The Criterion Collection

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Kevin Holly

Does anyone know the difference between the 219-minute Heaven's Gate cut which has been shown in the past and the 216-minute cut the Criterion Collection has out now?

Thanks

From first viewing, this is what I noticed:

1. Not a cut but a change. At the end of the prologue, the final shot originally started close on the girl on the window then drifted down away from her before it cuts to the conductor walking through the train 20 years later. For this new version, the shot of the girl has been reversed so it starts down away from her then drifts forward ending on a close-up before the cut to 20 years later.

2. The intermission has been removed (the biggest edit time wise).

3. Two shots of John Hurt have been removed from the scene where Chris Walken's character confronts Sam Waterston's character at the mercenaries' camp. Originally, after Waterston slaps John Hurt, there was a close-up of Hurt recovering down on the floor, then a later close-up where he says, "Son of a ***** was always a favorite expression in this country." Both of those shots of Hurt as well as his line of dialog have been removed from this scene.

There may be other changes, but those are the ones that I noticed off hand.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by DarkRyder

To make things a little more absurd, his original version was about 5.5 hours long. Don't bother waiting for that version, as UA has destroyed the leftover footage.

They supposedly did destroy the leftover footage, but then the question is, where did the outtakes that are shown during the Cimino/Carelli interview come from?

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Kevin Holly

Does anyone know the difference between the 219-minute Heaven's Gate cut which has been shown in the past and the 216-minute cut the Criterion Collection has out now?

Thanks

3 minutes.

[Darkcritic]

Originally Posted by DarkRyder

Someone on Criticker has a sick sense of humor. I apologize for the small image.

I remember how I got all excited with the "Cows" hint just by the thought that it might had been Satantango. It Ended up being the Lean/Coward set, not bad but the Tarr would have been way more exciting for me.

[Variable_Star]

Originally Posted by retablo

3 minutes.

Someone had to say it.

Thinking about starting Heaven's Gate tonight...looking forward to tackling this great beast!

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I love how people flock there to use coupon after coupon, praising the great clerks that allow them to do it, and how they have no hassle etc..... then when a Criterion Sale isn't going on, and someone posts a random deal for them (like 30% off one item and B2G1 etc) people immediately sharpen their pitchforks to point out the "Crazy" high prices. (Although I did see the "Forever Marilyn" set that Costco is currently blowing out for $99.95 there today)

Saw a bit of this, and it looked interesting. No idea about the rights/potential release etc. though.

Bingo. I enjoy shopping from B&N, although I can't get to the physical store all that often, once a year personally, and once a year by proxy. They're not just there for BDs, their primary focus is books and the Nook devices (and yes I'm still coveting the new Nook with Glowlight, as my trip ended up being cancelled ) Their sales are much better than some of the other equivalent retailers, but apprently my opinion doesn't count because I live in "Rapeada," as one poster put it. Canadian prices might be high for some stuff, but at the same time, our retail slaves get paid slightly higher wages and have access to basic health care. But I'm veering into political territory with that remark, so I'll stop.

Originally Posted by mallomar

BohemianGraham, if you can carve out the time, definitely watch all the supplements. Among the handful of movies for which I've dutifully watched all offerings, this set was the most immersive by far. It was really like a weekend course in colonialism past and present. I wish there was more historical context like this for other spine numbers. I remember finishing For All Mankind and being hungry for a basic overview of the Apollo program. In fact, the supplements I'm most likely to watch are those overviewing the director's career, and those overviewing the historical context or de facto subject matter. All my unanswered questions usually fall into those two realms. Not that Wikipedia isn't useful, but it's no match for a miniature documentary with an expert(s) in the field.

On a completely different note: Do you happen to have a list of all the Criterion spines that were adapted from novels? I just watched Rosemary's Baby and thought it would be fun to read the Ira Levin novel. Then I thought, Why stop there? I remember your discussing this subject, but the only book that comes to mind is Zazie...

