The Criterion Collection

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Gotcha. I honestly intended no ill-will towards you, I was just using it an an example. I've had the same thing happen to me on the forum, and where we're reading text with no visual cues as to what the reader intends, we often take offense or interpret something that might not be offensive as offensive. Everyone's guilty of it, even myself.

I edited an earlier post I made, where she has mentioned some of the films that appeal to her or what certain films remind her of in a good way. She's a bit of a mixed bag, as she references Benny and Joon, Grey Gardens, Donkey Skin, Bitter Moon, and she seems dedicated to independent video stores: http://www.hammertonail.com/editoria...-this-weekend/ she's not totally the devil.

That's what I love about especially this thread... the discussions can get pretty intense but they are usually fun and insightful. It's fun arguing opinions and maybe you can change the way someone sees an issue, maybe not. That's how I always did my best learning.

I love Bitter Moon btw.

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

It doesn't read that way to me at all. If anything, it seems like a stab at people who insist you can't have an opinion about a broad topic if you haven't experienced every minute nuance of it. Like saying you can have a conversation about colors or a valid opinion on the matter if you don't care for green.

To each their own.

Perhaps. But she can't have an opinion about a film she's never seen... although she's imparting one. She's judging a genre instead of an individual film, so she can't really say she hates ALL mafia movies because she hasn't seen them all.

I still say don't prejudge a piece of art, ESPECIALLY is that's the art you work in, if you don't want your own art to be prejudged. Kind of like, do unto others... etc. I'm also a firm believe in respecting the milestones and classics in any said art. She may not like it after she's watched it, but she should give it a chance because, like I said, you never know. It's kind of like respecting your elders... i see rude kids nowadays who just don't. Maybe that makes me old fashioned.

Either way, it's an interesting discussion.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by retablo

That's what I love about especially this thread... the discussions can get pretty intense but they are usually fun and insightful. It's fun arguing opinions and maybe you can change the way someone sees an issue, maybe not. That's how I always did my best learning.

I love Bitter Moon btw.

You and Dunham may have something in common after all.

I know the discussions here can be intense, and I enjoy that and have learned quite a bit from them, but some of the comments towards Dunham last weekend kinda crossed the line for me, such as referring to her as a whale, because her character in her film refers to herself as a whale. I was just bothered by that because you're taking a fictional character (no matter how autobiographical she may be) and judging the actress who plays the character on their fictional role. It also doesn't really add much to the discussion of the film. I also have a bit of an issue when people say a female director slept around to get her film made and/or produced, even if it may be a joke, because it's a bit degrading. Racist jokes aren't acceptable in civilised talk, so why are sexist ones? Why don't we say Wes Anderson had sex with someone at Criterion to get all of his films in the collection?

BTW, TCM is doing a James Whale tribute tonight folks.

[BohemianGraham]

Oh my, Dunham's on to us:

Lena Dunham's Twitter

Aware most @criterion enthusiasts think I give handjobs for a sport. Please just know I worship the company & am not flippant about this!

She seems pretty upbeat about all the criticism she gets.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Oh my, Dunham's on to us:

Lena Dunham's Twitter

She seems pretty upbeat about all the criticism she gets.

She stole my word!

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

You and Dunham may have something in common after all.

I know the discussions here can be intense, and I enjoy that and have learned quite a bit from them, but some of the comments towards Dunham last weekend kinda crossed the line for me, such as referring to her as a whale, because her character in her film refers to herself as a whale. I was just bothered by that because you're taking a fictional character (no matter how autobiographical she may be) and judging the actress who plays the character on their fictional role. It also doesn't really add much to the discussion of the film. I also have a bit of an issue when people say a female director slept around to get her film made and/or produced, even if it may be a joke, because it's a bit degrading. Racist jokes aren't acceptable in civilised talk, so why are sexist ones? Why don't we say Wes Anderson had sex with someone at Criterion to get all of his films in the collection?

BTW, TCM is doing a James Whale tribute tonight folks.

