The Criterion Collection

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by octagon

No it hasn't.

(ding!) That's it. Good morning.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I disagree with that statement. I guess I expected better of this forum, because it seems that anytime someone mentions Dunham, it's in a trolltastic way. I'm just as guilty of it. Why are people only attacking her? Even Wes Anderson and Uwe Boll don't seem to get this kind of hate. I don't have a problem with discussion, but it seems like the criticism against Dunham is more excessive than others, and 90% of it isn't on her film.

I can only speak for myself, as others making fun of her is for effect, which has obviously worked, but for a rookie filmmaker that has a second rate film to be considered an 'important' film seems silly. Criterion's motto is 'important classic and contemporary films' not mine. If someone can show me the 'importance' of her film, I would reconsider. As for other directors getting 'hate', if I remember, you were one of the first in line scolding me about my dislike for Wes, but my memory could be fuzzy. I think if Lena is going to be a shill or new poster child for Criterion, frankly like Wes always has been, she needs to receive the same criticism he has been getting for years. Seems only fair....

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by jcs913

I can only speak for myself, as others making fun of her is for effect, which has obviously worked, but for a rookie filmmaker that has a second rate film to be considered an 'important' film seems silly. Criterion's motto is 'important classic and contemporary films' not mine. If someone can show me the 'importance' of her film, I would reconsider. As for other directors getting 'hate', if I remember, you were one of the first in line scolding me about my dislike for Wes, but my memory could be fuzzy. I think if Lena is going to be a shill or new poster child for Criterion, frankly like Wes always has been, she needs to receive the same criticism he has been getting for years. Seems only fair....

Wasn't me, I don't even like Wes all that much with the exception of Fantastic Mr. Fox and Life Aquatic. Even then, they're not my top films in my collection.

[*DrStrangelove*]

Originally Posted by rock, stone

I'm totally wrong. I really thought it got a dvd release for some reason.

Still the comparison stands. I don't like Chasing Amy much, but it is bad for slightly different reasons.

Wow wow, there is no way Clerks or Chasing Amy compare to Tiny Furniture. Clerks was a dialog driven movie and Tiny Furniture's dialogue is dull and boring. Id say the complete opposite of Clerks. And atleast Chasing Amy had a story and likable characters. Sure Joey Lauren Adams voice makes you want to rip your ears out but Banky was a very fun quotable character. I don't see the similarities.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by jcs913

BG, the more I thought about the bold, as this unfairly has added to my further dislike for the film. I, as many other are, not privy to why Criterion would include a film like this into the collection and pass on a great film like Certified Copy befuddles me. I think the scales of justice would heavily be in favor of Certified Copy as more of a consistent Criterion release. Frankly, I believe that Criterion is trying to include more modern female directors into the collection at the expense of quality, but again, that is my opinion.

By the way, I did read those comments she made about film and agree 100% with retablo. You have to understand the realm of your craft before you can pass an 'informed' judgment on it. I will say it would have been hilarious and mildly redeeming if her interest Keith had a last name of Corleone.....

Certified Copy is terrific. I won't even get into what doesn't deserve to be in the collection.

To me Certified Copy is EASILY worthy of a spine. It's hard to fathom Criterion passing on it.

I'll just keep loving my AE blu (even if its slim extras are in crappy 480p).

[moumou1210]

I haven't seen a 1 of those movies on that list!

[oildude]

Originally Posted by retablo

Just to clarify MY comments, I wasn't bashing her for not seeing The Godfather. I was bashing her flippant comments ABOUT not having seen it. Again, as a filmmaker, it's her responsibility to engage in all art regarding her craft, because that's how you learn. If she refuses to even watch acknowledged classics, then tries to be cool by posting in public about her defiance, then she is going to get criticism from those who respect cinema more than she does.

Well said, retablo.

[SpiderBaby]

Criterion's "mission" is a joke. No need to keep bringing up what they say they will release. The fact is they don't release "World Cinema". Only films they can get the rights to, films that will make a profit, and films they prefer (obviously someone who works there loves Island of Lost Souls, so they put that in. That simple.). It's a dvd company folks, not something you should base film history on (just like I always said "TOP" lists are nothing to base anything on either).

They obviously can't get the rights to Brazilian Cinema so what are they going to say....... "Since 1984, the Criterion Collection, a continuing series of important classic and contemporary films, has been dedicated to gathering the greatest films from around the world ...... besides Third World. You know, pretty much just America, Japan, Europe, with one or 2 from Russia. Criterion Collection B**ch!".

