repeat process, dozens of times over.

Him saying that the image was bad because it didn’t look good on his tube TV is ridiculous. Nothing looks good on a tube TV! I’ve seen lots of stuff on tube TVs - broadcasts, Beta and VHS tapes, laserdiscs, CED videodiscs, and DVDs - and they all looked more or less the same. None of them were even remotely close to what they were supposed to look like. Judging the visual quality of Aliens, any Cameron film, or any film in general by how it looks on a tube TV is like judging one of the symphonies of Mozart or Beethoven based on how it sounds when played on a kazoo.

Presumably he’s still using the “how does it look on a tube TV” standard today. While I’m not sure exactly which Blu-ray and 4K models can be played on a tube, I’m convinced that if you played the recent copies of Aliens, or The Abyss, or T2, or True Lies on a tube TV, they’d probably look like really good DVDs. If you watch the same discs on modern equipment, they look as awful as they actually are. Even on my admittedly piss poor setup, it took less than ten seconds each to see something was seriously wrong.

Titanic wound up being the only one that didn’t suck, and I think either he wasn’t in control of that one, or someone switched the masters to a normal one before he could stop them. It’s the only one that wasn’t a disaster.

At the least, MGM and Lionsgate should make some deal where he gives up the right to supervise the transfers for the Terminator movies. Disney gives zero Fs or I’d say they should do the same for the three films they own.

I’ll repost that article every time someone tries to give me the “well it’s his films, it’s the way they’re supposed to be seen” speech that has no basis in common sense. Thank you so much for posting it here.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

If he gets his hands on Near Dark before it makes it to UHD, I will send an android back in time after his mother.

Or Strange Days. Both of those films are crying out for solid 4Ks.

[BorisKarloffice]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

Wow.

So he actually beat George Lucas to the punch.

While I think directors should be included in the home video process, I also don’t think that should be the requirement for getting a disc out there.

True Lies and The Abyss were easily in the top five most wanted discs ever, and but for Cameron waxing the hell out of them, they would’ve been solid.

Now this is just a theory, but I really think the transfers (at least the one for The Abyss) were truly done in 2009, the first time they were pegged as “coming soon” by Bill Hunt. It was likely one of the solid transfers that was on the bootlegs. Cameron likely saw the image that looks less like video and more like film, shit a brick, and began tinkering with it. The laserdisc story makes a lot of sense, since it wasn’t one transfer, is was literally multiple transfers of cranking the wax, then the sharpness, repeat process, dozens of times over.

Him saying that the image was bad because it didn’t look good on his tube TV is ridiculous. Nothing looks good on a tube TV! I’ve seen lots of stuff on tube TVs - broadcasts, Beta and VHS tapes, laserdiscs, CED videodiscs, and DVDs - and they all looked more or less the same. None of them were even remotely close to what they were supposed to look like. Judging the visual quality of Aliens, any Cameron film, or any film in general by how it looks on a tube TV is like judging one of the symphonies of Mozart or Beethoven based on how it sounds when played on a kazoo.

Presumably he’s still using the “how does it look on a tube TV” standard today. While I’m not sure exactly which Blu-ray and 4K models can be played on a tube, I’m convinced that if you played the recent copies of Aliens, or The Abyss, or T2, or True Lies on a tube TV, they’d probably look like really good DVDs. If you watch the same discs on modern equipment, they look as awful as they actually are. Even on my admittedly piss poor setup, it took less than ten seconds each to see something was seriously wrong.

Titanic wound up being the only one that didn’t suck, and I think either he wasn’t in control of that one, or someone switched the masters to a normal one before he could stop them. It’s the only one that wasn’t a disaster.

At the least, MGM and Lionsgate should make some deal where he gives up the right to supervise the transfers for the Terminator movies. Disney gives zero Fs or I’d say they should do the same for the three films they own.

I’ll repost that article every time someone tries to give me the “well it’s his films, it’s the way they’re supposed to be seen” speech that has no basis in common sense. Thank you so much for posting it here.

I don't know if he's still playing stuff on a tube TV but his overall sentiment regarding transfers (he wants them as grainless as possible) is completely unwavering.

I mean the fact that he was so anal about this in the 90s really tells you everything you need to know. CRTs hide film grain by their general lack of resolution and their softening bloom characteristic. The fact that he's THAT sensitive to film grain, that he needed not one but two DNR passes on Aliens, even for viewing it in a CRT, is borderline pathological.

He's a curious critter. On one hand, he's done so much for pushing digital cinematography, CGI, and 3D forward, and he literally designs his own deep sea submersibles. He's clearly a genius in many regards. But his stance on home video transfers has always displayed a shocking lack of technological literacy, and he seems to have been in denial for decades about the film grain being an integral part of all movies shot on film.

