The Criterion Collection

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Shame on Kevin for feeling he has to qualify movies that are in black and white. Does he seriously think Criterion fans who would watch this video are averse to black and white movies? Or is he grossly misguided as to the age demographic of his fading followers?

He didn't do that at all. I think you need to watch the video again. He gives high praise for Citizen Kane, saying it's possibly his favorite and most watched film of all time, and then makes a a connection between it being in Black and White, and Clerks also being in black and white, which is clearly meant to be a joke about the film's influence on him. Your take also comes off quite mean-spirited for no apparent reason.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

He didn't do that at all. I think you need to watch the video again. He gives high praise for Citizen Kane, saying it's possibly his favorite and most watched film of all time, and then makes a a connection between it being in Black and White, and Clerks also being in black and white, which is clearly meant to be a joke about the film's influence on him. Your take also comes off quite mean-spirited for no apparent reason.

His first choice HIS GIRL FRIDAY is also plainly labeled by him as being in black and white? What difference does that make? It’s not just about CITIZEN KANE in the video. If my observation seems mean spirited it’s because I’m sick of people today having to “apologize” somehow for older movies that are not considered relevant anymore. There’s enough ignorance in the medium now for established filmmakers to pander to it. If Smith thinks his fans are too modern and somehow too hip for appreciating older films that are not like today’s popular movies he’s doing the art form a disservice and overlooking his own faded popularity.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

His first choice HIS GIRL FRIDAY is also plainly labeled by him as being in black and white? What difference does that make? It’s not just about CITIZEN KANE in the video. If my observation seems mean spirited it’s because I’m sick of people today having to “apologize” somehow for older movies that are not considered relevant anymore. There’s enough ignorance in the medium now for established filmmakers to pander to it. If Smith thinks his fans are too modern and somehow too hip for appreciating older films that are not like today’s popular movies he’s doing the art form a disservice and overlooking his own faded popularity.

Did you actually watch the video? In no way is he trying to apologize for watching older movies. In fact he actually says that he's generally not a fan of "old timey" films, and was showing His Girl Friday and Citizen Kane as two rare exceptions for him. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever with him trying to be apologetic for the choices or pandering to his fans, but him simply pointing out two movies from an era that he himself is not a big fan of. And I said you were being mean-spirited because there was really no reason whatsoever to connect your incorrect interpretation to him supposedly having a dwindling fanbase.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Did you actually watch the video? In no way is he trying to apologize for watching older movies. In fact he actually says that he's generally not a fan of "old timey" films, and was showing His Girl Friday and Citizen Kane as two rare exceptions for him. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever with him trying to be apologetic for the choices or pandering to his fans, but him simply pointing out two movies from an era that he himself is not a big fan of. And I said you were being mean-spirited because there was really no reason whatsoever to connect your incorrect interpretation to him supposedly having a dwindling fanbase.

It’s impossible to ever discuss anything involving Criterion with you because you never fail to rush to their defense, even when it’s in support of a closet video that is not really any reflection of the label at all. We can interpret Smith’s comments differently, but I do think he points out that HIS GIRL FRIDAY is in black and white for no other reason than to say it’s old and likely an artifact which some modern day viewers will have issues with. There is no other reason for him to point out that it’s in black and white. Would he choose GONE WITH THE WIND and indicate that it’s in color?

As for being mean spirited, I don’t think anyone can claim that Smith has the following he did 30 years ago so my point is that if he imagines his fan base is younger than those who celebrated him in the 90’s, he’s pretty out of touch. If that’s being mean, oh well, I won’t lose sleep over it.

[MifuneFan]

Focusing on the positives, I really enjoyed the Kevin Smith video. It's informative, and humorous, and just a little bit unhinged in typical Kevin Smith fashion. I loved what he had to say about Slacker, as well as his thoughts on actors turned directors like Bill Duke.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

It’s impossible to ever discuss anything involving Criterion with you because you never fail to rush to their defense, even when it’s in support of a closet video that is not really any reflection of the label at all. We can interpret Smith’s comments differently, but I do think he points out that HIS GIRL FRIDAY is in black and white for no other reason than to say it’s old and likely an artifact which some modern day viewers will have issues with. There is no other reason for him to point out that it’s in black and white. Would he choose GONE WITH THE WIND and indicate that it’s in color?

As for being mean spirited, I don’t think anyone can claim that Smith has the following he did 30 years ago so my point is that if he imagines his fan base is younger than those who celebrated him in the 90’s, he’s pretty out of touch. If that’s being mean, oh well, I won’t lose sleep over it.

He points out that it's in black and white because it's an exception for him. Why would he be trying to be apologetic for films than he admits he's not a general fan of? Come on, that wouldn't make any sort of sense. And don't try to make this some argument about me defending Criterion. I'm calling you out because you clearly are reading the situation wrong, and almost always seem to focus on the negatives rather than positives in these videos. I don't find your hot takes to be constructive at all, and leads to pointless back and forths like this one. But I'm done. Interpret the video as you wish. I've more than explained why I feel it's incorrect.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Focusing on the positives, I really enjoyed the Kevin Smith video. It's informative, and humorous, and just a little bit unhinged in typical Kevin Smith fashion. I loved what he had to say about Slacker, as well as his thoughts on actors turned directors like Bill Duke.

