The Criterion Collection

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by aladdin123

About the bolded part, it is honestly inevitable that it happens sometimes. I'm not saying you shouldn't consider blind buys, I'm saying that art is always going to be subjective.

And certainly Criterion is not the only brand of disc that has burned me on blind buys, but there have been times when the enthusiasm of the posts for a particular release on this thread have pushed me to buy some titles I was not previously considering and it didn't turn out so well. I don't blame anyone because I still had the choice to pull the trigger or not, but Criterion is one label where group think can be very misleading. As you said, art is subjective. Sometimes you take a chance and it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. But that's true for just about anything in life.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by poisonmail

Are there? I don’t even see that kind of behavior at the Criterion Forum, let alone here. Some of that comes out at the Reddit which is very collector-oriented, but on the forums I rarely see them get a break — which makes sense, the company has put forth a high standard and people expect it upheld. I find Criterion fascinating as a company and I have more of their releases than any other label but I have many, many criticisms. I just don’t see the fanboy behavior you’re referring to here. I feel it’s much more in the opposite direction, really.

I haven't made a deep study of it, but there are folks here who will defend anything and everything Criterion does and I don't feel that way about any business entity in the world. I am a born cynic and it doesn't always suit me well or lead to making friends very easily, but I have big trust issues with many things in the world. And just the conversation here in the past 24 hours will prove to you that there are people who cannot abide by any negative comments against Criterion. I've never seen anyone in the KINO thread get told to only post positive remarks about the label. Maybe Radiance and to a degree the retailer Vinegar Syndrome command a similar blind faith, but no other entity in the hobby yields that kind of universal trust that Criterion does.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by sherlockjr

Constant negativity and complaints is what turns people off from a forum. If the best you can do is the predictable "weak ass month" why bother? How does that add any sort of dialogue?

How do the constant, but positive posts that say only "DAY ONE" contribute? Why bother? There are negligible posts on both sides of the spectrum, whether positive or negative. Trying to censor one or the other or just consistently dismissing them takes away from this being a forum.

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Incessant negativity or positivity really don't contribute to a forum in my opinion, but I still welcome them all and will then make my own decisions. But a forum filled with all the same Pollyanna voices and perspectives goes nowhere and offers nothing.

Brand loyal or part of the PR team hiding in anonymity?

[Professor Echo]

^^^

Which reminds me: Where the hell is THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND? And I mean a release of it on disc, not the actual wind.

[Juan de Internet]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

And certainly Criterion is not the only brand of disc that has burned me on blind buys, but there have been times when the enthusiasm of the posts for a particular release on this thread have pushed me to buy some titles I was not previously considering and it didn't turn out so well. I don't blame anyone because I still had the choice to pull the trigger or not, but Criterion is one label where group think can be very misleading. As you said, art is subjective. Sometimes you take a chance and it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. But that's true for just about anything in life.

I think Criterion is one of the riskiest labels to be blind-buying from, because it is the most experimental of all the major labels, both in the sense of releasing semi-experimental films and in the sense of them experimenting with what titles they'll release. There are plenty of labels that release more obscure stuff than Criterion, but AFAIK those are all cult labels - i.e., they specialize in narrow genres where you mostly know what you're going to get even if you've never heard of the movie before. For example, giallo. Or a Freed musical.

For a new theatrical release from Criterion, I have little reference for what to expect. Except to expect that people who have seen it (and thus have interesting opinions) are going to be far outside the mainstream and thus I lack reference to what their tastes are. Or to put it more realistically but prejudicially, will likely be a certain narrow demographic of theirs whose taste (and politics) I do recognize and have very little in common with.

Don't get me wrong: I love what Criterion is doing and I have discovered titles I love due to their releases. But I always borrow it from the library first if I haven't already seen it. Warner Archive, though? I'll occasionally blind buy from them.

[sherlockjr]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

How do the constant, but positive posts that say only "DAY ONE" contribute? Why bother? There are negligible posts on both sides of the spectrum, whether positive or negative. Trying to censor one or the other or just consistently dismissing them takes away from this being a forum.

The "Day One" posts add little. But they do exhibit enthusiasm, which is far more appealing to many--even when you don't share that particular enthusiasm--than negativity.

Negativity in social media/forum tends to lead to more negativity in the same location. Which then leads to the departure of those who feel they have better things to do than read that much negativity. For most--though surely not all--people it's just not much fun. Also for most people social media isn't a job, it's for pleasure. If they're not having fun they'll just move on.

Supported, informative negative comments, are useful and illuminating. As often will be the responses, positive or negative. "Weak ass month" informs nothing at all.

A rundown of why each film in such a month is weak or ass and should never have been released by anyone, let alone Criterion, could start an interesting discussion.

I'd love to see such a reasoned critical commentary on the Criterion August releases. Because I can't imagine what they would be--even if some of these particular titles might not be ones I would personally choose to see.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I've never seen anyone in the KINO thread get told to only post positive remarks about the label. Maybe Radiance and to a degree the retailer Vinegar Syndrome command a similar blind faith, but no other entity in the hobby yields that kind of universal trust that Criterion does.

