The Criterion Collection

[stobbart]

It seems as if Criterion is now going 1080i for their supplements with Godzilla and A Night To Remember. I mean it is nice to have everything on one disc, but I would rather have a second disc for supplements then having quality suffer

[rezpekt]

Originally Posted by stobbart

It seems as if Criterion is now going 1080i for their supplements with Godzilla and A Night To Remember. I mean it is nice to have everything on one disc, but I would rather have a second disc for supplements then having quality suffer

1080i supplements are usually upscaled, they've done since they began releasing Blu-rays. In my opinion, they should keep them in standard definition and give more space and bitrate to film/true HD supplements.

[stobbart]

Originally Posted by rezpekt

1080i supplements are usually upscaled, they've done since they began releasing Blu-rays.

Oh, I was under the impressing that all their supplements were 1080P and it was something they advertised. I thought the Godzilla release may have had something to do with 1080i working better with the quality of the material like with "The Phantom Carriage" release. But then with everything on A Moment To Remember being 1080i I thought it was a GB limit issue that they were trying to get around.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by stobbart

It seems as if Criterion is now going 1080i for their supplements with Godzilla and A Night To Remember. I mean it is nice to have everything on one disc, but I would rather have a second disc for supplements then having quality suffer

...and no way can even the best work from a 2K scan be considered worthy of 5 stars for PQ. Overall, A Night to Remember has nice enough video given the source, but just compare with Anatomy of a Murder which was harvested at 4K. Now that's high definition black and white.

[billzfan]

I was always curious. Why has Criterion never released any of David Lynch's films? He might be the best American director living today and the Criterion audience would appreciate it.

[Shout92]

Originally Posted by moileduge

So after seeing the June releases and wanting most of them, when do you think Amazon or B&N is doing another sale?

I've been saving for a while just to get me a few Criterions.

B&N sales are in July and November.

[stobbart]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

...and no way can even the best work from a 2K scan be considered worthy of 5 stars for PQ. Overall, A Night to Remember has nice enough video given the source, but just compare with Anatomy of a Murder which was harvested at 4K. Now that's high definition black and white.

Yes that is another thing. Criterion is just going back to old masters they struck for their DVDs when upgrading it seems like. When they should be trying to source new materials and rescanning them at a higher quality. While it would be almost useless to get 8K scans of most of their output, a 4K scan should be the minimum.

While I love their product and their releases (they do look fantastic) it seems that they are cutting corners to put out X number of releases each month and updating their back catalog.

Their DVDs were representative of the technology at the time pushed to the limit. Their blu-rays seem to be "They look great, but they could have been better"

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

...and no way can even the best work from a 2K scan be considered worthy of 5 stars for PQ.

This is a pretty bold statement you have left there. Contrary to what you have written, the best work from a 2K scan is very much worthy of a perfect score. There are countless examples where 2K scans have produced outstanding results.

On the other hand, since you are judging the quality of the presentation based on screencaptures, I would say this: I feel very confident that in a blind test with 10 screencaptures, 5 from 4K sources and 5 from 2K sources, you will not be able to properly group them. It really is fascinating to see how one could immediately conclude that someone else's work is not worthy of...whatever...because something was harvested from 2K, not 4K. Surely these numbers matter.

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Overall, A Night to Remember has nice enough video given the source...

So you already have the disc and have seen how the film looks projected and were able to conclude that it looks nice enough? This is almost as fascinating of a statement as the ones I've seen recently where someone saw a film 20+ years ago, in some theater, and remembers exactly how the film looked, which is why such and such Blu-ray release is terrible. It is amazing how people with such amazing memory can have so much time to post on internet forums when they could be working for, say, the Government. But we do live in an amazing world

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

...but just compare with Anatomy of a Murder which was harvested at 4K. Now that's high definition black and white.

This is an even more amazing theory. They should look identical, correct? After all, the two films were filmed a year apart from each other and happen to be...in black and white.

Originally Posted by stobbart

Yes that is another thing. Criterion is just going back to old masters they struck for their DVDs when upgrading it seems like.

