The Criterion Collection

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

I would love to see the Eclipse line to resurface for the HD line. Create a noir set and I can assure you it would do well. I mean Kino keeps releasing noir sets. It probably won't hit Punch Drunk Love numbers, but it will have an audience.

If for nothing else, I’d like them to keep that line up just for schools and libraries. That is, after all, their stated reason for still producing regular DVDs for films that don’t have one easily available.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by atacms

It seems that money corrupts, and art is secondary to them.

Eh? It’s a low-margin business. They’ve said in the past that 10k copies is the break-even point. If a title can sell 30k, it subsidizes a title that’ll do 3k.

To quote The Right Stuff, no bucks, no Buck Rogers.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Azores26

But I agree about the Eclipse line, it's a shame they don't do these anymore. I wish their Janus Contemporaries line wasn't only focused on... well, contemporaries lol. Would be a great opportunity to release more niche films alongside their regular releases.

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

Yeah, I'm not surprised why they released Cronos and Punch Drunk Love as the potential for sales are higher. There has been a forward movement towards 4K and these two are damn good movies.

I would love to see the Eclipse line to resurface for the HD line. Create a noir set and I can assure you it would do well. I mean Kino keeps releasing noir sets. It probably won't hit Punch Drunk Love numbers, but it will have an audience.

I've come around to the idea of making a Janus Classics line to compliment the Janus Contemporaries line. I think the naming of the latter perfectly opens the door for the former. I think it would be ideal for HD titles that aren't quite great enough for a full Criterion Collection release, whether due to sub-standard elements, or just lacking in extras.

I also think going the MOD model route (pressed discs only) would also be financially safer for them too, in case they felt there wasn't enough demand for such a line to exist. I'm not sure if Criterion has considered such a line, or if they feel its necessary with the streaming service, but I may send an email to them with this proposition.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I also think going the MOD model route (pressed discs only) would also be financially safer for them too, in case they felt there wasn't enough demand for such a line to exist. I'm not sure if Criterion has considered such a line, or if they feel its necessary with the streaming service, but i may send an email to them with this proposition.

I think the big hitch is that MOD only *really* works if you don’t have to pay a licensing fee on top of whatever you spent on preparing the materials. It still costs 10-20k to prepare a title even without a big restoration. I don’t know if the math works out?

[jw007]

Wow, a solid February month of new releases coming from Criterion, especially Drugstore Cowboy.

I spent the last 30 minutes reading all the messages in response to DukeTogo84 and a lot of great points were already brought up. I laughed, I cried, I seethed, I respected. MifuneFan's animated gif of Duke as a samurai burning down the Criterion HQ was hilarious, but what really stuck out were good points made by Professor Echo, DimitriL, and CRASHLANDING.

Yes, Criterion is a business, and yes, hundreds of titles should be put out on blu-ray or 4K, and yes, physical media a dwindling market compared to a decade ago.

But what people like Duke and myself have to remember is: EXPECT NOTHING.

If you have no expectations, then you have no standards and no attachments to the standards you elevate in the first place.

While I'd love to see hundreds of amazing rare movies come out in the Criterion Collection, from a marketing standpoint and a business model, it's not viable, it's not profitable, and it's not realistic.

I have long given up on being able to cross out my list of movies I'd like to see in the Criterion Collection. In the last 10 years, I was only able to cross one off my list so far, and that was After Hours. I have another 30 titles on that list that will most likely never see the light of day.

When I joined this forum, I was 33 years old. That was purportedly the age Jesus died. Well, I'm 46 now. As a person ages, their expectations go out the window, much like the woman you wish you'd have in your life but will never attain.

Look at the home video market in the same light. All despair is followed by hope. Rather than despair, have zero expectations and be grateful for whatever is released.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

Eh? It’s a low-margin business. They’ve said in the past that 10k copies is the break-even point. If a title can sell 30k, it subsidizes a title that’ll do 3k.

To quote The Right Stuff, no bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Well I do wonder, are films like Gummo and Crossing Delancey (both are relatively recent and in English but still kind of obscure) really likely to sell more copies than hypothetical 4K upgrades of inner circle canon (TSPDT top 100 mainstay) titles like Au Hasard Balthazar, Beau Travail, or Ugetsu?