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Ok, you're posting this online. You're in the public eye, so you're now fair game. You're acting like a pretentious snob who can't see beyond his own nose and appears to be very bitter about Dunham being more successful than you, since you keep bringing up the fact that you are a screen writer and have been working for years to get a picture made. You obviously can't respect Dunham because you choose to judge her without looking at her films. You're condescending to a lot of posters on this forum and give film fans a bad name because you are a walking stereotype of pretentious film snob.

At least that's the image you present to me with your posts in this thread, and several others. Again, you left yourself open to attack, and you'll just retaliate with more posturing and accuse me of a few things, or even report me to a moderator if you're so inclined, because I made a personal attack towards you.

I'm done with this now, as it's turned into the argument sketch.

Haha not in the slightest.. however i DO respect film and DO watch all kinds of movies and don't pre-judge them like the "pretentious snob" that she is acting like... not me. For the record, I have one film going into production and 2 more scripts sold, so I'm not worried about my career.

But I stand my my opinion. You can't be a lawyer withut knowing all the important cases; you can't work in ANY field without knowing the major advances in that field. By choosing to ignore at least one of the major films in the last 50 years, she shows disreagrd for cinema as a whole. And it wouldn't be surprising if her lack of respect for great cinema is the very reason why her film is not very well liked or regarded.

And I don't care if you make personal attacks against me... that's just shows your character. I choose to be above that. I'm sorry you're not. I choose to stick to the discussion at hand, but if all you can counter with is personal attacks, then I'm glad you're not a lawyer.

[ccfixx]

Originally Posted by rkish

The Momitsu would be an older player than the Insignia...it does both the PAL to NTSC conversion and can play 50i content. I haven't had any problems with films or supplements...right Chris?

You bet your sweet apple bottom that's right!

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

Wow wow, there is no way Clerks or Chasing Amy compare to Tiny Furniture. Clerks was a dialog driven movie and Tiny Furniture's dialogue is dull and boring. Id say the complete opposite of Clerks. And atleast Chasing Amy had a story and likable characters. Sure Joey Lauren Adams voice makes you want to rip your ears out but Banky was a very fun quotable character. I don't see the similarities.

I was not intending to compare Chasing Amy to Tiny Furniture, so I'll stick with Clerks. I already mentioned how they relate to each other in terms of how they represent their respective generation's increasing ability to make movies for cheap, so I'll talk about the movies themselves.

Both Clerks and TF are about characters stuck in some form of arrested development at similar points in their lives. Both films express themselves through the characters (and arguably the film makers') pretensions. Whether they be working class nerds or upper class art douches, all these characters talk and complain, suffer various social and sexual humiliations in lieu of much happening plot wise, and end up about close to where they started.

I know Kevin Smith has a devoted following, but just because I liked Star Wars, doesn't mean I am entertained by people talking about Star Wars.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by retablo

Haha not in the slightest.. however i DO respect film and DO watch all kinds of movies and don't pre-judge them like the "pretentious snob" that she is acting like... not me. For the record, I have one film going into production and 2 more scripts sold, so I'm not worried about my career.

But I stand my my opinion. You can't be a lawyer withut knowing all the important cases; you can't work in ANY field without knowing the major advances in that field. By choosing to ignore at least one of the major films in the last 50 years, she shows disreagrd for cinema as a whole. And it wouldn't be surprising if her lack of respect for great cinema is the very reason why her film is not very well liked or regarded.

And I don't care if you make personal attacks against me... that's just shows your character. I choose to be above that. I'm sorry you're not. I choose to stick to the discussion at hand, but if all you can counter with is personal attacks, then I'm glad you're not a lawyer.

Her film is not well liked or regarded on this forum. Big difference: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/tiny...pe=top_critics - There's some who dislike it, but other who do.

Again, you missed the point. Your presence on this message board and the way you present yourself online can give one that impression. I'm actually disappointed that you think I'm personally attacking you, when I find your posts to be insightful, and I do enjoy debating with you, without resorting to personal attacks. I built up that critique by cherrypicking some of your posts, and taking them out of context. I really don't think that way of you at all, I was just using you as an example.