I'd actually argue a lot of the shine has come off VS lately. Plenty of complaints from subscribers in that thread about the lesser quality of films now getting the costly "special edition" treatment. I think it just goes to show that any label will have its up and down cycles.

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I haven't made a deep study of it, but there are folks here who will defend anything and everything Criterion does [...]
And just the conversation here in the past 24 hours will prove to you that there are people who cannot abide by any negative comments against Criterion.

In counterpoint, Professor, it always feels like you're especially cynical about Criterion. I didn't see anyone in this recent conversation being criticized for making negative comments about Criterion in general. Rather, most of the discussion was about the August titles - many of us felt that was a truly epic slate they announced, and were surprised at the number of "meh" reactions it generated. Very little if anything at all either criticizing or defending the label itself.

[Juan de Internet]

Originally Posted by sherlockjr

The "Day One" posts add little. But they do exhibit enthusiasm, which is far more appealing to many--even when you don't share that particular enthusiasm--than negativity.

Negativity in social media/forum tends to lead to more negativity in the same location. Which then leads to the departure of those who feel they have better things to do than read that much negativity. For most--though surely not all--people it's just not much fun. Also for most people social media isn't a job, it's for pleasure. If they're not having fun they'll just move on.

Supported, informative negative comments, are useful and illuminating. As often will be the responses, positive or negative. "Weak ass month" informs nothing at all.

A rundown of why each film in such a month is weak or ass and should never have been released by anyone, let alone Criterion, could start an interesting discussion.

I'd love to see such a reasoned critical commentary on the Criterion August releases. Because I can't imagine what they would be--even if some of these particular titles might not be ones I would personally choose to see.

I like the points on both sides of this conversation, so that's why I'm chiming in to encourage further discussion.

My take is I want to encourage all viewpoints and commentary, regardless of how detailed or informed or objective - as long as it is related to the stuff being announced. What I find tiring about "Weak ass month" is not that they have negative things to say about the movies the thread is supposed to be about, but that they have nothing at all to say about them and yet feel the need to express their opinion about every announcement.

What I mean by that is not that "Weak ass month" is an insufficiently reasoned argument; I mean that what it is really saying is "they didn't release my wishlist and I never heard of these movies before therefore Criterion did something wrong". And I can't count the number of ways in which that is missing the point of either Criterion Collection or a forum thread.

[jw007]

Just about everyone and their mother have posted about the "weak ass month" response here, and if we were living in a Noah Baumbach film, someone would respond with: PHILISTINE!

It really comes down to personal taste. Personally, I appreciate all of these titles even though they don't "speak to me." But I won't diss Criterion for their choices, because every month for years on end we have seen a shit ton of diverse films released.

This may be one of the most polarizing announcements in some time, but as long as it gets people talking, then The Criterion Collection is still as relevant as ever!

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by sherlockjr

The "Day One" posts add little. But they do exhibit enthusiasm, which is far more appealing to many--even when you don't share that particular enthusiasm--than negativity.

Negativity in social media/forum tends to lead to more negativity in the same location. Which then leads to the departure of those who feel they have better things to do than read that much negativity. For most--though surely not all--people it's just not much fun. Also for most people social media isn't a job, it's for pleasure. If they're not having fun they'll just move on.

Supported, informative negative comments, are useful and illuminating. As often will be the responses, positive or negative. "Weak ass month" informs nothing at all.

A rundown of why each film in such a month is weak or ass and should never have been released by anyone, let alone Criterion, could start an interesting discussion.

I'd love to see such a reasoned critical commentary on the Criterion August releases. Because I can't imagine what they would be--even if some of these particular titles might not be ones I would personally choose to see.

I agree.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

I'd actually argue a lot of the shine has come off VS lately. Plenty of complaints from subscribers in that thread about the lesser quality of films now getting the costly "special edition" treatment. I think it just goes to show that any label will have its up and down cycles.

Yeah, I was basing my remark on visiting that thread awhile back. I personally don't buy much, if anything, from Vinegar Syndrome so I don't know what the current vibe about them is. However, if what you say is true, I agree with those negative posts. I am not a fan of the label and don't like when they get films off their radar and then charge as much for them as if they were the cultish horror porn titles they usually unearth, e.g. the middling western FIVE CARD STUD which was priced way out of proportion and made me wish KINO had gotten it.

Originally Posted by CRASHLANDING

In counterpoint, Professor, it always feels like you're especially cynical about Criterion. I didn't see anyone in this recent conversation being criticized for making negative comments about Criterion in general. Rather, most of the discussion was about the August titles - many of us felt that was a truly epic slate they announced, and were surprised at the number of "meh" reactions it generated. Very little if anything at all either criticizing or defending the label itself.

