The Criterion Collection

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

Do people really believe everything will be available on BD to the extent that DVD has saturated?

I really don't, Joe. And I definitely don't think that DVD has saturated the market.

But I also don't buy this theory -- which if you look around at a few select forums is coming from former folks that vocally supported HDDVD -- that everything was meant to appear on Blu-ray.

Not everything that was released on VHS ended up on DVD. Surely you do not consider DVD a failure, do you? I've essentially discarded all of my VHS titles, with the exception of a few that I really can't throw away because I really like the covers.

There is something else that is often lost in conversations where people compare DVD vs Blu-ray. Which is that an enormous amount of junk was released on DVD. There are virtually entire libraries of companies (such as Facets Video) that put all sorts of junk on DVD. The quality of these releases was 90% of the time VHS material. Bad VHS material. Do you remember Fox Lorber?

Additionally, there are tons of instructional videos, special programing and all sorts of other C-grade material that made it to DVD. This material is considered part of DVD's content base. But it will never transition to Blu-ray because it does not have to.

The reality is this: We share a very different economic climate where we are seeing an enormous amount of catalog titles on Blu-ray. I buy and watch a lot of films from virtually everywhere, and this was the first year that I truly could not keep up 100% with everything that I wanted to see.

And I still buy DVDs (I am very much against downloads and will never pay a single $ to "own" something as a digital file). I am an "old-fashioned" film collector and want everything on my shelf.

What I am trying to convey to you, Joe, is that if you discard the overwhelming majority of C-grade content and C/D-grade quality releases, DVD really isn't that far ahead of Blu-ray.

I am not naive enough to believe that everything that ended up on DVD will get released on Blu-ray, but, again, there is A LOT that was released on VHS that did not get released on DVD, which is now being released on Blu-ray . So, it is another transition, different adjustments in terms of content.

All in all, I have a pretty large library of films, and I have been collecting for years, long before DVD arrived on the market, and I definitely have not lost my appetite to buy films.

I opt for Blu-ray and look for Blu-ray releases all over the world to get the films I want (such as Marketa Lazarova, which is available on a gorgeous English-friendly Blu-ray in the Czech Republic). But I also pick up plenty of DVD releases of films that I feel will likely not make it to Blu-ray because for a number of different reasons proper elements do not exist for them (I especially like older Italian films and tend to buy a lot of older classic films, B films/Euro Trash/Exploitation/Erotica/Experimental films/Policiticos, etc).

For me personally this is a great time to pick up films I wanted to see years ago, because if you are willing to mix DVD and Blu-ray practically everything is available somewhere. Maybe not always English-friendly, but this isn't a terrible problem.

All in all, I am very happy these days as there is so much more than what was available back in the VHS days

Pro-B

[oildude]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

[Show spoiler]I really don't, Joe. And I definitely don't think that DVD has saturated the market.

But I also don't buy this theory -- which if you look around at a few select forums is coming from former folks that vocally supported HDDVD -- that everything was meant to appear on Blu-ray.

Not everything that was released on VHS ended up on DVD. Surely you do not consider DVD a failure, do you? I've essentially discarded all of my VHS titles, with the exception of a few that I really can't throw away because I really like the covers.

There is something else that is often lost in conversations where people compare DVD vs Blu-ray. Which is that an enormous amount of junk was released on DVD. There are virtually entire libraries of companies (such as Facets Video) that put all sorts of junk on DVD. The quality of these releases was 90% of the time VHS material. Bad VHS material. Do you remember Fox Lorber?

Additionally, there are tons of instructional videos, special programing and all sorts of other C-grade material that made it to DVD. This material is considered part of DVD's content base. But it will never transition to Blu-ray because it does not have to.

The reality is this: We share a very different economic climate where we are seeing an enormous amount of catalog titles on Blu-ray. I buy and watch a lot of films from virtually everywhere, and this was the first year that I truly could not keep up 100% with everything that I wanted to see.

And I still buy DVDs (I am very much against downloads and will never pay a single $ to "own" something as a digital file). I am an "old-fashioned" film collector and want everything on my shelf.

What I am trying to convey to you, Joe, is that if you discard the overwhelming majority of C-grade content and C/D-grade quality releases, DVD really isn't that far ahead of Blu-ray.

I am not naive enough to believe that everything that ended up on DVD will get released on Blu-ray, but, again, there is A LOT that was released on VHS that did not get released on DVD, which is now being released on Blu-ray . So, it is another transition, different adjustments in terms of content.

All in all, I have a pretty large library of films, and I have been collecting for years, long before DVD arrived on the market, and I definitely have not lost my appetite to buy films.

