The Criterion Collection

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Shanghai Express

They’ve definitely had it for a decade at least, or else Kino or Arrow would have put it out at their earliest convenience. Even if those labels had preferred to wait to use the Film Foundation restoration, they likely would have released it at a date much closer to its 2019 completion than a full five years later alongside a single newly produced, all too eggheady featurette which can’t possibly have taken a half decade for Criterion to cook up. This title simply wasn’t a priority for them, which is a shame. In this age of streaming ubiquity and dwindling physical media consumption, Criterion may not exactly be doing these old movies a complete disservice by keeping quality discs off the market (that would have been the case in 2005) but they’re certainly doing them no favors either.

After a restoration is completed it usually goes through an art house, or film festival circuit. After then the label works on producing the disc, doing legal clearances, commissioning artwork, etc..and since schedules are completed a year or more prior, it would likely have to been slotted in further down the road. So we're looking at the earliest around 1-2 years after a restoration, or around 2020/2021. The pandemic was also a factor that altered their roadmap too obviously. I don't think another label not releasing it is really proof in itself that Criterion has it that long. If so, then we can say they have every major title that Kino and Arrow haven't released, which makes no logical sense.

Criterion has a much broader roadmap than most imagine. It wouldn't surprise me if they were holding off on many releases simply till they got into the 4K game. That in no way means they don't care about this film, or say The Roaring Twenties, or I Walked with a Zombie / The Seventh Victim. It just makes more strategic sense to put out a definitive format release.

I do agree that their new extras are on the light side, but I think that's simply because it already has existing quality extras. It's possible we could see another extra get added too, its been happening more often after announcements from my observations. Criterion has never been one to simply bulk up their extras with a bunch of podcaster commentaries and rando interviews like many of the labels they're being compared to are. They provide supplements that they feel are literal supplements to the film. And yes, that sometimes means an extra that isn't only about the film, but broader themes related to it. Quality>>>quantity all day long.

[ShellOilJunior]

At least with Toho, it appears Criterion wasn't sitting on a stack of releases but was at the mercy of Toho moving at a glacial pace for reasons unknown. Thankfully, the Toho-Criterion pipeline is back in service*!


*Don't forget about those titles (e.g. Red Beard, Drunken Angel, etc.) that have yet to even receive a blu-ray release.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by KurtLazyhammer

Friedkin’s approval process was abnormal. There’s a reason Bug, The Hunted, and Jade (rumored) came after he died. IIRC Bug was briefly dropped by KL after he dragged his feet with To Live And Die In LA before being reacquired after his death.

It’s abnormal for THEM. Criterion is willing to wait. Which might be annoying because we all want releases on the sooner side, but Criterion is probably gonna wind up with LIT bc they didn’t throw a public hissy fit about Sofia Coppola taking two years to come in.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I do agree that their new extras are on the light side, but I think that's simply because it already has existing quality extras. It's possible we could see another extra get added too, its been happening more often after announcements from my observations. Criterion has never been one to simply bulk up their extras with a bunch of podcaster commentaries and rando interviews like many of the labels they're being compared to are. They provide supplements that they feel are literal supplements to the film. And yes, that sometimes means an extra that isn't only about the film, but broader themes related to it. Quality>>>quantity all day long.

I agree with all your points. And I really do wonder if we’ll start seeing more supplements based on what Peter Becker said at NYFF. When he was asked about the early conversations with the new owner, he said that they were asked, “What would you like to do if you had access to capital?”

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

At least with Toho, it appears Criterion wasn't sitting on a stack of releases but was at the mercy of Toho moving at a glacial pace for reasons unknown. Thankfully, the Toho-Criterion pipeline is back in service*!


*Don't forget about those titles (e.g. Red Beard, Drunken Angel, etc.) that have yet to even receive a blu-ray release.

I really want those Toho Kurosawa films before more editions of films that had decent releases. I really want Drunken Angel, The Bad Sleep Well, Stray Dog and Red Beard first, and then we can go for another release of Ikiru, Throne of Blood, Hidden Fortress, etc. Still, I'm almost positive the next Kurosawa will be Ikiru, Throne of Blood, or Hidden Fortress.

[mande2013]

How many 4K SDR upgrades have Criterion done of films for which they’d already done a 4K-sourced Blu-ray? Is McCabe and Mrs. Miller the only one? 8 1/2 and The Seventh Seal had 4K-sourced BDs, but they were boxset only. Branded to Kill and the Kurosawa 4Ks are SDR, but they use newer masters than the Blu-rays.

[Egbert Souse]

Originally Posted by mande2013

How many 4K SDR upgrades have Criterion done of films for which they’d already done a 4K-sourced Blu-ray? Is McCabe and Mrs. Miller the only one? 8 1/2 and The Seventh Seal had 4K-sourced BDs, but they were boxset only. Branded to Kill and the Kurosawa 4Ks are SDR, but they use newer masters than the Blu-rays.

The Apu Trilogy, In the Mood for Love, and Night of the Living Dead.

