The Criterion Collection

[Egbert Souse]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

ITC, that's it. I had ITC and ITV confused.


So there's a lot of upgrades to hope for there, though I don't know who they'd come from, when they'd happen, or even if. The Lodger was eight years ago now, and The Red Shoes utilized a 2010 restoration instead of performing a new one, so either Criterion signed a rather quick deal on that one, or for some reason they didn't have to sign anything and just released the 4K (all depends on how the original contract was written).


Who has War And Peace? I get that film has genuine issues with poor elements (both poor quality film was used, and the film was then poorly handled), but it could still look somewhat better than the Criterion Blu-ray from six years ago.

iTV owns the majority of the ITC catalog.

The Red Shoes didn't receive "a" restoration, it was a major Film Foundation project in collaboration with UCLA and Warner MPI using the original nitrate 3-strip negatives. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, A Matter of Life and Death, and The Tales of Hoffmann were all 4K restorations from the camera negatives. Hopefully Black Narcissus gets the same treatment before long.

War and Peace is Mosfilm as well, who also did the restoration. If they couldn't make it work to use 65mm elements, nobody else is likely to. And even outside of Russia, The World Cinema Project had to restore the Ukrainian-held Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors from a print (unclear if this is because that's the best that exists or because the archive was bombed).

[Shane Rollins]

Another film we desperately need on Blu-ray in the US is Pépé le Moko, which we only have on DVD, and which is on Blu in Europe but without English subs. I haven't heard a peep about a US release, but our trusty doctor has.

Originally Posted by Dr. Svet Atanasov - January 6, 2025

Pépé le Moko (StudioCanal) – The great French actor Jean Gabin plays a jewel thief hiding in the Casbah of Algiers and longing to return home in this classic gangster film directed by Julien Duvivier. Pepe Le Moco has been newly restored on behalf of StudioCanal and looks the best it ever has, but this Blu-ray release is not good for English speakers. However, I believe a North American Blu-ray release will be announced shortly.

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=35764

I'm thinking either July or November for this, but I'm not 100% convinced.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Egbert Souse

iTV owns the majority of the ITC catalog.

The Red Shoes didn't receive "a" restoration, it was a major Film Foundation project in collaboration with UCLA and Warner MPI using the original nitrate 3-strip negatives. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, A Matter of Life and Death, and The Tales of Hoffmann were all 4K restorations from the camera negatives. Hopefully Black Narcissus gets the same treatment before long.

War and Peace is Mosfilm as well, who also did the restoration. If they couldn't make it work to use 65mm elements, nobody else is likely to. And even outside of Russia, The World Cinema Project had to restore the Ukrainian-held Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors from a print (unclear if this is because that's the best that exists or because the archive was bombed).

Oh, I didn't mean to dress down the 2010 restoration of The Red Shoes at all. It's simply beautiful, and has aged like fine wine. While I'm willing to entertain FAH's opinion that maybe it would've been even better if newly scanned, there's no denying that what was done before is still amazing fifteen years later.

As for War And Peace, my guess is that the 70mm negatives were FUBAR, hence not just too expensive to restore, but outright unable to be restored. It says on Wikipedia that several times, when they restored or remastered the film, they took one look at the negatives, then went right back to making the best of a pan-and-scan master from decades earlier.

Maybe a new restoration from the negatives would be better. Maybe not. Maybe someone else could afford it. Maybe the ship has sailed. But for what it is, the Criterion Blu-ray is still great.

8 hours of 70mm negative would easily be several million dollars even in great shape. In horrible shape, it would likely become the most expensive film restoration ever.

[MovieBuff647]

Finally got to THE SEED OF THE SACRED FIG (magnificent film BTW) and I know myself and others were shocked that NEON is releasing the Blu-Ray themselves through Decal rather than it coming from Criterion, but I think Criterion will definitely put out a release sometime within the next couple of years, kinda like what happened with MOONAGE DAYDREAM. They've been releasing lots of Iranian cinema as of late and I'd be shocked if they had zero interest in this.

And it was shot on a Sony FX6 and FX3, so chances are it might have a 4K DI.

[Shane Rollins]

Richard Chamberlain from The Three Musketeers (1973) and The Four Musketeers (1974) has died.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by sherlockjr

The other example is from small poverty row studios or tiny production companies that went out of business and didn't have a successor to acquire those properties and then renew the copyrights. In most cases those are all films that nobody ever heard of or has much interest in seeing anyway!

So glad I'm not a "nobody!"

[Driver78]

I purchased the big Ingmar Bergman set around the time it was released; Been meaning to start delving into the collection but I don't know where to begin. I know these films are far from mainstream and might take a little time to get into so I need a recommendation. Where should I begin my Bergman journey? It's gotta be a film that will introduce a newbie like myself to the Director and won't make me run for the hills instead

[Shane Rollins]

I just looked in my emails and found this.