Maybe if she didn't judge films based on their appearance, people wouldn't judge her based on hers. lol

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by retablo

Maybe if she didn't judge films based on their appearance, people wouldn't judge her based on hers. lol

Haha, it's still sad that people are judging her film based on HER appearance, rather than the film based on the FILM'S appearance.

Originally Posted by retablo

She stole my word!

She must split her time between us and the Criterion forum, which I just read because those guys seem to be out for blood over on that forum. Blu-ray.com is almost a Disney-ified version of that forum.

[John D.]

Originally Posted by blujazz

Question about the packaging.

Since I order my stuff from Barnes and Noble, the plastic seal is still on. And sometimes when I unwrap it, there's this annoying residue on the spine (i'm guessing that's where the adhesive is put on). Any advice on getting rid of it?

Lighter Fluid

[blujazz]

Originally Posted by John D.

Lighter Fluid

Thanks!

[oildude]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I know the discussions here can be intense, and I enjoy that and have learned quite a bit from them, but some of the comments towards Dunham last weekend kinda crossed the line for me, such as referring to her as a whale, because her character in her film refers to herself as a whale. I was just bothered by that because you're taking a fictional character (no matter how autobiographical she may be) and judging the actress who plays the character on their fictional role. It also doesn't really add much to the discussion of the film. I also have a bit of an issue when people say a female director slept around to get her film made and/or produced, even if it may be a joke, because it's a bit degrading. Racist jokes aren't acceptable in civilised talk, so why are sexist ones? Why don't we say Wes Anderson had sex with someone at Criterion to get all of his films in the collection?
BTW, TCM is doing a James Whale tribute tonight folks.

Thanks. THAT is an image I did not want in my head. On that note, I think I'll go finish watching The Warped World of Koreyoshi Kurahara Eclipse set. Only one film left - Thirst for Love. Watching Ruriko Asaoka should cleanse my brain.

Never saw Ruriko in a film before watching I Hate But Love. Very beautiful and a fun actress to watch, reminds me of a Japanese Audrey Hepburn.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by oildude

Thanks. THAT is an image I did not want in my head. On that note, I think I'll go finish watching The Warped World of Koreyoshi Kurahara Eclipse set. Only one film left - Thirst for Love. Watching Ruriko Asaoka should cleanse my brain.

Never saw Ruriko in a film before watching I Hate But Love. Very beautiful and a fun actress to watch, reminds me of a Japanese Audrey Hepburn.

I'm sorry. Would you have preferred if I said it was another male director?

One last quote from Lena Dunham's twitter, and then I'll shut up about her and go watch Bunny Lake is Missing until the James Whale films come on:

Going to Berlin next week. Carefully modeling my outfits after abused/abusive Fassbinder heroines. A little Sally Bowles too.

That there makes up for The Godfather, doesn't it guys? She knows who Fassbinder is, and has watched his films.

[DLizzle]

Let me try to sort this out. I see this discussion as two main points on which each side thinks the other side is completely insane:

- The tone of Lena Dunham's comments about The Godfather. Some see it as a harsh and snobby judgement of a classic film she hasn't seen; one that demonstrates a bratty, pretentious attitude towards great art that she feels she is above. Others see it as a harmless and self-deprecating comment about why she stubbornly won't watch a classic film because of it's subject matter, and how men look down on her for this - an examination of her imperfections in the same way that she presents her body in her work. Through the course of the discussion, no one has shown signs of even the slightest bit of flexibility in their interpretation of the comment, and I doubt anyone will

- The film education requirements of a serious filmmaker. Some think it absolutely necessary to revere and study classic films to be considered a worthwhile artist (to the point of flippantly (heh) accepting this point as fact when making an argument). The other side doesn't see how an artist can be disregarded based on their study of other art. This is probably a slightly more interesting topic of debate than the first point, but it seems as though each side thinks the other side's opinion on this topic is completely absurd.