Off the top of my head at the moment, this is what I can remember, and I'm including DVD only and OOP ones, as well as stuff adapted from plays (as in plays you're forced to read via the education system), and short stories:

Rosemary's Baby (Boys from Brazil and Stepford Wives were more enjoyable)
Zazie dans le metro (which you need to read)
The Leopard (Visconti did a fantastic adaptation)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (goes without saying that this should be read)
Night of the Hunter (it was good, but the publisher did a terrible job at formatting it, it was an awkward size, the font choice was terrible, and there were no indentations to signify paragraphs. It was hard to read in that regard)
Howards End (I'm an EM Forster junkie, and again, fantastic adaptation)
Anatomy of a Murder (technically it's a book, and no I haven't read it)
The River
Black Narcissus
The 39 Steps (vastly different from the novel)
Beauty and the Beast (fairy tales count)
The Jungle Book (Sabu!)
The Four Feathers
A Night to Remember
The Silence of the Lambs
Salo (it's a lose adaptation)
The Trilogy of Life (all 3 films are adaptations of classic literature, again, from what I heard, rather loose ones)
High and Low (Been meaning to read King's Ransom)
Great Expectations (I like Dickens, most people seem to hate reading him and prefer the films)
Oliver Twist
Diabolique
The Wages of Fear
The Lady Vanishes
The Last Picture Show
The Killers
The Samurai Trilogy
World on a Wire
Henry V
Picnic at Hanging Rock
Lord of the Flies
The Most Dangerous Game (short stories count too!)
Black Orpheus (adaptation of Greek myth)
Yojimbo (loose adaptation of arguably two Dashiell Hammett novels)
The Unbearable Lightness of Being
The Orphic Trilogy (same as Black Orpheus, different interpretation obviously)
The Last Temptation of Christ
Hamlet
Pygmalion
Withnail and I (unpublished novels count!)
Diary of a Chambermaid
Belle du jour
Rebecca (really loved the novel)
The Importance of Being Earnest
Solaris
Hopscotch
Richard III
Naked Lunch
The Rules of the Game
The Devil and Daniel Webster (The Devil and Peter Tork is also a fun adaptation of this particular short story/interpretation of Faust)
Throne of Blood (MacBeth)
Straw Dogs
My Life as a Dog
Leon Morin
The Tin Drum
Maurice (in the Merchant Ivory set, as are the next two)
The Bostonians
The Europeans
Purple Noon
Harold and Maude (the novel was was released at the same time)
Vanya on 42nd Street (it's an adaptation of sorts of the Chekhov play)
Island of Lost Souls
Kiss me Deadly
The Sweet Smell of Success
Senso
Kes
The Thin Red Line
The Paths of Glory
Drive, He Said
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Wise Blood (Flannery O'Connor is awesome)
White Dog
The Spy Who came in from the Cold
The Ice Storm
Under the Volcano
House of Games (short story)
Les Enfants Terribles
Army of Shadows
The Burmese Harp
Kind Hearts and Coronets
The Bad Sleep Well (arguably a loose adaptation of Hamlet)
Ran (King Lear)
The Flowers of St. Francis
Jules and Jim
Young Törless
My Own Private Idaho (loose adapatation of Henry IV parts 1 and 2, and Henry V)


I may be missing a bunch, and stretching on several, but some of the other posters can feel free to add and/or subtract from the list.

[IronWaffle]

Looks like you have more on the top of your head than I have in m'whole noggin.

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

Do you have Pale Flower? I think you would like it if you haven't seen it.

I did pick up Pale Flower the other day. I have a few of my blind buys left to watch, but I'll wait until after finals.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Off the top of my head at the moment, this is what I can remember, and I'm including DVD only and OOP ones, as well as stuff adapted from plays (as in plays you're forced to read via the education system), and short stories:

[Show spoiler]Rosemary's Baby (Boys from Brazil and Stepford Wives were more enjoyable)
Zazie dans le metro (which you need to read)
The Leopard (Visconti did a fantastic adaptation)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (goes without saying that this should be read)
Night of the Hunter (it was good, but the publisher did a terrible job at formatting it, it was an awkward size, the font choice was terrible, and there were no indentations to signify paragraphs. It was hard to read in that regard)
Howards End (I'm an EM Forster junkie, and again, fantastic adaptation)
Anatomy of a Murder (technically it's a book, and no I haven't read it)
The River
Black Narcissus
The 39 Steps (vastly different from the novel)
Beauty and the Beast (fairy tales count)
The Jungle Book (Sabu!)
The Four Feathers
A Night to Remember
The Silence of the Lambs
Salo (it's a lose adaptation)
The Trilogy of Life (all 3 films are adaptations of classic literature, again, from what I heard, rather loose ones)
High and Low (Been meaning to read King's Ransom)
Great Expectations (I like Dickens, most people seem to hate reading him and prefer the films)
Oliver Twist
Diabolique
The Wages of Fear
The Lady Vanishes
The Last Picture Show
The Killers
The Samurai Trilogy
World on a Wire
Henry V
Picnic at Hanging Rock
Lord of the Flies
The Most Dangerous Game (short stories count too!)
Black Orpheus (adaptation of Greek myth)
Yojimbo (loose adaptation of arguably two Dashiell Hammett novels)
The Unbearable Lightness of Being
The Orphic Trilogy (same as Black Orpheus, different interpretation obviously)
The Last Temptation of Christ
Hamlet
Pygmalion
Withnail and I (unpublished novels count!)
Diary of a Chambermaid
Belle du jour
Rebecca (really loved the novel)
The Importance of Being Earnest
Solaris
Hopscotch
Richard III
Naked Lunch
The Rules of the Game
The Devil and Daniel Webster (The Devil and Peter Tork is also a fun adaptation of this particular short story/interpretation of Faust)
Throne of Blood (MacBeth)
Straw Dogs
My Life as a Dog
Leon Morin
The Tin Drum
Maurice (in the Merchant Ivory set, as are the next two)
The Bostonians
The Europeans
Purple Noon
Harold and Maude (the novel was was released at the same time)
Vanya on 42nd Street (it's an adaptation of sorts of the Chekhov play)
Island of Lost Souls
Kiss me Deadly
The Sweet Smell of Success
Senso
Kes
The Thin Red Line
The Paths of Glory
Drive, He Said
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Wise Blood (Flannery O'Connor is awesome)
White Dog
The Spy Who came in from the Cold
The Ice Storm
Under the Volcano
House of Games (short story)
Les Enfants Terribles
Army of Shadows
The Burmese Harp
Kind Hearts and Coronets
The Bad Sleep Well (arguably a loose adaptation of Hamlet)
Ran (King Lear)
The Flowers of St. Francis
Jules and Jim
Young Törless
My Own Private Idaho (loose adapatation of Henry IV parts 1 and 2, and Henry V)

I may be missing a bunch, and stretching on several, but some of the other posters can feel free to add and/or subtract from the list.

That was just from the top of your head? I have a hard time recalling what I had for breakfast yesterday (and I eat the samething almost every morning )

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

That was just from the top of your head? I have a hard time recalling what I had for breakfast yesterday (and I eat the samething almost every morning )

You had half a grapefruit, buttered toast and a hard-boiled egg. Good luck finding the hidden camera

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Off the top of my head at the moment, this is what I can remember, and I'm including DVD only and OOP ones, as well as stuff adapted from plays (as in plays you're forced to read via the education system), and short stories:

[Show spoiler]Rosemary's Baby (Boys from Brazil and Stepford Wives were more enjoyable)
Zazie dans le metro (which you need to read)
The Leopard (Visconti did a fantastic adaptation)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (goes without saying that this should be read)
Night of the Hunter (it was good, but the publisher did a terrible job at formatting it, it was an awkward size, the font choice was terrible, and there were no indentations to signify paragraphs. It was hard to read in that regard)
Howards End (I'm an EM Forster junkie, and again, fantastic adaptation)
Anatomy of a Murder (technically it's a book, and no I haven't read it)
The River
Black Narcissus
The 39 Steps (vastly different from the novel)
Beauty and the Beast (fairy tales count)
The Jungle Book (Sabu!)
The Four Feathers
A Night to Remember
The Silence of the Lambs
Salo (it's a lose adaptation)
The Trilogy of Life (all 3 films are adaptations of classic literature, again, from what I heard, rather loose ones)
High and Low (Been meaning to read King's Ransom)
Great Expectations (I like Dickens, most people seem to hate reading him and prefer the films)
Oliver Twist
Diabolique
The Wages of Fear
The Lady Vanishes
The Last Picture Show
The Killers
The Samurai Trilogy
World on a Wire
Henry V
Picnic at Hanging Rock
Lord of the Flies
The Most Dangerous Game (short stories count too!)
Black Orpheus (adaptation of Greek myth)
Yojimbo (loose adaptation of arguably two Dashiell Hammett novels)
The Unbearable Lightness of Being
The Orphic Trilogy (same as Black Orpheus, different interpretation obviously)
The Last Temptation of Christ
Hamlet
Pygmalion
Withnail and I (unpublished novels count!)
Diary of a Chambermaid
Belle du jour
Rebecca (really loved the novel)
The Importance of Being Earnest
Solaris
Hopscotch
Richard III
Naked Lunch
The Rules of the Game
The Devil and Daniel Webster (The Devil and Peter Tork is also a fun adaptation of this particular short story/interpretation of Faust)
Throne of Blood (MacBeth)
Straw Dogs
My Life as a Dog
Leon Morin
The Tin Drum
Maurice (in the Merchant Ivory set, as are the next two)
The Bostonians
The Europeans
Purple Noon
Harold and Maude (the novel was was released at the same time)
Vanya on 42nd Street (it's an adaptation of sorts of the Chekhov play)
Island of Lost Souls
Kiss me Deadly
The Sweet Smell of Success
Senso
Kes
The Thin Red Line
The Paths of Glory
Drive, He Said
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Wise Blood (Flannery O'Connor is awesome)
White Dog
The Spy Who came in from the Cold
The Ice Storm
Under the Volcano
House of Games (short story)
Les Enfants Terribles
Army of Shadows
The Burmese Harp
Kind Hearts and Coronets
The Bad Sleep Well (arguably a loose adaptation of Hamlet)
Ran (King Lear)
The Flowers of St. Francis
Jules and Jim
Young Törless
My Own Private Idaho (loose adapatation of Henry IV parts 1 and 2, and Henry V)

I may be missing a bunch, and stretching on several, but some of the other posters can feel free to add and/or subtract from the list.

Berlin Alexanderplatz...............off the top of my head.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

That was just from the top of your head? I have a hard time recalling what I had for breakfast yesterday (and I eat the samething almost every morning )

I'm a librarian, I'm supposed to remember stuff like that, and I cheated on a couple titles, as I said, some were stretching the adaptating thing.

A lot of them were just sitting in front of me, as me Mam is lending me her Nook, as she bought herself a tablet for Christmas, and thus has 4 eReading devices at her disposal now (Sony Touch 2009, Nook Color, Nook with Glowlight, and now the Acer Iconia A200). I'm still buying my own once I get to NH in the spring, but for now, I get to treat hers as if it were my own, hence me pruging it of her books and loading it up with mine, and many of which were Criterion adaptations.

[Monty70]

Is anyone else surprised at the perfect score for video presentation on the Heaven's Gate blu-ray review? I backed up my blu-ray player to make sure of what I saw several times. The section of the film that this anomaly takes place in is right after the the roller rink skating party. I am seeing some vertical lines of pixels when James drags John out of the roller rink and pulls him into the wagon. (starting at 1:28.01 and ending at 1:28.17) I am also seeing a flashing bluish pixelization along the bottom half of the screen at 1:27.43

Anyone else see this? (the BD looks wonderful, the lush photography is very well represented, I was just surprised that this was not mentioned)

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

The Red Shoes. Kurosawa's The Idiot. Walter Tevis' The Man Who Fell To Earth! (C'mon, the DVD came packaged with the book for chrissakes!)

Which reminds me: Short Cuts, the original DVD edition of which also included a book comprised of the Raymond Carver short stories Altman used as the basis for the film. (Fans of the film may also want to check out Jindabyne, a very different Australian adaptation of one of these stories.)

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

You had half a grapefruit, buttered toast and a hard-boiled egg. Good luck finding the hidden camera

Darn it! Where did you hide that thing? I just ripped apart half of my dinning room walls

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Darn it! Where did you hide that thing? I just ripped apart half of my dinning room walls

Don't be so modest. This is from my latest surveillance:

Final Scene of the Conversation - YouTube

By the way, didn't know you played sax.

[rkish]

It's amazing what an additional 30% off will do to preconceived notions of what you feel "worthy" to be added to your particular collection. I am a fan of Kurosawa...but have a preference to his "non-samurai" films, though I wisely bought Seven Samurai, as it's an important film, that is very well made and entertaining to me. I wound up buying the Yojimbo/Sanjuro box, as I have really enjoyed Mifune in most every film I've seen him in.