I opt for Blu-ray and look for Blu-ray releases all over the world to get the films I want (such as Marketa Lazarova, which is available on a gorgeous English-friendly Blu-ray in the Czech republic). But I also pick up plenty of DVD releases of films that I feel will likely not make it to Blu-ray because for a number of different reasons proper elements do not exist for them (I especially like older Italian films and tend to buy a lot of older classic films, B films/Euro Trash/Exploitation/Erotica/Experimental films/Policiticos, etc).

For me personally this is a great time to pick up films I wanted to see years ago, because if you are willing to mix DVD and Blu-ray practically everything is available somewhere. Maybe not always English-friendly, but this isn't a terrible problem.

All in all, I am very happy these days as there is so much more than what was available back in the VHS days

Pro-B

Thanks for a very good post, Pro-B. Your comments about films on VHS that never transitioned to DVD includes my most wanted film on blu-ray, Philip Borsos's The Grey Fox. I have no idea why such a gem of a film never made it to DVD, when it seemed you couldn't walk into a rental store back in the 1990s without seeing the VHS sitting on a shelf. It was a Canadian awards winner, and a career highlight peformance from the wonderful Richard Farnsworth.

Maybe there is hope it will one day find its way to blu-ray. I am not sure who holds the rights. I think it is Zoetrope, but if that means Lionsgate has it, we may be in for a long wait.

[pro-bassoonist]

Interesting. I don't think I have seen this film, Oildude. Have you done any research to see if it is available on DVD somewhere outside of the U.S./Canada?

[BluPix]

What a pleasant surprise to receive both...


Following by Christopher Nolan

and


The Qatsi Trilogy by Godfrey Reggio

...(ordered way back during the Barnes & Noble 50% off sale) on Monday, a day earlier than their scheduled release date.

I'm especially eager to pop in Koyaanisqatsi.

On a related note, I've had the soon-to-debut-on-blu Samsara on preorder for some time now and plan to buy Chronos around the time of its release, so I can add them next to Baraka, which is already in my collection, and complete Ron Fricke's similarly (yet different) wordless documentary trilogy about our world. Fricke was the cowriter, cinematographer and editor on the Qatsi series and went on to direct the more recent trilogy.

Watching them is certainly a unique experience. First time viewers are in for a real treat.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Interesting. I don't think I have seen this film, Oildude. Have you done any research to see if it is available on DVD somewhere outside of the U.S./Canada?

Yes, I have looked into it. No DVD anywhere. However, it appears at some point it had a limited laserdisc release, and there are some DVD-R versions floating around for sale that were copied from this. I first discovered the movie browsing a small out-of-the-way rental store in Odessa, Texas, in 1992 while I was working in the oilfields over summer break from college. It was one of the best finds I ever made, and after that I noticed it in just about every video store I visited. It was the first film I actually bought on VHS, but sadly I no longer have my copy. I never dreamed it would not come out on DVD.

If you are not familiar with the film, The Grey Fox is a western, about an old gentleman-bandit stagecoach robber named Bill Miner (Richard Farnsworth), who is released after many years in prison at the turn of the 20th Century into a modern world he no longer recognizes. Stagecoaches are long gone, but after a period of trying to adjust to his new life, he decides to re-invent himself in his old age as a train robber north of the border in British Columbia.

The film is often ranked among the best westerns ever made, and one of the top Canadian films of all time. It triumphs on many levels - acting, screenplay, a beautiful haunting score by The Chieftains and Canadian composer Michael Conway Baker, and incredible cinematography. The grandeur of the Pacific Northwest and the majestic steam trains are as much stars in the film as the actors.

I have only been able to find two clips on the internet. One is a nice little preview taken from VHS, set only to music from the film. The other clip is a scene in a bar not long after Miner is released from prison.

Here they are:

The Grey Fox Trailer VHS Rip - YouTube

The Grey Fox - YouTube

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by oildude

Thanks for a very good post, Pro-B. Your comments about films on VHS that never transitioned to DVD includes my most wanted film on blu-ray, Philip Borsos's The Grey Fox. I have no idea why such a gem of a film never made it to DVD, when it seemed you couldn't walk into a rental store back in the 1990s without seeing the VHS sitting on a shelf. It was a Canadian awards winner, and a career highlight peformance from the wonderful Richard Farnsworth.

The Grey Fox was indeed very well-received oildude, although it never broke out as wide as expected in the crucial American market. Nevertheless, Farnsworth tied with James Mason for Best Actor of '82 in the London Film Critics Circle awards, also won Taormina, and was even nominated for the Golden Globe that year. Afterwards, The Grey Fox went straight to TV and eventually video. Like you, I remember seeing the tape on almost every rental rack...at least for awhile...but then the film just vanished. No DVD, at least not in North America. Perhaps you'll find one from Italy, Brazil, Spain, Portugal, or Germany, where the film did run and was apparently well received, but nada from R1.