Neither A Night to Remember nor Anatomy of Murder use high-definition transfers that were struck from old masters. And Criterion had nothing to do with the masters. There goes that theory....

Pro-B

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by billzfan

I was always curious. Why has Criterion never released any of David Lynch's films? He might be the best American director living today and the Criterion audience would appreciate it.

Rights, mostly. Also, at one time I believe they had Eraserhead, but Lynch doesn't really adhere to any schedule, so the collaboration didn't really go as planned. In the end, Lynch just released it himself. If David Lynch manages to supervise every release, then I don't really see the need to have him in the Criterion Collection. From releases like Blue Velvet, we know that the end result will look great.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

I'm sure this does sound like "why won't they release what I want" but there are 2 people looking at this situation. 1 that sees Chaplin announced and say "Oh boy! I can't wait to watch this!" and the other "How many times do I have to hear about Chaplin again". One person is new to these films, while the other wants something new. Heck, I like Godard, but I get tired of hearing about his films. I would rather discuss BRAZILIAN MARGINAL CINEMA or something. Some people would rather discuss how cool Drive is. So I understand the 2 sides.


The release that kind of ticks me off is the Gorin films. Gorin has done how many features/interviews for other films with Criterion now? alot. They have had these films for a while as well. Years later, they are dumped on Eclipse (btw, I love the Eclipse releases, but not the line itself. The films, not what are done with them).

I don't think you're whining, I think you make more sense than a lot of the others who whine about releases, because most of what they want is just as "mainstream" in a sense, as some of the titles they complain about. You at least still find good things about Criterion, and aren't being totally dismissive of them, and acting like Criterion is the worst company ever, and they have betrayed you. That's my issue with the constant complaints on this forum, as most people tend to only complain, and never really say anything positive about the films that are out.

It may seem like I could care less about what Criterion releases, but there are a lot of titles I don't like, and have questioned, including Tiny Furniture. However, once people began to get all worked up about that particular film, it made me change my opinion, and think that Criterion is still following their mandate to a certain extent. They are causing controversy with their releases, and they're getting people pissed off about them.

I'm also concerned about the lack of supplements as of late, because that used to be the whole point in buying Criterions, fantastic films with fantastic supplements. It's part of the reason why I've been buying more and more as cheap as possible

[Show spoiler]without scamming stores due to coupon abuse thouhg

I don't begrudge them for releasing what they release, because it makes others happy, and we do get some of the more obscure stuff, i.e. Hollis Frampton, from selling stuff that doesn't seem like it would fit the collection. There's so much stuff out there released by them, as well as other companies, that I honestly can't see why people want to own and love everything they put out. To me, that would be very boring, and it's borderline fanticism.

I think it all just boils down to personal tastes, which causes a lot of conflict within this forum. It's fun most times, but sometimes it just ends up being like a broken record.

I also think that people are expecting too much from Criterion. The company has essentially become rather mainstream, and they're trying to keep up with the new-found demand for their products, and thus are releasing more and more films their traditional fans might not enjoy. While I think they could be doing a better job than what they are at meeting the new demands, I'm not holding them up on some golden pedestal like so many people here tend to do. I've read comments on here that Criterion deserves all the criticism they get, because they made themselves out to be the best company ever, and they're supposed to be perfect. I think that's a bit of a hyperbole, because Criterion isn't God. Nothing is perfect.

[billzfan]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Rights, mostly. Also, at one time I believe they had Eraserhead, but Lynch doesn't really adhere to any schedule, so the collaboration didn't really go as planned. In the end, Lynch just released it himself. If David Lynch manages to supervise every release, then I don't really see the need to have him in the Criterion Collection. From releases like Blue Velvet, we know that the end result will look great.

That's a good point. The problem has been that there's only been international releases of his films. I believe only Dune and Blue Velvet have gottne a US blu-ray release.

[greekak229]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

A Night to Remember Blu-ray Review

I'll definitely pick this up at some point, maybe the next Criterion sale. Not a title I need to run out and order right away.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

This is a pretty bold statement you have left there. Contrary to what you have written, the best work from a 2K scan is very much worthy of a perfect score. There are countless examples where 2K scans have produced outstanding results.