OK...that's three Kurosawas during the same sale...I think I'm done!

[jonmayo15]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Anatomy of a Murder (technically it's a book, and no I haven't read it)

I have an old paperback copy from the late 50s. It's a great read, especially if you read it before you've seen the movie, like I did. The back cover has a promo that says "See Otto Preminger's Big Movie" and has a cast list on it.

[mallomar]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Off the top of my head at the moment, this is what I can remember, and I'm including DVD only and OOP ones, as well as stuff adapted from plays (as in plays you're forced to read via the education system), and short stories:

[Show spoiler]Rosemary's Baby (Boys from Brazil and Stepford Wives were more enjoyable)
Zazie dans le metro (which you need to read)
The Leopard (Visconti did a fantastic adaptation)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (goes without saying that this should be read)
Night of the Hunter (it was good, but the publisher did a terrible job at formatting it, it was an awkward size, the font choice was terrible, and there were no indentations to signify paragraphs. It was hard to read in that regard)
Howards End (I'm an EM Forster junkie, and again, fantastic adaptation)
Anatomy of a Murder (technically it's a book, and no I haven't read it)
The River
Black Narcissus
The 39 Steps (vastly different from the novel)
Beauty and the Beast (fairy tales count)
The Jungle Book (Sabu!)
The Four Feathers
A Night to Remember
The Silence of the Lambs
Salo (it's a lose adaptation)
The Trilogy of Life (all 3 films are adaptations of classic literature, again, from what I heard, rather loose ones)
High and Low (Been meaning to read King's Ransom)
Great Expectations (I like Dickens, most people seem to hate reading him and prefer the films)
Oliver Twist
Diabolique
The Wages of Fear
The Lady Vanishes
The Last Picture Show
The Killers
The Samurai Trilogy
World on a Wire
Henry V
Picnic at Hanging Rock
Lord of the Flies
The Most Dangerous Game (short stories count too!)
Black Orpheus (adaptation of Greek myth)
Yojimbo (loose adaptation of arguably two Dashiell Hammett novels)
The Unbearable Lightness of Being
The Orphic Trilogy (same as Black Orpheus, different interpretation obviously)
The Last Temptation of Christ
Hamlet
Pygmalion
Withnail and I (unpublished novels count!)
Diary of a Chambermaid
Belle du jour
Rebecca (really loved the novel)
The Importance of Being Earnest
Solaris
Hopscotch
Richard III
Naked Lunch
The Rules of the Game
The Devil and Daniel Webster (The Devil and Peter Tork is also a fun adaptation of this particular short story/interpretation of Faust)
Throne of Blood (MacBeth)
Straw Dogs
My Life as a Dog
Leon Morin
The Tin Drum
Maurice (in the Merchant Ivory set, as are the next two)
The Bostonians
The Europeans
Purple Noon
Harold and Maude (the novel was was released at the same time)
Vanya on 42nd Street (it's an adaptation of sorts of the Chekhov play)
Island of Lost Souls
Kiss me Deadly
The Sweet Smell of Success
Senso
Kes
The Thin Red Line
The Paths of Glory
Drive, He Said
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Wise Blood (Flannery O'Connor is awesome)
White Dog
The Spy Who came in from the Cold
The Ice Storm
Under the Volcano
House of Games (short story)
Les Enfants Terribles
Army of Shadows
The Burmese Harp
Kind Hearts and Coronets
The Bad Sleep Well (arguably a loose adaptation of Hamlet)
Ran (King Lear)
The Flowers of St. Francis
Jules and Jim
Young Törless
My Own Private Idaho (loose adapatation of Henry IV parts 1 and 2, and Henry V)

I may be missing a bunch, and stretching on several, but some of the other posters can feel free to add and/or subtract from the list.

Damn, you sure came through with that. Thank you many times over. I feel like you could sell that list as a Kindle book. I've printed it out and will probably start with Zazie, even though I know that was a tough novel to translate and is considered to have suffered a bit in the process. Much obliged.

[MitchA17]

I think it would be cool if Holy Motors got a Criterion release someday.

I haven't seen it yet, but I desperately want to, and it seems like a film that would fit into the Collection.