The Criterion Collection

[DetroitSquirreL]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Down by Law Blu-ray REVIEW


.

Great review! It just helped me decide to wait till it was released or pre order...preorder I did so I can see it day1...plus its only $24 USD right now on Amazon!!

[rkish]

Originally Posted by DetroitSquirreL

Great review! It just helped me decide to wait till it was released or pre order...preorder I did so I can see it day1...plus its only $24 USD right now on Amazon!!

Don't forget...this comes out during the B & N sale, if you're near a store, like myself.

[smeesmay]

Ok, let me preface by saying this remark is probably sacrilegious and totally ignorant to many of you... but I would love to know...

I love what Criterion does with releases, the PQ care and quality of ALL the restorations is top notch. Special features are complete and out of this world..some nearly 5 times as long as the actual feature presentation. Where I just can't seem to put total devotion to everything Criterion is the audio.

I know they almost always include the lossless original audio but its usually 1.0 or something of the such. I know most like this as it stays true to the roots of the movie and directors intent, but if Criterion is going to put so much effort into the restoration and charge a hefty fee per blu for it, the least they could do is offer a Remastered, maybe even sometimes new, additional channels to the original audio to really open it up and make full use of many peoples full surround sound. I know they could not get all directors to approve, but many they could and it would offer an entirely new way to experience some of the greatest movies of all time. And the soundtracks would be solely on Criterion releases, making them even more desirable...and to all hardcore original audio guys, this option would be one of several for you to hear. Your version would still be there. This question arises every time I see a perfect audio review of a Criterion on high definition in 1.0 mono.. this is the time of 7.1 or greater speaker configurations and I for one think Criterion needs to get on the ball with the newest high definition ways to experience movies.

Commence bashing me, and yes I know I have but one Criterion in my collection...but I have experienced a couple and have always been haunted by this burning question/wish.

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

Ok, let me preface by saying this remark is probably sacrilegious and totally ignorant to many of you... but I would love to know...

I bet you're one of those people who wanted/wants their whole tv filled too

[Eny-]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

Ok, let me preface by saying this remark is probably sacrilegious and totally ignorant to many of you... but I would love to know...

I love what Criterion does with releases, the PQ care and quality of ALL the restorations is top notch. Special features are complete and out of this world..some nearly 5 times as long as the actual feature presentation. Where I just can't seem to put total devotion to everything Criterion is the audio.

I know they almost always include the lossless original audio but its usually 1.0 or something of the such. I know most like this as it stays true to the roots of the movie and directors intent, but if Criterion is going to put so much effort into the restoration and charge a hefty fee per blu for it, the least they could do is offer a Remastered, maybe even sometimes new, additional channels to the original audio to really open it up and make full use of many peoples full surround sound. I know they could not get all directors to approve, but many they could and it would offer an entirely new way to experience some of the greatest movies of all time. And the soundtracks would be solely on Criterion releases, making them even more desirable...and to all hardcore original audio guys, this option would be one of several for you to hear. Your version would still be there. This question arises every time I see a perfect audio review of a Criterion on high definition in 1.0 mono.. this is the time of 7.1 or greater speaker configurations and I for one think Criterion needs to get on the ball with the newest high definition ways to experience movies.

Commence bashing me, and yes I know I have but one Criterion in my collection...but I have experienced a couple and have always been haunted by this burning question/wish.

Next thing is asking for a colorized version of B&W movies.

After saying this, given the type of the majority of the movies that CC releases it would be a waste to have a 7.1 version only to use 1 or 2 channels. So, why not sticking with the original?

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

Ok, let me preface by saying this remark is probably sacrilegious and totally ignorant to many of you... but I would love to know...

I love what Criterion does with releases, the PQ care and quality of ALL the restorations is top notch. Special features are complete and out of this world..some nearly 5 times as long as the actual feature presentation. Where I just can't seem to put total devotion to everything Criterion is the audio.

I know they almost always include the lossless original audio but its usually 1.0 or something of the such. I know most like this as it stays true to the roots of the movie and directors intent, but if Criterion is going to put so much effort into the restoration and charge a hefty fee per blu for it, the least they could do is offer a Remastered, maybe even sometimes new, additional channels to the original audio to really open it up and make full use of many peoples full surround sound. I know they could not get all directors to approve, but many they could and it would offer an entirely new way to experience some of the greatest movies of all time. And the soundtracks would be solely on Criterion releases, making them even more desirable...and to all hardcore original audio guys, this option would be one of several for you to hear. Your version would still be there. This question arises every time I see a perfect audio review of a Criterion on high definition in 1.0 mono.. this is the time of 7.1 or greater speaker configurations and I for one think Criterion needs to get on the ball with the newest high definition ways to experience movies.

Commence bashing me, and yes I know I have but one Criterion in my collection...but I have experienced a couple and have always been haunted by this burning question/wish.

A lot of people, yourself included it seems, don't seem to hold the audio of a film up to the same standards of the image. People will scream bloody murder at the idea of an aspect ratio alteration, or new digital effects replacing original ones, but will happily listen to a complete bastardization of a mix.