Thanks for your interest in our upcoming release of SORCERER https://www.criterion.com/films/34370-sorcerer

Our release features two soundtracks - the original 1977 2.0 surround soundtrack and the 2013 5.1 surround remix, both of which were approved by director William Friedkin.

In terms of the visuals, the 4K edition was made from a new scan of the 35mm original camera negative, and a 35mm CRI, which was used for some additional shots not found in the negative. Our references for the color were a 35mm print made from a 35mm CRI in 1998. and a 2013 2k video transfer - both of which were supervised and approved by Friedkin. The new 4K version was graded with DolbyVision HDR.

I hope this helps but please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns. Best,
Jon Mulvaney

Reposting this in all relevant Sorcerer threads.

[sherlockjr]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

So glad I'm not a "nobody!"

I'm definitely "nobody"!

While some Poverty Row B pictures can be interesting; or way better than just "interesting", e.g. DETOUR. But the hundreds of 60 minute long Westerns cranked out in five days for the bottom half of rural double features and kids matinees are definitely of little interest to me. From those I have seen you've seen two or three you've seen them all. Along with the creaky serials and the like.

No shade on people who want to watch those B's--you do you, and I could see how they could be fun, just not for me (I don't think much of the many 1950s B SciFi films either, not my jam). But there's a reason that nobody even bothered to buy those assets and renew the copyrights when those Gower Gulch studios went belly up.

[Shane Rollins]

For the Bergman set, I'd just go beginning-to-end. Having not seen all of his films, Wild Strawberries was my first, The Seventh Seal is arguably his best (I tend to agree with that) and The Virgin Spring is the original version of The Last House On The Left, and while I do believe TLHOTL is great, I also think TVS is better, as the American film favored gore while the original film favored story, emotion, and character development.

Consider those as you watch.

As for Sorcerer...I'm a little more worried now than I was before. "Let's go back to what he approved then, that's a reference for how it should look now!" Yeah, so long as the guy's not a revisionist jackass who's been making home video viewers shudder for decades now.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

As for Sorcerer...I'm a little more worried now than I was before. "Let's go back to what he approved then, that's a reference for how it should look now!" Yeah, so long as the guy's not a revisionist jackass who's been making home video viewers shudder for decades now.

If it was just the 2013 restoration I might read more into that, but they're clearly considering multiple sources (including from before he got into his deep revisionist period). The fact that Friedkin approved multiple discrete color timings - and I can only assume the 1998 print is far closer to the original grading, whatever that is - probably gives them more discretion.

[bonehica]

Originally Posted by Driver78

I purchased the big Ingmar Bergman set around the time it was released; Been meaning to start delving into the collection but I don't know where to begin. I know these films are far from mainstream and might take a little time to get into so I need a recommendation. Where should I begin my Bergman journey? It's gotta be a film that will introduce a newbie like myself to the Director and won't make me run for the hills instead

The BFI does lists like this for a myriad of directors. For the most part they seem to get it right.

Where to begin with Ingmar Bergman

Edit: I also picked up the set shortly after it was released and have, at this time, only watched about half of them. As such, I sometimes forget which ones I have watched and which ones I haven't. I don't keep an actual written down list, so I arrange the discs in the set differently. Unwatched discs are placed in their holders perfectly lined up straight so you can read the titles. Watched discs are placed in the set at a 90 degree angle. Just something I do to remind myself. Might be helpful to others if they are taking their sweet time making their way through the set.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by sherlockjr

I'm definitely "nobody"!

While some Poverty Row B pictures can be interesting; or way better than just "interesting", e.g. DETOUR. But the hundreds of 60 minute long Westerns cranked out in five days for the bottom half of rural double features and kids matinees are definitely of little interest to me. From those I have seen you've seen two or three you've seen them all. Along with the creaky serials and the like.

No shade on people who want to watch those B's--you do you, and I could see how they could be fun, just not for me (I don't think much of the many 1950s B SciFi films either, not my jam). But there's a reason that nobody even bothered to buy those assets and renew the copyrights when those Gower Gulch studios went belly up.

I can't be too contrary to your point as it's never easy to recommend such unknown quantities as the cheapest of the cheap movies nor their inherently repetitious nature. However, most of the films you describe here sound like great times to me so it is indeed a matter of personal taste and level of entertainment.

I think one of the reasons many of these films have copyrights that were not renewed is not necessarily because of their quality-or lack of same thereof, but because the owners were concentrating on trying to turn a quick profit more than paying the bills and breaking even or giving any consideration to the future. That's not an indication of the content or enjoyment value contained therein, just that these "studios" and production houses weren't visionary enough to focus on long term survival or compensation. It was all disposable beyond the short haul, but I hasten to reiterate that their entertainment value was not always comparable to their business plan.