My point is that I think this discussion has reached a clear "agree to disagree (and silently judge)" impasse. I'm sure it will continue, but please at least consider the possible directions of the discussion.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

That there makes up for The Godfather, doesn't it guys? She knows who Fassbinder is, and has watched his films.

If she watched the Godfather, then she could say anything she wants about it. It's 3 hours of her life, she can manage.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by DLizzle

Let me try to sort this out. I see this discussion as two main points on which each side thinks the other side is completely insane:

- The tone of Lena Dunham's comments about The Godfather. Some see it as a harsh and snobby judgement of a classic film she hasn't seen; one that demonstrates a bratty, pretentious attitude towards great art that she feels she is above. Others see it as a harmless and self-deprecating comment about why she stubbornly won't watch a classic film because of it's subject matter, and how men look down on her for this - an examination of her imperfections in the same way that she presents her body in her work. Through the course of the discussion, no one has shown signs of even the slightest bit of flexibility in their interpretation of the comment, and I doubt anyone will

- The film education requirements of a serious filmmaker. Some think it absolutely necessary to revere and study classic films to be considered a worthwhile artist (to the point of flippantly (heh) accepting this point as fact when making an argument). The other side doesn't see how an artist can be disregarded based on their study of other art. This is probably a slightly more interesting topic of debate than the first point, but it seems as though each side thinks the other side's opinion on this topic is completely absurd.

My point is that I think this discussion has reached a clear "agree to disagree (and silently judge)" impasse. I'm sure it will continue, but please at least consider the possible directions of the discussion.

I've moved on. Hence me making jokes about her watching Fassbinder instead of Coppola to get her "street cred."

[retablo]

Originally Posted by DLizzle

Let me try to sort this out. I see this discussion as two main points on which each side thinks the other side is completely insane:

- The tone of Lena Dunham's comments about The Godfather. Some see it as a harsh and snobby judgement of a classic film she hasn't seen; one that demonstrates a bratty, pretentious attitude towards great art that she feels she is above. Others see it as a harmless and self-deprecating comment about why she stubbornly won't watch a classic film because of it's subject matter, and how men look down on her for this - an examination of her imperfections in the same way that she presents her body in her work. Through the course of the discussion, no one has shown signs of even the slightest bit of flexibility in their interpretation of the comment, and I doubt anyone will

- The film education requirements of a serious filmmaker. Some think it absolutely necessary to revere and study classic films to be considered a worthwhile artist (to the point of flippantly (heh) accepting this point as fact when making an argument). The other side doesn't see how an artist can be disregarded based on their study of other art. This is probably a slightly more interesting topic of debate than the first point, but it seems as though each side thinks the other side's opinion on this topic is completely absurd.

My point is that I think this discussion has reached a clear "agree to disagree (and silently judge)" impasse. I'm sure it will continue, but please at least consider the possible directions of the discussion.

I think it's more clear than that: a serious artist shouldn't jude ANY art without seeing or sampling it first. Because without knowledge, comments hold no merit. That's the only point I was trying to make, and I don't see how anyone could disagree with that. But maybe some do. But it's impossible to give an opinion on something you don't know about, which is what she seems to be doing.

But whatever, more power to he and her future endeavors.

[DLizzle]

On a more positive note, I just finished Fanny and Alexander, after watching Smiles of a Summer Night a few nights ago. I've now seen all of the Bergman films Criterion has released on blu-ray. More please! They both exceeded my already high expectations, and went far to validate my suspicions that Bergman may become one of, if not my very favourite directors, once I have seen more of his work.

Smiles of a Summer Night was funny and satisfying, and Fanny and Alexander seems like a masterpiece I'll have to watch all 5 hours of many times to sort through all it has going for it.

What are the most likely of his films to be released on Blu in the near future?

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by DLizzle

On a more positive note, I just finished Fanny and Alexander, after watching Smiles of a Summer Night a few nights ago. I've now seen all of the Bergman films Criterion has released on blu-ray. More please! They both exceeded my already high expectations, and went far to validate my suspicions that Bergman may become one of, if not my very favourite directors, once I have seen more of his work.