There are plenty of modern films with excellent 5.1-7.1 tracks, and plenty of older films that were exhibited originally with 4 or 6 track stereo mixes, which usually included a surround element, allowing a faithful 5.1 mix.

But to achieve a surround element for a film that never originally had one, a lot of dodgy tinkering has to be done. The worst of which is having to record new sound effects to be able to move them about the sound space. Here's your new "high definition" way to experience JAWS:

Jaws Before-and-After Equal Audio Mono - YouTube

If you honestly think Criterion are going to start doing that to their film releases, you're going to be disappointed. Even if they do offer the mono as an alternate option at all times, they still would see it as an "incorrect" way to view a film, and would be worried about people not educated in such matters listening to the "wrong version". Plenty of people hate the black bars you get when watching a 2.35:1 film on a widescreen set, but there's no way Criterion are going to start offering cropped 1.78:1 versions to appease them.

Saying that, they did include a 5.1 mix of Anatomy of a Murder, along with it's original mono. The film is fairly music heavy and the new mix moved the instruments and such around the speakers (though very few of them made it to the surrounds). Nothing wrong with this generally, but you are aren't going to see it happen in a film like The 400 Blows or Island of Lost Souls.

[smeesmay]

Originally Posted by Freeza

I bet you're one of those people who wanted/wants their whole tv filled too

no thats just fine, but if they can do a new mix for even budget bin blus...why cant the premier distribution company at least try???

[smeesmay]

Originally Posted by Eny-

Next thing is asking for a colorized version of B&W movies.

After saying this, given the type of the majority of the movies that CC releases it would be a waste to have a 7.1 version only to use 1 or 2 channels. So, why not sticking with the original?

Im just saying that a company like Criterion, that can make a masterpiece of PQ out of a decent at best (sometimes) master, they would be the ones to actually do an upmix so to speak of an original soundtrack thoroughly, thoughtfully and correctly. Just would love to see them at least try.

[BohemianGraham]

Do people no realise how bad remixes sound? There are a few which are decent, such as Yellow Submarine, Anatomy of a Murder, and Head, but I'll give a good example of a bad one:

The Monkees TV series box sets put out by Rhino in 2003 came with the original 2.0 stereo audio, plus a "new" 5.1 mix. I have a 7.1 system, and let me tell you, the 5.1 sounds like garbage in comparison to the original 2.0. It sounds very hollow, echoey, as if it was recorded in a pipe or something.

I don't claim to be an audio expert, but to try to create something out of nothing usually ends up sounding fairly poor.

[smeesmay]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Do people no realise how bad remixes sound? There are a few which are decent, such as Yellow Submarine, Anatomy of a Murder, and Head, but I'll give a good example of a bad one:

The Monkees TV series box sets put out by Rhino in 2003 came with the original 2.0 stereo audio, plus a "new" 5.1 mix. I have a 7.1 system, and let me tell you, the 5.1 sounds like garbage in comparison to the original 2.0. It sounds very hollow, echoey, as if it was recorded in a pipe or something.

I don't claim to be an audio expert, but to try to create something out of nothing usually ends up sounding fairly poor.

True, but Im sure if a great one can be done, no one would be better for that task than Criterion.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by madmojo

So, how's this sound for the upcoming sale?
Fish Tank
Letter Never Sent

I didn't care all that much for Fish Tank. It had some decent moments, and I am a sucker for Michael Fassbender, but it's not a film I'd want to watch again. I'm still glad for being introduced to Bobby Womack's California Dreamin'

Letter Never Sent on the other hand I was totally gobsmacked by. Very rarely do you see such absolutely stunning visuals in a film. You will be very pleased with it, I think.

[SlickDamian]

After reading Dr. Svet's review, Down By Law just became a must-own for me. At the top of my list.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

Ok, let me preface by saying this remark is probably sacrilegious and totally ignorant to many of you... but I would love to know...

I love what Criterion does with releases, the PQ care and quality of ALL the restorations is top notch. Special features are complete and out of this world..some nearly 5 times as long as the actual feature presentation. Where I just can't seem to put total devotion to everything Criterion is the audio.

I know they almost always include the lossless original audio but its usually 1.0 or something of the such. I know most like this as it stays true to the roots of the movie and directors intent, but if Criterion is going to put so much effort into the restoration and charge a hefty fee per blu for it, the least they could do is offer a Remastered, maybe even sometimes new, additional channels to the original audio to really open it up and make full use of many peoples full surround sound. I know they could not get all directors to approve, but many they could and it would offer an entirely new way to experience some of the greatest movies of all time. And the soundtracks would be solely on Criterion releases, making them even more desirable...and to all hardcore original audio guys, this option would be one of several for you to hear. Your version would still be there. This question arises every time I see a perfect audio review of a Criterion on high definition in 1.0 mono.. this is the time of 7.1 or greater speaker configurations and I for one think Criterion needs to get on the ball with the newest high definition ways to experience movies.

Commence bashing me, and yes I know I have but one Criterion in my collection...but I have experienced a couple and have always been haunted by this burning question/wish.