[Taylor3978]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

He's a curious critter. On one hand, he's done so much for pushing digital cinematography, CGI, and 3D forward, .... his stance on home video transfers has always displayed a shocking lack of technological literacy, and he seems to have been in denial for decades about the film grain being an integral part of all movies shot on film.

If he thinks that CGI is the natural look of modern movies, then it all makes awful sense.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by BorisKarloffice

I don't know if he's still playing stuff on a tube TV but his overall sentiment regarding transfers (he wants them as grainless as possible) is completely unwavering.

I mean the fact that he was so anal about this in the 90s really tells you everything you need to know. CRTs hide film grain by their general lack of resolution and their softening bloom characteristic. The fact that he's THAT sensitive to film grain, that he needed not one but two DNR passes on Aliens, even for viewing it in a CRT, is borderline pathological.

He's a curious critter. On one hand, he's done so much for pushing digital cinematography, CGI, and 3D forward, and he literally designs his own deep sea submersibles. He's clearly a genius in many regards. But his stance on home video transfers has always displayed a shocking lack of technological literacy, and he seems to have been in denial for decades about the film grain being an integral part of all movies shot on film.

It’s literally been known since at least the 1920s that when you have film you have film grain, and the only way to truly avoid film grain is to avoid film. So in 2024, if you hate grain, shoot on a digital camera and call it a day.

With something already shot, it’s already done. Removing the grain - and therefore the detail - would be like removing the texture from the Mona Lisa.

There are some ironies that Cameron fails to comprehend. One is that negatives have very little grain. The stock used on The Abyss, T2, and True Lies has little grain and great detail, so there was no need to remove the grain. But he did it anyway.

Another irony is that there are programs that remove the grain while leaving the image intact. Imagine a truly perfect digital image, with no smearing, no waxiness, no smoothing, but also no grain. That can now be done. Yet he still opts for the 90s era program that wipes out the whole image.

Simply put, this guy’s not capable of doing a quality transfer. It’s time for people that have zero attachment to him to do the transfers.

Originally Posted by Taylor3978

If he thinks that CGI is the natural look of modern movies, then it all makes awful sense.

While I’d never known about the Aliens laserdisc incident, and I’d just dismissed the earlier bad transfers of the Terminator movies as “just old transfers”, he has had some good transfers. The 1993 transfers of The Abyss (which are on all of the DVDs) have grain, which is surprising for DVDs based on laserdisc transfers.

I think when he saw the finished result of Avatar, that’s when he went gung ho on wanting everything to look like Avatar, even though expecting movies shot on film in the 80s and 90s with practical effects and either mono or stereo sound to look and sound like a 2009 movie shot digitally with a massive 5.1 mix is idiotic at best. Comparing any of his early films to Avatar on a technological basis is an apples to oranges comparison, and the only one who doesn’t think so is him for reasons unknown.

Has Cameron ever addressed the hatred for his transfers? Has he ever heard anyone (besides the everyone in the room with him and his transfer guy on Aliens) say how he royally screwed up, or does he just not give a damn?

[The Great Owl]

I was fortunate to see the new 4K restoration of one of my all-time top five favorite movies and my all-time favorite Criterion title, Le Samouraï, on the big screen at Plaza Theatre here in Atlanta this past Thursday.

The restoration looks wonderful to my eyes. It is a bit darker than that of the earlier DVD/standard Blu-ray transfer, but not unrecognizably so.

Of course, as always, I pretty much forgot about the look of the film five minutes in and simply immersed myself in the story. The experience of seeing Le Samouraï in a theater setting with a near sold-out Atlanta Film Festival audience was pure joy. I was reminded of how funny certain scenes from this movie are under the right circumstances. The "Imagine if you were observant." line at the police station elicited a lot of laughs, as did the sequence where the policemen started to place the obnoxiously big bug recorder on Jef Costello's window, only to replace it with a smaller less conspicuous one.

I met this forum's own RojD in person at this showing. By sheer miraculous coincidence, I also ran into him at a small synth/darkwave concert in East Atlanta the following night. I can vouch for him as good people. It was an honor and a pleasure to talk to him about cinema.

(It is always somewhat surreal to meet Blu-ray.com members in person. I rather like the "Alcoholics Anonymous" vibe that we all share here on the site, but I also love to place faces with names when I can.)

Incidentally, two days later, I saw yet another one of my all-time top five favorite movies, Alien (1979), on the big screen at an AMC down the street for its 45th Anniversary screening. I always roll my eyes when I see people post the "soblessed" hashtag on social media, but...yeah...this week, I was soblessed.