I can't disagree with you, CL, it is borne of habit and sometimes just switches on. My cynicism comes from my upbringing in the 60's of never trusting the establishment and believe me it is set on high alert 24/7 these days so I will rarely accept any business entity unconditionally and rarely give them the benefit of the doubt. You are probably right that it hasn't crossed over into that territory yet in this current discussion, but I'm anticipating it will and some of the same old cheerleaders will pirouette in with their usual blind faith in the label, which I would add to the chorus of those who think of as certain posts that don't contribute anything.

[Show spoiler]

[Juan de Internet]

Am I weird that I genuinely like it when Criterion announces nothing I want? Not in the "I'm happy for everybody else and bravo to Criterion for keeping up the good fight" way, but in the "Criterions are expensive and I'd rather the films I want be released by a cheaper label like Kino or Warner Archive"?

I like to think that I'm above collecting discs - that I collect movies and not discs - but Criterion is at least one exception where I do feel some compulsion to Collect the Collection. It has resulted in ill-advised purchases before, even when they were not blind buys. For instance, I don't regret having Charulata in my collection, but it's honestly not worth $20 to me.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Juan de Internet

Am I weird that I genuinely like it when Criterion announces nothing I want? Not in the "I'm happy for everybody else and bravo to Criterion for keeping up the good fight" way, but in the "Criterions are expensive and I'd rather the films I want be released by a cheaper label like Kino or Warner Archive"?

I like to think that I'm above collecting discs - that I collect movies and not discs - but Criterion is at least one exception where I do feel some compulsion to Collect the Collection. It has resulted in ill-advised purchases before, even when they were not blind buys. For instance, I don't regret having Charulata in my collection, but it's honestly not worth $20 to me.

No, it’s not weird. I tend to be a completist and if there is one label I would do it with if I could afford it, it would be Indicator. But Criterion would run a close second because I enjoy the variety in their choices. The Criterion Channel, which I consider the second best network in the history of television (after TCM) wound up curbing my completism on Criterion discs as well as not having unlimited funds.

I also agree with your feeling when a label, any label, announces titles I am not interested in and being somewhat relieved I can save the money. To be honest, as much as I want KINO to strike a deal with Warner Brothers, it also petrifies me and my sorry bank account.

[Hatchet Jack]

e.g. the middling western FIVE CARD STUD which was priced way out of proportion and made me wish KINO had gotten it.

BTW, FCS is currently $17.36 on Amazon if anyone is interested. I bought it last July for $4 more.

[DWeickerSr]

I think part of the reason why 'weak ass month' is warranted is that Criterion are known for acquiring much-requested, much-loved titles and sitting on them for years and years and years
(I'm looking at you I Know Where I'm Going, at you Captain Blood, at you ...)

Not everyone is looking for a 4K upgrade of a previously released blu, or a 4K re-release of another distributor's 4K. Some people are justifiably upset at the stranglehold Criterion has on some of their 'known' acquisitions.

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by DWeickerSr

I think part of the reason why 'weak ass month' is warranted is that Criterion are known for acquiring much-requested, much-loved titles and sitting on them for years and years and years
(I'm looking at you I Know Where I'm Going, at you Captain Blood, at you ...)

In other words, English-language movies. It gives credence to my suspicion that the pushback has more to do with anti-foreign-language bias than anything else.

Originally Posted by DWeickerSr

Not everyone is looking for a 4K upgrade of a previously released blu, or a 4K re-release of another distributor's 4K.

But this month none of that happened, and yet still we have to read "weak ass month".

[Juan de Internet]

Originally Posted by DWeickerSr

I think part of the reason why 'weak ass month' is warranted is that Criterion are known for acquiring much-requested, much-loved titles and sitting on them for years and years and years
(I'm looking at you I Know Where I'm Going, at you Captain Blood, at you ...)

Not everyone is looking for a 4K upgrade of a previously released blu, or a 4K re-release of another distributor's 4K. Some people are justifiably upset at the stranglehold Criterion has on some of their 'known' acquisitions.

I was not aware they were sitting on I Know Where I'm Going and Captain Blood, two of my most-wanted films. So thank you very much for that information.

But that's part of the point I want to make: let's give constructive feedback and insight into where Criterion is not fulfulling either its stated purpose or the desires of its regular customers, rather than the chorus of "nothing for me this month" which states nothing I'm interested in. I don't care if you're Martin Scorsese; I couldn't care less what you're buying this month when reading the news of a new home video release. I read the comments to find out more information and context about the release.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Hatchet Jack

e.g. the middling western FIVE CARD STUD which was priced way out of proportion and made me wish KINO had gotten it.

BTW, FCS is currently $17.36 on Amazon if anyone is interested. I bought it last July for $4 more.

Thanks Hatchet Jack. I hope your two broke legs are doing better.

[borntorun_intheusa]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

^^^

Which reminds me: Where the hell is THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND? And I mean a release of it on disc, not the actual wind.

1000% I'm kind of shocked Criterion hasn't scooped that up already. More deserving than maybe some other (non-Scorsese) acquired titles from Netflix...