Likewise, the upgrades with regular HDR from existing 4K masters:
Mildred Pierce, Kurosawa's Dreams, and The Virgin Suicides

And upgrades with Dolby Vision:
Blood Simple
Blue Velvet
Don't Look Now
A Hard Day's Night
The Princess Bride
The Red Shoes

[SpookyDollhouse]

The Don't Look Now UHD is sourced from a new 4K scan.

[bergman864]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

It’s abnormal for THEM. Criterion is willing to wait. Which might be annoying because we all want releases on the sooner side, but Criterion is probably gonna wind up with LIT bc they didn’t throw a public hissy fit about Sofia Coppola taking two years to come in.

They've waited more than a year on previous releases. Look how long Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and Cry-Baby took from first announcement. It's ridiculous to assume it's simply KL wanted to put it out sooner.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Egbert Souse

The Apu Trilogy, In the Mood for Love, and Night of the Living Dead.

Likewise, the upgrades with regular HDR from existing 4K masters:
Mildred Pierce, Kurosawa's Dreams, and The Virgin Suicides

And upgrades with Dolby Vision:
Blood Simple
Blue Velvet
Don't Look Now
A Hard Day's Night
The Princess Bride
The Red Shoes

I think Mulholland Drive might also be the same scan as the original Blu-ray except with a subsequent HDR layer added.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by mande2013

I think Mulholland Drive might also be the same scan as the original Blu-ray except with a subsequent HDR layer added.

It wasn't.

https://www.festival-cannes.com/en/2...ning-makeover/

How did you kick-start the process?

We took a look at what could be salvaged from the 2015 restoration, which was finalised in 2016. Criterion had a film calibration that had been approved by David Lynch, which was a nice surprise. When restoration work began in 2015, the filmmaker wanted to calibrate his film in cinema mode. Throughout the process, he kept telling us: "I make films for the big screen". He had approved the big-screen version, and so all the calibration configurations that had been decided upon had been saved. That made life so much easier! It meant we could start with the existing scan to finalise the 4K restoration, but it was a little tricky as scanner technology has since evolved.

So you re-scanned the film using the latest technology?

We couldn't do things by halves, not with a film like Mulholland Drive! We went back to the original negatives and scanned them in 4K using the very latest technology. This step lent the restoring process greater depth and texture, and brought more of the film's details to light. We reapplied the existing cinema calibration to the new scan, which needed to be kept because David Lynch had spent so much time on it. We wanted to stay true to his vision. 95% of the work had already been done by Lynch back in 2015. But the technical facelift given to this restoration was significant.

What state was the reel in?

The film negative was very clearly imprinted with a lot on it. It had aged well, it had been carefully stored away. We were able to digitally scan and recompose it without losing any definition. The only fly in the ointment was the opening sequence, but it had been filmed on video by Lynch. Then, when you get to the film's first shots, the image definition and contrast is incredible. With a 2001 film like Mulholland Drive, we could have had quite a few sequences with a digital intermediary, but that wasn't the case here. The film that was inside the camera was used.

How did David Lynch contribute to this project?

First, he checked the HDR calibration for Blu-ray with his main calibrator at the Photokem labs in Los Angeles, where the restoration work took place. Thanks to his work, viewers are treated to all the finesse and detail of the film copy on Blu-ray. And when David Lynch found out that the film had been selected for Cannes, he wanted to make a few tweaks to the cinema version. He was very responsive, which just goes to show how much he loves the film he made.

https://www.studiocanal.com/news/4k-...ive-announced/

For this latest restoration, STUDIOCANAL and Criterion decided to mark the 20th Anniversary by restoring the film in 4K and premiering the film in Cannes. A process that often takes two years was condensed into several months with the help of David Lynch, who supported the restoration team. As the 2016 restoration was already approved by Mr. Lynch, it was possible to use these grading parameters and apply them to the 4K scan of the original negatives. Then a new and exclusive HDR grading was supervised by Mr. Lynch, with the unique objective to offer to the public all the detail of the theatrical version on the new 4K Dolby Vision edition. This new version will therefore offer much more detail than ever before. The sound was also remastered from the original 5.1 audio tracks through the director and his team’s supervision. The 4K release will be available to watch in cinemas, along with UHD BD and Digital editions.

[dwk]

Originally Posted by ophone

I'd like an upgrade from DVD to BD or even to UHD of Le deuxième souffle by Jean-Pierre Melville.
If I see right, there doesn't exist a French version of this film on BD, except the remake with Daniel Auteuil.

That one was schedule to get a UHD in France along with L´aïné de Ferchaux , but L´aïné de Ferchaux was cancelled and I don't know the status of Le deuxième souffle.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I would definitely add market considerations to your list and trying to maximize the best timing for one release or another. Nowadays, Criterion also has to scrupulously insure none of their choices offend anyone in the slightest or go against any prevailing trends of social culture and, if possible, have material that corresponds or will somehow insinuate itself into those trends.