You've obviously written me off completely with that one post where I pointed out how people can easily perceive you as such based one 1-2 posts on a internet forum, based on how they interpret what you write. You're doing the exact same thing to Dunham, based on one or two film reviews posted online.

Just one question though, have you actually watched Tiny Furniture yet? Or have you passed judgement based on a few short clips, and even if you do decide to watch it, are you just going to completely write it off?

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

Criterion's "mission" is a joke. No need to keep bringing up what they say they will release. The fact is they don't release "World Cinema". Only films they can get the rights to, films that will make a profit, and films they prefer (obviously someone who works there loves Island of Lost Souls, so they put that in. That simple.). It's a dvd company folks, not something you should base film history on (just like I always said "TOP" lists are nothing to base anything on either).

They obviously can't get the rights to Brazilian Cinema so what are they going to say....... "Since 1984, the Criterion Collection, a continuing series of important classic and contemporary films, has been dedicated to gathering the greatest films from around the world ...... besides Third World. You know, pretty much just America, Japan, Europe, with one or 2 from Russia. Criterion Collection B**ch!".

This. Hence my comment as to Criterion have their reasons, and maybe they feel that the indie buzz Dunham is getting is a good enough reason to add it, or someone really liked the film. People seem to think Criterion is the be all and end all of cinematic experiences, and have their own perception of what the collection should be, which is not the same as what Criterion thinks their collection should be.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I'm done with this now, as it's turned into the argument sketch.

???? So much drama. I haven't looked at my calendar today. Did I miss something? Is it Grumpy Librarian Day? The only one arguing is you.

God help the poor fool who walks in with an overdue book.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by oildude

???? So much drama. I haven't looked at my calendar today. Did I miss something? Is it Grumpy Librarian Day? The only one arguing is you.

God help the poor fool who walks in with an overdue book.

It was a joke. I'm not grumpy at all.

FWIW, I don't work in a traditional library, and there's no due dates on our materials.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

We get it already, joie.

Awful lot of dead horses around here lately.

And to add to it:

David Thomson opens an essay on the Red Riding trilogy by stating: “Red Riding is better than The Godfather.” I’m not sure if this is true, because I’ve never seen The Godfather. According to every guy I’ve ever dated, this renders me ineligible for making films or even discussing them. But I know myself, for better or worse, and mafia narratives (be they tragic, comic, starring a Pacino, a De Niro, or even my beloved Hugh Grant) leave me utterly cold. I guess I’m generally nonplussed by a complex web of crime. For instance, I cannot get into The Wire and refuse to be sorry, or to “hang on until season two.”

Here are some things I do like: serial killers (especially ones that prey on prostitutes, behavior I do not condone but enjoy seeing investigated by hard-nosed police detectives); the filthy, funny-sad realism of Mike Leigh, Ken Loach, Lynne Ramsay; and the British Broadcasting Corporation. The BBC is the home of all things delicious: sitcoms like Ab Fab and Gavin and Stacy, bodice-ripping miniseries, and Prime Suspect, a procedural drama starring Helen Mirren as hot-***** Vice Squad detective Jane Tennyson. It’s the only cop show ever to get me going.

I don't interpret this as flippant. From the posts in this forum, she's kinda speaking the truth. Also, Hammer to Nail isn't Dunham's personal blog, and she hasn't posted a review in almost 2 years. There are other reviews on there that are halfways interesting that reference quite a few interesting tidbits of classic cinema.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Her film is not well liked or regarded on this forum. Big difference: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/tiny...pe=top_critics - There's some who dislike it, but other who do.

Again, you missed the point. Your presence on this message board and the way you present yourself online can give one that impression. I'm actually disappointed that you think I'm personally attacking you, when I find your posts to be insightful, and I do enjoy debating with you, without resorting to personal attacks. I built up that critique by cherrypicking some of your posts, and taking them out of context. I really don't think that way of you at all, I was just using you as an example.

You've obviously written me off completely with that one post where I pointed out how people can easily perceive you as such based one 1-2 posts on a internet forum, based on how they interpret what you write. You're doing the exact same thing to Dunham, based on one or two film reviews posted online.

Just one question though, have you actually watched Tiny Furniture yet? Or have you passed judgement based on a few short clips, and even if you do decide to watch it, are you just going to completely write it off?

I have no ill will against you, I enjoy your posts too. I haven't seen Tiny Furniture, but I never judged the film, only its maker. I may watch it, may not.