IMO, the problem with your question is the bold. The idea of 'home video' is to reproduce the theatrical experience as best as you can. Criterion is definitely on the ball with high definition. The PQ of their releases is considered one of the best and the closest, if not better, to what was viewed in the theater. The audio is, and this is important to remember, as close to the original theatrical released soundtrack as possible. I am not a 'sound' expert, but as far as I have heard through the years, trying to matrix a mono track is generally a bad idea. I know that when you matrix a stereo track it works better, but it depends on the source and original mix. Your question is valid though, as people have become trained by high definition and its inherent benefits. Unfortunately, I believe that most of Criterion's catalog are 'dialogue' driven films which a 'surround' track would make the experience worse.

[KubrickFan]

Criterion is one of the few labels that actually does it right. The big studios should actually just put the original track in lossless sound on every disc, instead of remixing it in 7.1. There are way too many instances of remixes that altered/omitted sounds that were in the original track. And there's just no need to have sounds come out of every speaker all the time.

[P@t_Mtl]

Seven Samurai in glorious 7.1 colorized and in 1.78:1 and 3D is the only way to go in the future my friends

[Show spoiler]

Most of the movies offered by Criterion would not really need a remix in 7.1, the movies are story driven and dialogue driven for the most part and it would really not improve anything or give us anything more.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

I know they almost always include the lossless original audio but its usually 1.0 or something of the such. I know most like this as it stays true to the roots of the movie and directors intent, but if Criterion is going to put so much effort into the restoration and charge a hefty fee per blu for it, the least they could do is offer a Remastered, maybe even sometimes new, additional channels to the original audio to really open it up and make full use of many peoples full surround sound. I know they could not get all directors to approve, but many they could and it would offer an entirely new way to experience some of the greatest movies of all time. And the soundtracks would be solely on Criterion releases, making them even more desirable...and to all hardcore original audio guys, this option would be one of several for you to hear. Your version would still be there. This question arises every time I see a perfect audio review of a Criterion on high definition in 1.0 mono.. this is the time of 7.1 or greater speaker configurations and I for one think Criterion needs to get on the ball with the newest high definition ways to experience movies.

Commence bashing me, and yes I know I have but one Criterion in my collection...but I have experienced a couple and have always been haunted by this burning question/wish.

I won't bash you, because I understand the issue about mono soundtrack, but will just answer by asking you to listen to many 5.1 Warner remixes and tell me if these are real useful 5.1, 'cause they're absolutely not.

Here, Criterion has to stick to the most original version they can for a given title, because that's what they are entitled too.
From time to time, with technical agreement, they will adress a 5.1 remix (like on Gimme Shelter or Anatomy of a Murder), but most of the time, it is not Criterion's mission to offer such tweaks on what they release. As you say :

"it stays true to the roots of the movie and directors intent"

Which is Criterion's mission.

[smeesmay]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Seven Samurai in glorious 7.1 colorized and in 1.78:1 and 3D is the only way to go in the future my friends

[Show spoiler]

Most of the movies offered by Criterion would not really need a remix in 7.1, the movies are story driven and dialogue driven for the most part and it would really not improve anything or give us anything more.

I am thinking even something subtle would be a vast improvement. For instance a scene in a forest...add a couple faint birds chirping or some leaves rustling. Nothing major that totally changes or takes away from a scene, but if I pay $30+ for one freakin movie I want to be immersed and become part of the action, drama etc. Just an idea.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

I am thinking even something subtle would be a vast improvement. For instance a scene in a forest...add a couple faint birds chirping or some leaves rustling. Nothing major that totally changes or takes away from a scene, but if I pay $30+ for one freakin movie I want to be immersed and become part of the action, drama etc. Just an idea.

Then buy a different movie.

No offense.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

I am thinking even something subtle would be a vast improvement. For instance a scene in a forest...add a couple faint birds chirping or some leaves rustling. Nothing major that totally changes or takes away from a scene, but if I pay $30+ for one freakin movie I want to be immersed and become part of the action, drama etc. Just an idea.

Yeah, screw whatever the director wants, chirping birds are really going to immerse me in that movie.

I always though Stanley Kubrick was wrong in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Every sci-fi movie has sounds in space, so that's what I want.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

I am thinking even something subtle would be a vast improvement. For instance a scene in a forest...add a couple faint birds chirping or some leaves rustling. Nothing major that totally changes or takes away from a scene, but if I pay $30+ for one freakin movie I want to be immersed and become part of the action, drama etc. Just an idea.

I know I was only kidding, you don't or may not me well enough, I am weird

Mostly the way I see this sound issue is I feel the 5.1, 6.1 and the 7.1 have more value to action movies (modern action movies) because of the way they are done. The way directors (not all of them of course but most) have setup their movies, the action is coming from all around. As such it does make some sense for them to have the sound be all around in order to flood the audience into what is going on.

I see no benefits for older movies and even more so for a lot of what is in the collection. They are movies from a different time, frame in a different style and also in many cases with not much camera movements. That's how they made them, it was more about the story, the actors then the action and what is around you. Going multi-channel I think would become more of a distraction than being useful. In my opinion!