The Criterion Collection

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by jacobsever

Silly community college Lit class.
I was considering doing it on The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, because I've always wanted to see that film, and I noticed earlier today it's actually on Netflix.

Edit * Someone is doing a Harry Potter film, and the teacher has agreed that it fits as "gothic".

Your teacher is copping out. As much as I love Potter, it's not gothic. To Kill a Mockingbird has more gothic elements in it (it's classified a Southern Gothic due to Boo Radley) than Harry Potter.

Also, she's wrong about horror films not being gothic, unless she means modern ones. Universal Horror films and all the ones Vincent Price did in the 50s and 60s can be classified as gothic.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

Speaking of Truffaut. Do you need to watch 400 blows before you watch Stolen Kisses? Is there a connection between the two or is it just the same character?

Not really. It's a good idea though.

[ccfixx]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Those are just the first few off the top of my head, and not all are out on BD.

Not out on blu-ray? Well, heck, how in the world am I supposed to watch movies if they aren't available on blu-ray???

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

Speaking of Truffaut. Do you need to watch 400 blows before you watch Stolen Kisses? Is there a connection between the two or is it just the same character?

Yes, in fact you need to watch The 400 Blows then Antoine and Colette which is on the DVD for "Blows". Then you watch Stolen Kisses, Bed & Board and lastly Love on the Run. To get the full scope you should watch them in order.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by ccfixx

Not out on blu-ray? Well, heck, how in the world am I supposed to watch movies if they aren't available on blu-ray???

Well, there are these disc thingies that look a lot like Blu-ray, called DVDs, that you can buy, or borrow from the library. I heard that the picture quality is "inferior," but supposedly they'll play in your Blu-ray machine.

There's also this magical thing people use called the Netflix. I haven't used it, but it comes through your internets.

[ccfixx]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Well, there are these disc thingies that look a lot like Blu-ray, called DVDs, that you can buy, or borrow from the library. I heard that the picture quality is "inferior," but supposedly they'll play in your Blu-ray machine.

There's also this magical thing people use called the Netflix. I haven't used it, but it comes through your internets.

This all sounds so foreign to me. You Canadians seem to have everything.

[blkhrt]

Originally Posted by jacobsever

Silly community college Lit class.
I was considering doing it on The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, because I've always wanted to see that film, and I noticed earlier today it's actually on Netflix.

Edit * Someone is doing a Harry Potter film, and the teacher has agreed that it fits as "gothic".

I wrote my dissertation on gothic American literature, and I would say that it really depends on the terms you used in class, as mentioned in the assignment. Gothic can mean a lot of things, and as a genre it is fairly encompassing. In fact, many of the genres we are familiar with today have their roots in gothic literature. For example you can trace detective fiction and science fiction back to the gothic, so, for some, detective films and science fiction films would also fall under the gothic rubric. (I would also disagree about slasher films, but that is a different story). The easiest direction to take it would be to pick one of the old Universal horror films, like Frankenstein or Bride of Frankenstein, which incorporates aspects of Mary Shelley's preface to the 1831 edition.

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by jacobsever

Are there any films in the Criterion Collection that would be considered "gothic"?

Are you talking about Hammer Horror-Gothic, or more Twilight/teen angst (AKA, not-Gothic)?

[jacobsever]

Originally Posted by blkhrt

I wrote my dissertation on gothic American literature, and I would say that it really depends on the terms you used in class, as mentioned in the assignment. Gothic can mean a lot of things, and as a genre it is fairly encompassing. In fact, many of the genres we are familiar with today have their roots in gothic literature. For example you can trace detective fiction and science fiction back to the gothic, so, for some, detective films and science fiction films would also fall under the gothic rubric. (I would also disagree about slasher films, but that is a different story). The easiest direction to take it would be to pick one of the old Universal horror films, like Frankenstein or Bride of Frankenstein, which incorporates aspects of Mary Shelley's preface to the 1831 edition.

It's an online class that I honestly haven't even looked at until now (2 weeks in). She gave us a power point, and a reading on the "Elements of the Gothic Novel" which include :

[Show spoiler]1. Setting in a Castle
2. Atmosphere of mystery and suspense
3. An ancient prophecy
4. Omens, portents, or visions
5. Supernatural or otherwise unexplainable events
6. High, even overwrought emotions
7. Women in distress
8. Women threatened by a powerful, impulsive, tyrannical male
9. The metonymy of gloom and horror
10. The vocabulary of the gothic

On the power point she says :

[Show spoiler]Horror : Carrie is not, yet The Shining is
Science fiction : The Martian Chronicles is not, yet The Matrix is
Psychological thrillers : The Game is not, yet Psycho is

[Rizor]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

Speaking of Truffaut. Do you need to watch 400 blows before you watch Stolen Kisses? Is there a connection between the two or is it just the same character?

It's the same character, but I don't think you necessarily have to watch the 400 Blows before Stolen Kisses. 400 Blows is a drama about childhood and how tough it can be. Stolen Kisses is a light romantic comedy. It's technically the same dude, but you don't need to know about his upbringing to enjoy Stolen Kisses. But if you have any interest in watching the other films in the Antoine Doinel saga, you should watch them in order.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

The fact is that you haven't seen The 400 Blows, which is something you should try to remedy post-haste.

About halfway through Kes I had what felt an awful lot like an epiphany and thought 'ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I wonder if this is how The 400 Blows was supposed to make me feel'.