Originally Posted by oildude

Maybe there is hope it will one day find its way to blu-ray. I am not sure who holds the rights. I think it is Zoetrope, but if that means Lionsgate has it, we may be in for a long wait.

According to the IMDb The Grey Fox seems to have a complicated bunch of partners and participants, so who knows what kind of legal limbo it's now trapped in...which is the likeliest reason why we haven't seen it since the old rewind days.

In Criterion's continuing exploration of world cinema, I've often decried their thin treatment of Canadian film. I mean, still no Villeneuve...of all the Québécois filmmakers, he should be a no-brainer! Or Lauzon, or Forcier, or Brault, or Gagnon, or Héroux etc.. Ditto from the other solitude for Norman McLaren and his amazing body of NFB shorts. Meanwhile, still languishing in total limbo out there in a class by itself is Boros' magnificent The Grey Fox. Truly a lost treasure just waiting to be rediscovered by a new generation. Even as highly as I regard Cronenberg's work, I would gladly forgo another upgrade to see Criterion champion the restoration and reappreciation of Boros' lost classic, plus a handlful of other world class achievements from our cinematic heritage.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by sc1957

Try the Cleveland Institute of Art Cinematheque.

Cleveland Institute of Art
11141 East Boulevard
Cleveland, OH 44106

That's the one. The 15th is the last screening date of the year. They'll be on hiatus until early next year.

[Antonmassacre1]

Originally Posted by jcs913

I think you are missing the fact that you are probably not a fan or really interested in the film/filmmaker after all. Stating that someone is a 'favorite', but not wanting to experience what that person has done as frequently as you can, goes against being a fan, no?

I couldn't agree with this point more. I remember watching a scrambled film on TMN when I was a kid when we didn't subscribe to the service. I think the disconnect here is that the other poster is clearly not as passionate about film as you are.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

The Grey Fox was indeed very well-received oildude, although it never broke out as wide as expected in the crucial American market. Nevertheless, Farnsworth tied with James Mason for Best Actor of '82 in the London Film Critics Circle awards, also won Taormina, and was even nominated for the Golden Globe that year. Afterwards, The Grey Fox went straight to TV and eventually video. Like you, I remember seeing the tape on almost every rental rack...at least for awhile...but then the film just vanished. No DVD, at least not in North America. Perhaps you'll find one from Italy, Brazil, Spain, Portugal, or Germany, where the film did run and was apparently well received, but nada from R1.



According to the IMDb The Grey Fox seems to have a complicated bunch of partners and participants, so who knows what kind of legal limbo it's now trapped in...which is the likeliest reason why we haven't seen it since the old rewind days.

In Criterion's continuing exploration of world cinema, I've often decried their thin treatment of Canadian film. I mean, still no Villeneuve...of all the Québécois filmmakers, he should be a no-brainer! Or Lauzon, or Forcier, or Brault, or Gagnon, or Héroux etc.. Ditto from the other solitude for Norman McLaren and his amazing body of NFB shorts. Meanwhile, still languishing in total limbo out there in a class by itself is Boros' magnificent The Grey Fox. Truly a lost treasure just waiting to be rediscovered by a new generation. Even as highly as I regard Cronenberg's work, I would gladly forgo another upgrade to see Criterion champion the restoration and reappreciation of Boros' lost classic, plus a handlful of other world class achievements from our cinematic heritage.

I learned about this film in this thread earlier this year and it has become my second most wanted title (sandwiched between Kieslowski's Dekalog and an Ikiru upgrade). I even mentioned it in some back and forth emails with Criterion.

[Page14]

Originally Posted by oildude

<snip>
I first discovered the movie browsing a small out-of-the-way rental store in Odessa, Texas, in 1992 while I was working in the oilfields over summer break from college.
<snip>

... and thus the name oildude? (thinking to myself)

If you are not familiar with the film, The Grey Fox is a western, about an old gentleman-bandit stagecoach robber named Bill Miner (Richard Farnsworth), who is released after many years in prison at the turn of the 20th Century into a modern world he no longer recognizes. Stagecoaches are long gone, but after a period of trying to adjust to his new life, he decides to re-invent himself in his old age as a train robber north of the border in British Columbia.

<snip>

I have only been able to find two clips on the internet. One is a nice little preview taken from VHS, set only to music from the film. The other clip is a scene in a bar not long after Miner is released from prison.

Here they are:

[Show spoiler]The Grey Fox Trailer VHS Rip - YouTube

The Grey Fox - YouTube

Thanks for sharing the clips. No wonder you're searching for it ... looks good!

[BohemianGraham]

You guys are aware that Bill Miner was a real person right? Didn't see mention of it in anyone's posts.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

You guys are aware that Bill Miner was a real person right? Didn't see mention of it in anyone's posts.