I suppose the former two are films Criterion figure the casuals are more likely to blind buy and "check out" whereas Ugestu and "Balthazar" may feel like 'homework' to a lot of the "uninitiated".

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by mande2013

Well I do wonder, are films like Gummo and Crossing Delancey (both are relatively recent and in English but still kind of obscure) really likely to sell more copies than hypothetical 4K upgrades of inner circle canon (TSPDT top 100 mainstay) titles like Au Hasard Balthazar, Beau Travail, or Ugetsu?

I'm not sure about Crossing Delancey - I'd like to know what the sales were on Dogfight and (especially relevant) Chilly Scenes of Winter - but Gummo I think is gonna sell hot for awhile. There's a weird amount of pent-up demand for that one. I know a lot of film people who are in for that day one.

(I only say weird because that's a film I couldn't see myself watching, much less shelling out for. )

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by jw007

But what people like Duke and myself have to remember is: EXPECT NOTHING.

I wish could have this mindset, as it would probably make things easier for me. The main issue is that we know exactly some of the films Criterion has. Ignorance is bliss and if I had no idea that Criterion had all these titles, I'd probably be very quiet around these parts.

Either way, I need to get into your mindset, and probably would be easier to do if Hunter in the Dark was already out.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

I'm not sure about Crossing Delancey - I'd like to know what the sales were on Dogfight and (especially relevant) Chilly Scenes of Winter - but Gummo I think is gonna sell hot for awhile. There's a weird amount of pent-up demand for that one. I know a lot of film people who are in for that day one.

(I only say weird because that's a film I couldn't see myself watching, much less shelling out for. )

Well Dogfight and "Chilly Scenes" were only released on blu-ray. I mentioned the other two since they were released on 4K despite not being household names among film geeks the way No Country for Old Men and Paris, Texas are, for instance.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by TheMonsterBod

Long time listener, first time caller. ;-) Help me understand.

Curious why you got banned and why you're resorting to creating sock accounts this time? Was it a permanent ban, because I don't think creating a sock account is going to help your case.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by mande2013

Well Dogfight and "Chilly Scenes" were only released on blu-ray. I mentioned the other two since they were released on 4K despite not being household names among film geeks the way No Country for Old Men and Paris, Texas are, for instance.

Gummo is kind of infamous and my guess is it's gonna hit that Repo Man sweet spot.

Crossing Delancey also has one factor going for it that Dogfight and Chilly Scenes didn't: it was a hit. I'm sure that helped push it into 4k category.

(Also, and I know it's very coincidental, but the timing is kind of great for a Jewish-themed romcom with Netflix's Nobody Wants This becoming a huge surprise hit.)

[dwk]

Originally Posted by TheMonsterBod

Long time listener, first time caller. ;-) Help me understand.



When you say they have a thousand titles, what exactly do you mean and what titles? They'd need to pay for a new license, if it's even available, a quality source, and invest in a new scan of each one. I don't know if you're expecting them to re-release every DVD or you're just speculating about films we don't know if they've licensed, but either way it doesn't make a lot of sense to expect that much from one distributor anymore with all the competition.

He is talking about the Janus Films catalog, so the titles are already under license. But, yeah having the rights doesn't mean that they are already ready to release. Most of them do need new masters.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by TheMonsterBod

I guess the you problem will forever remain a you problem. The rest of us enjoy movies that get released.

Again, curious why you got banned and why you're resorting to creating sock accounts this time? Was it a permanent ban, because I don't think creating a sock account is going to help your case.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by mande2013

Well I do wonder, are films like Gummo and Crossing Delancey (both are relatively recent and in English but still kind of obscure) really likely to sell more copies than hypothetical 4K upgrades of inner circle canon (TSPDT top 100 mainstay) titles like Au Hasard Balthazar, Beau Travail, or Ugetsu?