For me they are my filmic equivalent of junk food, something I know how it tastes and that satisfies and comforts, but may not do anything beyond that or need to do anything beyond that. YMMV.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Driver78

I purchased the big Ingmar Bergman set around the time it was released; Been meaning to start delving into the collection but I don't know where to begin. I know these films are far from mainstream and might take a little time to get into so I need a recommendation. Where should I begin my Bergman journey? It's gotta be a film that will introduce a newbie like myself to the Director and won't make me run for the hills instead

I'd suggest to start with the Bergman trilogy - Through a Glass Darkly, Winter Light and The Silence. They're intimate small scale films which encompass his major themes very beautifully.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I think one of the reasons many of these films have copyrights that were not renewed is not necessarily because of their quality-or lack of same thereof, but because the owners were concentrating on trying to turn a quick profit more than paying the bills and breaking even or giving any consideration to the future. That's not an indication of the content or enjoyment value contained therein, just that these "studios" and production houses weren't visionary enough to focus on long term survival or compensation. It was all disposable beyond the short haul, but I hasten to reiterate that their entertainment value was not always comparable to their business plan.

That’s certainly part of it. I think perhaps a larger issue is that entities that had those films didn’t even know what they have. I mean, there’s wholesale confusion with rights and distribution even with contemporary films.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

If it was just the 2013 restoration I might read more into that, but they're clearly considering multiple sources (including from before he got into his deep revisionist period). The fact that Friedkin approved multiple discrete color timings - and I can only assume the 1998 print is far closer to the original grading, whatever that is - probably gives them more discretion.

Are there any A/B comparisons to the older transfers of the film, old home video releases, or theatrical prints? Yes, I know they're not always accurate, and in many cases they're very inaccurate, but you can at least get something of an idea even if they're not spot-on.

[poisonmail]

Originally Posted by Driver78

I purchased the big Ingmar Bergman set around the time it was released; Been meaning to start delving into the collection but I don't know where to begin. I know these films are far from mainstream and might take a little time to get into so I need a recommendation. Where should I begin my Bergman journey? It's gotta be a film that will introduce a newbie like myself to the Director and won't make me run for the hills instead

The first film in the set, Smiles of a Summer Night, is the perfect introduction; it was my first experience with Bergman back in 2005 and he’s one of my ten favorite directors of all now.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

Are there any A/B comparisons to the older transfers of the film, old home video releases, or theatrical prints? Yes, I know they're not always accurate, and in many cases they're very inaccurate, but you can at least get something of an idea even if they're not spot-on.

I haven't seen any, maybe largely because the film was in such ignored condition for so long. But starting from scratch with a fresh 4k scan of the negative, and referring to a 1990s print will probably go a long way towards whatever the original look was - though God knows color retention on the 5247 stock was a time-bomb and it might not even be possible to get back there.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by DimitriL

I haven't seen any, maybe largely because the film was in such ignored condition for so long. But starting from scratch with a fresh 4k scan of the negative, and referring to a 1990s print will probably go a long way towards whatever the original look was - though God knows color retention on the 5247 stock was a time-bomb and it might not even be possible to get back there.

The CRI bit worries me too, since CRI was basically the Eastmancolor of the 70s. One of the few bits of truth on my 1997 Star Wars tapes was that CRI is one of the worst elements in the business. Horrendously unstable, frequently discolors even after only a few years in proper storage, and sadly it was treated as a prime preservation element then, meaning thousands of films wound up stuck up the creek now.

Still, assuming the director wasn't a revisionist, the CRI bit can be overcome. The urge to play in one's sandbox can't.

[DimitriL]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

The CRI bit worries me too, since CRI was basically the Eastmancolor of the 70s. One of the few bits of truth on my 1997 Star Wars tapes was that CRI is one of the worst elements in the business. Horrendously unstable, frequently discolors even after only a few years in proper storage, and sadly it was treated as a prime preservation element then, meaning thousands of films wound up stuck up the creek now.

I think this is a fascinating situation, because they're dealing with multiple APPROVED sources that may be completely contradictory in terms of their timing. It's honestly really gratifying to hear that, because really, there was no reason that they had to take anything as a reference beyond the most recent director-approved grade. It actually undercuts them a little because they're forfeiting a possible "director approved" label on the video transfer, but I think it means they're really thinking about what the film was supposed to look like in the first place.

Of course, there will be some people who scream that, hey, this didn't look like Friedkin's version, and this didn't look the old video versions, and it doesn't look how I remembered the film looking in the theater, uh, 50 years ago. Maybe it's just a no-win situation. But I appreciate the care nonetheless.