If their numbers are countless, then how about naming a few? Possibly we can compare notes; otherwise, this strikes me wishful thinking and hyperbole.

The best Criterion Blu-ray title I've seen from a 2K scan so far was Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence. But since 4K is so rare within the collection anway, I'm sorry, I don't have much else to offer off the top for comparison, except maybe The Thin Red Line and some of the BBS Box.

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

On the other hand, since you are judging the quality of the presentation based on screencaptures, I would say this: I feel very confident that in a blind test with 10 screencaptures, 5 from 4K sources and 5 from 2K sources, you will not be able to properly group them. It really is fascinating to see how one could immediately conclude that someone else's work is not worthy of...whatever...because something was harvested from 2K, not 4K. Surely these numbers matter.

Granted, screen caps might be unreliable for more nuanced evaluation in the 3 to 4 range, for sure. And when a 4K harvest is treated to shoddy or overprocessed workflow, it might not even stand up well next to a 2K harvest with brilliant interwork. However, when something is proclaimed a flat out 5, you can always see in the caps whether that zenith is warranted, or was merely a 4 or 4.5 with undue fan enthusiasm.

In any case, it's the year 2012; 4K scans should be standard for Blu-rays from any label with a name like Criterion; otherwise, just leave the title on DVD. Criterion was slow to abandon letterboxing for DVDs too...

But again, if you're convinced it's so hard to distinguish 4K from 2K, then just post some caps. Let's make a game of it!

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Neither A Night to Remember nor Anatomy of Murder use high-definition transfers that were struck from old masters. There goes that theory...

I noted only that Anatomy of a Murder was harvested at 4K, and looks it. A Night to Remember was not, and also looks it.

I had no other point to make. I'll certainly buy A Night to Remember because I like the movie, and it does look fine in this edition...just not the pinnacle of perfection trumpeted in that review.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

...and no way can even the best work from a 2K scan be considered worthy of 5 stars for PQ. Overall, A Night to Remember has nice enough video given the source, but just compare with Anatomy of a Murder which was harvested at 4K. Now that's high definition black and white.

Except A Night to Remember looks more natural and filmlike, while Anatomy of a Murder has a sharpened/processed look with some pretty nasty edge enhancement and even the grain isn't as fine despite the 4K. Scanning resolution doesn't say much if the subsequent processing is too heavy-handed. It's also worth noting that A Night to Remember was from the original negative and scanned on an Arriscan, which from what I've read produces better images than the Spirit.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

Except A Night to Remember looks more natural and filmlike, while Anatomy of a Murder has a sharpened/processed look with some pretty nasty edge enhancement and even the grain isn't as fine despite the 4K. Scanning resolution doesn't say much if the subsequent processing is too heavy-handed. It's also worth noting that A Night to Remember was from the original negative and scanned on an Arriscan, which from what I've read produces better images than the Spirit.

I don't expect you to believe a schlub like me Pyoko. Tell it to Robert A. Harris, or Sony's Grover Crisp, who do know what this film actually looks like.

[stobbart]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Neither A Night to Remember nor Anatomy of Murder use high-definition transfers that were struck from old masters. And Criterion had nothing to do with the masters. There goes that theory....

Pro-B

I was more talking about films they released or re-released in the 2 or so years leading up to them releasing films on blu. Such as Seven Samurai and Yi Yi and probably others.

You have a lot more knowledge in the behind the scenes mastering of these films. But for some releases it seems that they used scans that they already had. Because on their FAQ they even state that they have been doing HD masters for years on their titles

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by billzfan

I was always curious. Why has Criterion never released any of David Lynch's films? He might be the best American director living today and the Criterion audience would appreciate it.

is Kenneth Anger.

[billzfan]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

is Kenneth Anger.

He never even directed a feture length film. I completely disagree.

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by billzfan

He never even directed a feture length film. I completely disagree.

what does that have to do with being a filmmaker? Lynch would love to have Anger's filmography. He is pretty much PG Anger anyways.

[bizarre_eye]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

is Kenneth Anger.

It's good to see another fan of Kenneth Anger.