These kind of questions often appear in the Warner Archive thread, why some more esoteric titles get released before obviously more popular ones that would surely outsell the obscure ones that are already done. The answer there from the source at WAC is that their philosophy is to release titles as they are RESTORED and not on the basis of chronology or perceived popularity. Maybe Criterion operates the same way?

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

These kind of questions often appear in the Warner Archive thread, why some more esoteric titles get released before obviously more popular ones that would surely outsell the obscure ones that are already done. The answer there from the source at WAC is that their philosophy is to release titles as they are RESTORED and not on the basis of chronology or perceived popularity. Maybe Criterion operates the same way?

Perhaps, and to correct myself, I'll point out that Gummo and Crossing Delancey are premiering on not just 4K but also on blu-ray with their Criterion releases, which gives them a built-in audience that films that have had strong blu-rays already available for ages probably don't have unless they have very obvious commercial appeal with more casual film fans like Punch-Drunk Love. To use one example, I'm not sure a 4K of say Red Desert or Mouchette would even sell 3K copies.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Criterion has done more to elevate Japanese cinema here in the US than every other label combined, and instead of an acknowledgment or note of appreciation, I've got to read this nonsense, and get this, while Criterion has Hunter in the Dark available on iTunes and streaming via the Criterion Channel.

Why do you "got" to read it? Who is forcing you to read anything that is posted in these forums or to even participating at all? Have you no will power or do you really believe that Duke has posted this enough times that your blatant disregard of it needs to be elevated so everyone else must know about YOUR preferences and impositions while being a part of this site?

Truly man, if you don't understand how to skip over posts that others write and just move on to one that you would deem WORTH your time and effort, if such posts actually exist!, then you must be new to the internet and the way it works. Here's a hint on how to be less inconvenienced here by opinions that you are weary of hearing and repeat perspectives that are obviously troubling you to the point of being upset and somehow angry and even broken hearted: STOP READING AND RESPONDING TO THEM!

[dwk]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

These kind of questions often appear in the Warner Archive thread, why some more esoteric titles get released before obviously more popular ones that would surely outsell the obscure ones that are already done. The answer there from the source at WAC is that their philosophy is to release titles as they are RESTORED and not on the basis of chronology or perceived popularity. Maybe Criterion operates the same way?

It also boils down to keeping their friends at the US studios happy by getting the stuff they've licensed out as fast as possible. Plus there are other revenue streams for the Janus Films stuff, so the urgency isn't as great to get them out on disc.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

This is more of a you issue than anything else. You are known on this forum for a lack of perspective taking and trying to be an omniscient presence. We get it, but from time to time you need to look back and what you're saying and see how much it applies to others.

I'm not perfect and I understand that my opinions won't gel with everyone, and I try my best to reflect and make it clear that this is my personal opinion and I try my best not to INSULT someone else's even if I disagree. From every SINGLE post I've read from you, you lack self awareness. You even made someone quit this forum who was one of the the biggest contributors because of you constant barrage of nonsense over the film Flowers of the Killer Moon.

I could continue writing, but what's the point? You probably are not going to reflect on anything and are going to remain on your high horse thinking you're better than everyone else which is what 100% of your posts indicate. So not sure why I even bothered to respond.

Well said. It's gotten to the point just like w hen I started hating seeing the BATES MOTEL sign pop up in PSYCHO that I am now starting to avidly dislike Marcello Mastroianni!

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by dwk

It also boils down to keeping their friends at the US studios happy by getting the stuff they've licensed out as fast as possible. Plus there are other revenue streams for the Janus Films stuff, so the urgency isn't as great to get them out on disc.

Of course. There are likely a lot of internal and contractual reasons for what gets released and when. I can understand any label not wishing to divulge any of that to the public nor should the public expect such information as part of any explanations.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Well said. It's gotten to the point just like w hen I started hating seeing the BATES MOTEL sign pop up in PSYCHO that I am now starting to avidly dislike Marcello Mastroianni!

What really sucks is that I really like Marcello Mastroianni! Haha. It sometimes feels like you're talking to that avatar and not the person on their computer screen hundreds/thousands of miles away.

I haven't seen Bates Motel post in a long time, so wonder what happened to them.