I agree with the market considerations portion of your comment, Professor, but feel that the other portion of your statement is blown way out of proportion. Sure, they've made conscious efforts to diversify their releases...and likely at least somewhat in response to that 2020 NYT column. But I haven't seen any evidence they're holding back specific releases because of fear of offending someone. That's mostly just internet grumbling.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

I agree with the market considerations portion of your comment, Professor, but feel that the other portion of your statement is blown way out of proportion. Sure, they've made conscious efforts to diversify their releases...and likely at least somewhat in response to that 2020 NYT column. But I haven't seen any evidence they're holding back specific releases because of fear of offending someone. That's mostly just internet grumbling.

Well, we wouldn't know if anything is being held back, would we? Where would we get such evidence from? So my supposition is as good as yours right now.

We do know they are very sensitive to certain things in film history that are heavily frowned upon nowadays-and mostly with good reason, but they have utilized disclaimers for those and hopefully will avoid any apologetic contextual explanatory extras or outright banning by exclusion. Don't bet the farm that THE JAZZ SINGER or any Mister Moto pictures will see a release anytime soon, however.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by SpookyDollhouse

The Don't Look Now UHD is sourced from a new 4K scan.

The Studio Canal 4k looks spectacular, so I don't see any reason to pick up the Criterion or for a new scan in the first place outside of being used as marketing bait.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I do agree that their new extras are on the light side, but I think that's simply because it already has existing quality extras. It's possible we could see another extra get added too, its been happening more often after announcements from my observations. Criterion has never been one to simply bulk up their extras with a bunch of podcaster commentaries and rando interviews like many of the labels they're being compared to are. They provide supplements that they feel are literal supplements to the film. And yes, that sometimes means an extra that isn't only about the film, but broader themes related to it. Quality>>>quantity all day long.

I think those pom poms you consistently wave for this label are clouding your judgment again. You really think that the paltry amount of extras Criterion has been producing still outclass labels like Arrow and Indicator? You're saying that labels like that bulk up extras that don't represent relevant or extremely high quality features the way Criterion does, that Criterion actually DEFINES the word SUPPLEMENTS?

Do you actually own any Indicator discs? You truly and sincerely don't think their supplements are comparable to Criterion or transcend them at times? Seriously man, at what point does blind sycophantic loyalty and defense of a label begin and end?

[Dr. Zaius]

Jennifer Kent’s Closet Picks - YouTube

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I think those pom poms you consistently wave for this label are clouding your judgment again. You really think that the paltry amount of extras Criterion has been producing still outclass labels like Arrow and Indicator? You're saying that labels like that bulk up extras that don't represent relevant or extremely high quality features the way Criterion does, that Criterion actually DEFINES the word SUPPLEMENTS?

Do you actually own any Indicator discs? You truly and sincerely don't think their supplements are comparable to Criterion or transcend them at times? Seriously man, at what point does blind sycophantic loyalty and defense of a label begin and end?

I think its clear that emotions can cloud the judgment about a label in both directions.

I find most of these boutiques do a great job, and don't see much benefit in comparing them. If a release is appealing, I'll buy it - we'll never know if a different label might have done it better. I'm just happy we have so many options these days, and try to support as many of them as I'm able!

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

I think its clear that emotions can cloud the judgment about a label in both directions.

I find most of these boutiques do a great job, and don't see much benefit in comparing them. If a release is appealing, I'll buy it - we'll never know if a different label might have done it better. I'm just happy we have so many options these days, and try to support as many of them as I'm able!

Definitely agree about the emotions and attachments they make with specific labels, but if I don’t try and temper that I lose all priority of judgment and buyer’s common sense. Long gone for me are the days I would automatically defend and invest in Criterion product. My cultivated objectivity is all that keeps me from going bankrupt on this hobby.

As for comparing labels, I find it educational and precautionary if it keeps me from double dipping. For instance, if I applied unwavering loyalty to Criterion I would be sacrificing some of the biggest gems of my collection that happened to come out on other labels.

Also, I hate any blind, deaf and dumb loyalty to any company or corporation or establishment because I’m an aging hippie curmudgeon who can find most anything worthy of cynicism.

[Martin_31]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Well, we wouldn't know if anything is being held back, would we? Where would we get such evidence from? So my supposition is as good as yours right now.

We do know they are very sensitive to certain things in film history that are heavily frowned upon nowadays-and mostly with good reason, but they have utilized disclaimers for those and hopefully will avoid any apologetic contextual explanatory extras or outright banning by exclusion. Don't bet the farm that THE JAZZ SINGER or any Mister Moto pictures will see a release anytime soon, however.

We would know by a film never being released at all—which isn’t happening with this label. As another member mentioned Winchester ‘73’s portrayal of Indigenous peoples being problematic, that doesn’t mean Criterion held off on releasing it for years. If they did, then we wouldn’t be seeing this release. The Jazz Singer was released on blu-ray and is still available. So, CRASHLANDING is correct in saying it’s “internet grumbling.” Perhaps, from curmudgeons.