Taken "out of context" or not, I still see her comments as egotistical, like she's "better" than The Godfather, a multiple Oscar winner and a film way more heralded than her movie. Perhaps if she actually stopped judging classic films and embraced them, she might learn a little more about her craft.

Really, she has no place, after one little indie film, to make statements like that. I doubt she would want people saying "I won't watch Tiny Furniture because I hate low budget indie dramas with no movie stars." I assume she'd want everyone to watch her film, because, you know, that's how careers are made. But the attitude she displays in her posts turns me off to her personality, and IF that same personality comes through in her films, then I can probably bet I wouldn't care for them. That's not a judgement, just an assumption, but I won't know until I watch the film.

It just incenses me because I see it happen all the time in this business... People make one film, then think they are above what came before them. That's like saying, well, because I listen to Justin Bieber, I won't ever listen to the Beatles. It makes zero sense. Especially working within an art form, you learn by experiencing AS MUCH as you can - whether right, or wrong. I can recall several films I had NO interest in seeing - but I didn't prejudge them, watched them, and you know what? Now they are a few of my very favorite films. Point is, you NEVER know where inspiration will come from, you never know what films or books or music you will connect with until you give them a chacne. if she is too stubborn or whatever, then that's her problem, I guess. All I know is, if I displayed the same attitude as her, then I would've skipped those movies and deprived myself of what has become a couple of my big influences.

That's all, lol. I'm not arguing with you, just arguing against her and the attitude I perceive her to have. And by her comments, it's a justified perception. I guess only time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

[punisher]

Gojira arrived.............will let you know later how it is....

[blujazz]

Question about the packaging.

Since I order my stuff from Barnes and Noble, the plastic seal is still on. And sometimes when I unwrap it, there's this annoying residue on the spine (i'm guessing that's where the adhesive is put on). Any advice on getting rid of it?

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by retablo

I have no ill will against you, I enjoy your posts too. I haven't seen Tiny Furniture, but I never judged the film, only its maker. I may watch it, may not.

Taken "out of context" or not, I still see her comments as egotistical, like she's "better" than The Godfather, a multiple Oscar winner and a film way more heralded than her movie. Perhaps if she actually stopped judging classic films and embraced them, she might learn a little more about her craft.

Really, she has no place, after one little indie film, to make statements like that. I doubt she would want people saying "I won't watch Tiny Furniture because I hate low budget indie dramas with no movie stars." I assume she'd want everyone to watch her film, because, you know, that's how careers are made. But the attitude she displays in her posts turns me off to her personality, and IF that same personality comes through in her films, then I can probably bet I wouldn't care for them. That's not a judgement, just an assumption, but I won't know until I watch the film.

It just incenses me because I see it happen all the time in this business... People make one film, then think they are above what came before them. That's like saying, well, because I listen to Justin Bieber, I won't ever listen to the Beatles. It makes zero sense. Especially working within an art form, you learn by experiencing AS MUCH as you can - whether right, or wrong. I can recall several films I had NO interest in seeing - but I didn't prejudge them, watched them, and you know what? Now they are a few of my very favorite films. Point is, you NEVER know where inspiration will come from, you never know what films or books or music you will connect with until you give them a chacne. if she is too stubborn or whatever, then that's her problem, I guess.

That's all, lol. I'm not arguing with you, just arguing against her and the attitude I perceive her to have. And by her comments, it's a justified perception. I guess only time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

Gotcha. I honestly intended no ill-will towards you, I was just using it an an example. I've had the same thing happen to me on the forum, and where we're reading text with no visual cues as to what the reader intends, we often take offense or interpret something that might not be offensive as offensive. Everyone's guilty of it, even myself.

I edited an earlier post I made, where she has mentioned some of the films that appeal to her or what certain films remind her of in a good way. She's a bit of a mixed bag, as she references Benny and Joon, Grey Gardens, Donkey Skin, Bitter Moon, and she seems dedicated to independent video stores: http://www.hammertonail.com/editoria...-this-weekend/ she's not totally the devil.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

It doesn't read that way to me at all. If anything, it seems like a stab at people who insist you can't have an opinion about a broad topic if you haven't experienced every minute nuance of it. Like saying you can have a conversation about colors or a valid opinion on the matter if you don't care for green.

To each their own.

That's exactly how I read her comment too. She also seems to be a fan of Mike Leigh and Ken Loach, as she says so in the same article. How many people on the street can say that?