I don't disagree with any of that, I just get tired of people today having to somehow acknowledge and make allowance for older movies to still be worthwhile. I see enough of that with people I know in the real world who refuse to watch anything that was made before they were born.

I was very moved by the Coppola closet video as I posted above. Not just a class act in every way, but someone who makes no hesitation to share his encompassing intelligence and resourceful sense of observing and deducing. That video goes down with the best of the closet videos where participants do more than just recount who they have worked with on their own projects or how certain elements of past films have influenced their own work, rather than just honoring something for its contribution to world culture.

[DukeTogo84]

Don't want to get into this debate, but just wanted to say I've met Kevin Smith a few times and has always been super cool and has answered my questions very sincerely and has shown a lot of respect to those that have approached him. He is also very passionate about the films he likes.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

He points out that it's in black and white because it's an exception for him. Why would he be trying to be apologetic for films than he admits he's not a general fan of? Come on, that wouldn't make any sort of sense. And don't try to make this some argument about me defending Criterion. I'm calling you out because you clearly are reading the situation wrong, and almost always seem to focus on the negatives rather than positives in these videos. I don't find your hot takes to be constructive at all, and leads to pointless back and forths like this one. But I'm done. Interpret the video as you wish. I've more than explained why I feel it's incorrect.

At this point I will just agree to disagree, but you are right that in general I do not like the closet videos and usually end up being disappointed in the people who participate in them. In general I feel they are rarely worthy of the films in the collection and their commentaries about them are too often superficial and ignorant.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

At this point I will just agree to disagree, but you are right that in general I do not like the closet videos and usually end up being disappointed in the people who participate in them. In general I feel they are rarely worthy of the films in the collection and their commentaries about them are superficial and ignorant.

So why even punish yourself and watch them? When I find something that I'm not really a fan of, I stop doing those things. Your admission of your general dislike of the closet vids also would imply that your interpretations and hot takes of the videos and the people in them are clouded by such biases. I mean, I'm not big on musicals so I don't actively seek them out. I'm also not going into threads about musicals, and generally shitting on them. That's not necessary, and disrupts discussions from people who actually enjoy such content. It would also be thread-crapping.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

So why even punish yourself and watch them? When I find something that I'm not really a fan of, I stop doing those things. Your admission of your general dislike of the closet vids also would imply that your interpretations and hot takes of the videos and the people in them are clouded by such biases. I mean, I'm not big on musicals so I don't actively seek them out. I'm also not going into threads about musicals, and generally shitting on them. That's not necessary, and disrupts discussions from people who actually enjoy such content. It would also be thread-crapping.

I only watch ones now where I actually know who the participants are and believe they might have something more profound to say about their choices than the usual babble. I have not commented on any of them in quite a long time and somehow in your quest to pigeon hole me, you skipped over my positive reaction to the Coppola video.

I don't think advising me on what I should and should not post here is very productive or civil, so my only response to that would be that if you don't like my views, put me on Ignore or simply skip over them and don't stop to read it. Just posting to reinforce the favorable biases of others is not why I choose or want to participate in a forum. I don't see it as a fan club.

[dressedtokill]

What a random ass discussion. I mean, all this back and forth over a Kevin Smith closet video. Lol

[jt839]

The Criterion Closet is pretentious af, not sure why everyone gets so worked up over them.

[The Sovereign]

Originally Posted by jt839

The Criterion Closet is pretentious af, not sure why everyone gets so worked up over them.

“pretentious af” screams triggered. But good thing you’re not worked up.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by dressedtokill

What a random ass discussion. I mean, all this back and forth over a Kevin Smith closet video. Lol

aka another Saturday afternoon on the forum.

[jt839]

Originally Posted by The Sovereign

“pretentious af” screams triggered. But good thing you’re not worked up.

To be honest, yes I find it annoying. I find it annoying seeing people bicker about if someone is actually worthy of visiting the closet every couple of days.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by jt839

To be honest, yes I find it annoying. I find it annoying seeing people bicker about if someone is actually worthy of visiting the closet every couple of days.

Who's forcing you to read any of it?

[Frankie S]

Not taking sides on this argument, and I generally love Criterion Closet videos, but the Kevin Smith one grates a little. I’ll admit my bias here - I’m not a fan of his movies - but the ageing hipster act (backward baseball cap, gentle diss at ‘old timey’ movies etc.) just about works as self-parody, if that’s the intention. If it’s sincere, then it’s excruciating.

[Thomas Veil]

Ah holidays, good will toward men and all that.

[javy]

It would be amazing if Criterion could somehow work out a deal with Amazon. I just watched Dead Ringers (2023) for a second time and it's utterly brilliant. Both it, and Refn' Too Old to Die Young, which is a masterpiece, deserve physical media releases.