A new wrinkle... I didn't know that!

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

A new wrinkle... I didn't know that!

Yeah, I read about him in this book I borrowed from my dad back in junior high:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBoV...G_enCA514CA514

And by borrowed I mean I took it and never gave it back to him. I also took his copies of Bandits and Privateers by the same authors, and both Bluenose Ghost and Bluenose Magic by folklorist Helen Creighton.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

I learned about this film in this thread earlier this year and it has become my second most wanted title (sandwiched between Kieslowski's Dekalog and an Ikiru upgrade). I even mentioned it in some back and forth emails with Criterion.

Good on you IronWaffle! Which reminds me, I'm overdue to resubmit that same wish list suggestion to Criterion.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Yeah, I read about him in this book I borrowed from my dad back in junior high:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aBoV...G_enCA514CA514

And by borrowed I mean I took it and never gave it back to him. I also took his copies of Bandits and Privateers by the same authors, and both Bluenose Ghost and Bluenose Magic by folklorist Helen Creighton.

I wasn't aware of that until the reviews for The Grey Fox started popping up BohemianGraham. Which made the film doubly intriguing because to me this was a 'lost' piece of Canuck 'folklore'...I mean, growing up, I heard about Billy Bishop and the like, but zero, zilch, zip about Bill Miner. Just a terrific tale, and they did a great job with it on the way to the screen.

[Darkcritic]

Surprised no one has posted MoC announcements yet (As I think this forum is more about general cinephile interest than just Criterion stuff) but here they are:

- Le Beau Serge
- Les Cousins
- La Notte
- The Murderer Lives at 21
- A Sun-Tribe Myth from the Bakumatsu Era ()
- The Complete (Existing) Films of Sadao Yamanaka (DVD-Only) ()

These are beyond amazing. Eureka has beaten every expectation I could have had an hour ago. They have beaten my expectations for 2013 and counting...

[greekak229]

Snagged Letter Never Sent while it was still $15. Never seen it but I've always wanted to.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

I wasn't aware of that until the reviews for The Grey Fox started popping up BohemianGraham. Which made the film doubly intriguing because to me this was a 'lost' piece of Canuck 'folklore'...I mean, growing up, I heard about Billy Bishop and the like, but zero, zilch, zip about Bill Miner. Just a terrific tale, and they did a great job with it on the way to the screen.

History nerd here. I read about all the cool stuff they won't teach us in school. I highly recommend getting your hands on all 4 books I mentioned in my previous post. We have so much fascinating folklore and history that people don't know about.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Darkcritic

Surprised no one has posted MoC announcements yet (As I think this forum is more about general cinephile interest than just Criterion stuff) but here they are:

- Le Beau Serge
- Les Cousins
- La Notte
- The Murderer Lives at 21
- A Sun-Tribe Myth from the Bakumatsu Era ()
- The Complete (Existing) Films of Sadao Yamanaka (DVD-Only) ()

These are beyond amazing. Eureka has beaten every expectation I could have had an hour ago. They have beaten my expectations for 2013 and counting...

Didn't criterion release the Chabrols in September last year?

[rkish]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Joe, I agree with your mini rant 100% and the bold line really should say it all. It's nice to have this technology, no doubt about it, but to actually limit yourself to a viewing because a film is not available on blu-ray is beyond silly and naive. There are countless times over the years on this forum/thread I have read members saying they will not watch it or buy the dvd until it comes out on blu. Many are slaves or simply obsessed to the technology, and that's too bad. Next will be people asking if the movie is going to come out on 4K, so they will wait...
Folks, if your interested in a film/director, buy or rent it, regardless of what format its on. The experience should be what the writer/director intended, not if the audio is in Master Audio.. Frankly, for the last time too, as I have seen this asked 50+ times; NO, Berlin Alexanderplatz is not coming out on blu-ray anytime soon, so buy the dvd set. Another must have, and possibly my favorite release ever from Criterion, Roberto Rossellini’s War Trilogy is a must have and its on dvd too.... Sorry, those are my recommendations and my mini rant..

I might just get the Rossellini Trilogy during the next sale...yet another positive feedback about it.

Streaming my first Ozus on NetFlix (back when they had a relationship with Criterion) was the main force that got me hooked on him and placed him on my list of top favorite directors. If I hadn't watched those films at that time, I might never have gotten into the world of Ozu.

Hulu has been spoiling me...I just watched another Suzuki film last night (Youth of the Beast) which I enjoyed...gotta love that Joe Shishido! I've also had the chance to discover another Japanese director whose films I've really enjoyed do far...Kinoshita. I'm only a few weeks into a trial, but have watched close to 40 films so far on Hulu (ALL Criterion films).

To quote MLK...judge the films on the content of their character and not on their "color" (look)...