Smiles of a Summer Night was funny and satisfying, and Fanny and Alexander seems like a masterpiece I'll have to watch all 5 hours of many times to sort through all it has going for it.

What are the most likely of his films to be released on Blu in the near future?

Criterion New Year's card hinted at Summer with Monika, and we're still waiting on Wild Strawberries.

I want to see The Virgin Spring get an update, because I love Max Von Sydow in medieval films, and he was not too bad on the eyes back then either.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by DLizzle

On a more positive note, I just finished Fanny and Alexander, after watching Smiles of a Summer Night a few nights ago. I've now seen all of the Bergman films Criterion has released on blu-ray. More please! They both exceeded my already high expectations, and went far to validate my suspicions that Bergman may become one of, if not my very favourite directors, once I have seen more of his work.

Smiles of a Summer Night was funny and satisfying, and Fanny and Alexander seems like a masterpiece I'll have to watch all 5 hours of many times to sort through all it has going for it.

What are the most likely of his films to be released on Blu in the near future?

He's my favorite, along with Kieslowski. I hope you watched the long version and not the theatrical, but it sounds like you did.

I'm assuming Wild Strawberries will be next on blu, but I'd prefer the faith trilogy (especially Through A Glass Darkly) or Persona.

[DLizzle]

Originally Posted by retablo

I think it's more clear than that: a serious artist shouldn't jude ANY art without seeing or sampling it first. Because without knowledge, comments hold no merit. That's the only point I was trying to make, and I don't see how anyone could disagree with that. But maybe some do. But it's impossible to give an opinion on something you don't know about, which is what she seems to be doing.

But whatever, more power to he and her future endeavors.

My point was that the main point of disagreement there is that you seem to consider her comments a judgement, while others don't. Where's the judgement? She thinks it's a movie about gangsters, probably from hearing or reading a synopsis. She didn't even infer that it was good, bad, overrated, or anything about it all, other than it's perceived topic, one that doesn't interest her.

If one is to withhold all judgement about art until experiencing it, how would one arrive at watching The Godfather in the first place, out of all the films in the world? Everyone chooses which movies to watch based on some preconceived notion of them.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I'm sorry. Would you have preferred if I said it was another male director?

One last quote from Lena Dunham's twitter, and then I'll shut up about her and go watch Bunny Lake is Missing until the James Whale films come on:



That there makes up for The Godfather, doesn't it guys? She knows who Fassbinder is, and has watched his films.

Because I like to:

The sad part about all those quotes you posted from her is that she is a Criterion shill. Her knowledge of film seems to be what Criterion sends her or what she raids in the closet. From some of the quotes I have read, she seems to be uninterested in any film that isn't a name she heard from Criterion, hence the Leigh and Loach references. Frankly, just another short-sighted human being that thinks she knows all. She loves all this attention, especially the negative, it's what feeds her low self-esteem, as witnessed in the movie....By the way BG, I just slammed Criterion's catalog for you out of fairness...

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by DLizzle

My point was that the main point of disagreement there is that you seem to consider her comments a judgement, while others don't. Where's the judgement? She thinks it's a movie about gangsters, probably from hearing or reading a synopsis. She didn't even infer that it was good, bad, overrated, or anything about it all, other than it's perceived topic, one that doesn't interest her.

If one is to withhold all judgement about art until experiencing it, how would one arrive at watching The Godfather in the first place, out of all the films in the world? Everyone chooses which movies to watch based on some preconceived notion of them.

You are saying that her prejudice toward 'gangster' films is OK? Because by definition, she is prejudging the film, or genre, before experiencing it. I think that is a major mistake an artist can make. Sort of ironic, as people are prejudging her due to her figure. Turnabout may be fair play, but who knows....

By the way, oildude, I just finished a revisit of 'Black Sun' the other day from the Kurahara set, just priceless cinema.....