I've only seen The 400 Blows once and there were pieces that stood out but overall I really didn't see what all the fuss is about. Afterward I looked up Ebert's review to at least get some hints about what I was missing and I walked away from that thinking 'okay, maybe you just had to be there'.

[Narcissus]

Originally Posted by spiderbaby

are you talking about hammer horror-gothic, or more twilight/teen angst (aka, not-gothic)?

score!

[blkhrt]

Originally Posted by jacobsever

It's an online class that I honestly haven't even looked at until now (2 weeks in). She gave us a power point, and a reading on the "Elements of the Gothic Novel" which include :

[Show spoiler]1. Setting in a Castle
2. Atmosphere of mystery and suspense
3. An ancient prophecy
4. Omens, portents, or visions
5. Supernatural or otherwise unexplainable events
6. High, even overwrought emotions
7. Women in distress
8. Women threatened by a powerful, impulsive, tyrannical male
9. The metonymy of gloom and horror
10. The vocabulary of the gothic

On the power point she says :

[Show spoiler]Horror : Carrie is not, yet The Shining is
Science fiction : The Martian Chronicles is not, yet The Matrix is
Psychological thrillers : The Game is not, yet Psycho is

Interesting list, in part because I taught Carrie in a class on the gothic a couple of years ago (*edit: to be fair, it was a class the was also considering the way descendents of the gothic adapted its conventions). It sounds like your teacher is sticking with a pretty traditional definition. If you want to do something in the Criterion collection I would suggest either Corridors of Blood or the Haunted Strangler from the Monsters and Madmen set, or perhaps Eyes without a Face. Rebecca works really well too, if you are a Hitchcock fan, and it fits most of the qualifications on that list.

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by jacobsever

Silly community college Lit class.
I was considering doing it on The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, because I've always wanted to see that film, and I noticed earlier today it's actually on Netflix.

Edit * Someone is doing a Harry Potter film, and the teacher has agreed that it fits as "gothic".

What about La Belle et la Bête?*

*It's just a suggestion. Don't shoot me down

[blkhrt]

Originally Posted by drbikeshorts

What about La Belle et la Bête?*

*It's just a suggestion. Don't shoot me down

Oooohhhh...good call! That would be a good one, in my opinion.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

I knew the haters would come out!

But isn't it odd that someone would knowingly go to a later Doinel film, and knowingly ignore the monumental (regardless of what you may think of it) establishing film? At least give me that. I suppose he has his reasons?

Hate the game, baby, not the hater.

But, yeah...unless I stumbled across a later entry in a pawnshop or something I would always be inclined to start a series at the beginning even if the beginning wasn't held in such high esteem.

[blujazz]

Looking through the Criterion list, here's some that, I think, can be classified as Gothic (or films that include Gothic tropes):

The Beauty and the Beast
Diabolique (The return of the repressed, female gothic)
Kuroneko
Paris, Texas (Male Hysteria)
Antichrist (Gothic until it becomes downright Horror)
Cronos
Repulsion

Harry Potter, can be argued as having a Gothic influence (Castles etc) but it's really more adolescent fantasy fiction and arguing for it as a gothic text is just a bit lazy.

If you're looking for an excuse to buy something from Criterion, I would recommend going for Diabolique as you can really milk a lot for it being a female gothic text (these usually are set in the bathroom, a very feminine space) and also they are usually domestic. You can also comment on the doubling in the text, as the two protagonists are practically yin and yang of each other (note: Black Swan is a good gothic text for the double as well, also Dead Ringers by Cronenberg -- the double and also male paranoia.)

To go basic, go with Psycho: The haunted house as a metaphor for the psyche: as in the superego, the ego and the id and also it touches on the female gothic.

Curiously, the slasher film can also be gothic, granted it shouldn't show much blood. Slasher film villains usually have this unresolved oedipal complex. The knife as a very phallic murder weapon, creating giant bloody feminine orifices on his victims (sorry for the graphic description hehehe)

The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari is a good start to identify Gothic conventions. I'm having a bit of a hard time remembering it though, since the last time I saw it was more than 6 months ago. :\

[zeroman987]

Originally Posted by blujazz

Looking through the Criterion list, here's some that, I think, can be classified as Gothic (or films that include Gothic tropes):

...
Diabolique (The return of the repressed, female gothic)
...

Ohh I really like this one. The school interiors really feel like a castle but it really didn't click as important until now.

[*DrStrangelove*]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

I knew the haters would come out!

But isn't it odd that someone would knowingly go to a later Doinel film, and knowingly ignore the monumental (regardless of what you may think of it) establishing film? At least give me that. I suppose he has his reasons?

I plan on getting 400 blows on blu ray eventually. I'm the type of person who likes blind buying (I dunno I'm weird). I guess I kind of want my first time seeing it to be in HD. They have 400 blows and Stolen Kisses on Hulu. I wanted to check out another Truffaut after watching Shoot the Piano Player. I guess ill just wait till I buy the 400 blows.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by jacobsever

It's an online class that I honestly haven't even looked at until now (2 weeks in). She gave us a power point, and a reading on the "Elements of the Gothic Novel" which include :

[Show spoiler]1. Setting in a Castle
2. Atmosphere of mystery and suspense
3. An ancient prophecy
4. Omens, portents, or visions
5. Supernatural or otherwise unexplainable events
6. High, even overwrought emotions
7. Women in distress
8. Women threatened by a powerful, impulsive, tyrannical male
9. The metonymy of gloom and horror
10. The vocabulary of the gothic

Ha! That sounds like a Corman-Price-Poe movie!