The Criterion Collection

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

Not really. I just think of it as a surreal, nightmarish expression on the nature of memory. Like, the last film project I worked on I had a character that felt emotional pain, and I expressed it through various physical pains that didn't necessarily make sense in terms of a coherent narrative, but it wasn't a dream... it just served as that kind of 'twisted representation of reality' I was talking about earlier. That to me (maybe it's just me) is much more interesting than just taking something as being a dream (which is pretty simple to do).

I truly do respect your opinion and I couldn't agree more. When you see a movie and you get to the end, you're like "oh, okay - it was just a dream". However, when you have a twisted sense of reality, there is a lot more room for interpretations.

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by soarinsteven

More people should definitely check out Ghost World. Such a great film, and features one of Steve Buscemi's best performances. Tho it will make you say "whatever happened to Thora Birch?" So wonderful in the film, and had this and American Beauty as a one-two punch, and then sort of just disappeared. Kind of a shame. Her costar Scarlett Johansson, however, has fared a tad better.

Zwigoff's Ghost World would be an excellent criterion release. Terry Zwigoff's great documentary Crumb was released in 2010. What was excellent about the documentary is getting to know Robert Crumb's family. He also made another great movie based on Daniel Clowes' work Art School Confidential.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

Zwigoff's Ghost World would be an excellent criterion release. Terry Zwigoff's great documentary Crumb was released in 2010. What was excellent about the documentary is getting to know Robert Crumb's family. He also made another great movie based on Daniel Clowes' work Art School Confidential.

Another Zwigoff film, Louie Bluie, is also in the collection (DVD only). Time to add a third.

[jrsl76]

Ghost World is one of those long rumored titles for Criterion.

Honestly, I was mostly disappointed with Art School Confidential. The shots at the teacher's and students pretension as to what was art were pretty funny though.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

Not really. I just think of it as a surreal, nightmarish expression on the nature of memory. Like, the last film project I worked on I had a character that felt emotional pain, and I expressed it through various physical pains that didn't necessarily make sense in terms of a coherent narrative, but it wasn't a dream... it just served as that kind of 'twisted representation of reality' I was talking about earlier. That to me (maybe it's just me) is much more interesting than just taking something as being a dream (which is pretty simple to do). Know what I mean?

I'm right there with you. I love it when a film has the courage to dig further into character by means not related to the plot. It could be through contrast via the cinematography or editing, color usage, visual metaphor or even just unexplained plot detours/convolutions. That metatextual type of stuff is what makes me want to revisit films.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by jrsl76

Ghost World is one of those long rumored titles for Criterion.

Honestly, I was mostly disappointed with Art School Confidential. The shots at the teacher's and students pretension as to what was art were pretty funny though.

Speaking which, the classroom/teacher scenes in Ghost World were fascinating. I love how the teacher deals with the varying types of students and their "art"

[broganreynik]

I just finished watching "Wild Strawberries", and I've come to a stunning realization. I may not be able to call myself much of a film fan. That's due to the fact, not only is Bergman not my cup of tea, but I've already decided the same for Godard and Fellini. What the heck is wrong with me?

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by broganreynik

I just finished watching "Wild Strawberries", and I've come to a stunning realization. I may not be able to call myself much of a film fan. That's due to the fact, not only is Bergman not my cup of tea, but I've already decided the same for Godard and Fellini. What the heck is wrong with me?

So so good. The first step is to admit you have a problem...

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by broganreynik

I just finished watching "Wild Strawberries", and I've come to a stunning realization. I may not be able to call myself much of a film fan. That's due to the fact, not only is Bergman not my cup of tea, but I've already decided the same for Godard and Fellini. What the heck is wrong with me?

Nothing. As someone who also doesn't care for Godard or Fellini but who loves Bergman and, say, Ozu, my tastes may be narrower than many of ye olde cinéastes in here, but it isn't a competition. I'd continue to keep watching (maybe through Hulu, library or other less costly means than buying) and find what works for you. My guess is that in time you may revisit some of what you don't like now and be surprised how much they resonate (particularly Strawberries, which I find gets better the older and more decrepit I get).

[KrugerIndustrial]

Originally Posted by iScottie

I just watched 3 Women.

It's probably the least talked about Criterion film in the entire collection, but it's easily one of the most engrossing films from the entire line-up. I really wish that it would get more praise because Sissy Spacek and Shelley Duvall gave outstanding performances.

I honestly don't know what to make of the film, but there are times (like this), where it doesn't matter. From the beginning to the end I found it very mesmerizing - from the score, to the directing, etc.

[Show spoiler]Was the entire thing one big dream? There were a lot of elements to the story that made it feel like a dream to me - especially with Pinky's transformation.

I also cannot help but feel like the images that were drawn all over the place were hinting at some things in the film. The image of the pregnant woman kept drawing me to Willie's character (because she was also pregnant). I also noticed there were a couple other women in the drawings, as well as a man. I read a little bit on IMDB about how some interpret the drawings to represent each of the central characters - Millie, Pinky, Willie, and Edgar. These women all had some connection to Edgar, so I feel that's how they were all connected throughout.

The film was also made during the 1970s and I can't help but feel that some elements from the feminism movement were embodied in the film. Regardless, the fact that Robert Altman created this film from a dream he had is mind-blowing.

Edit: These Criterion films certainly have a way with the viewers. Every film that I've seen thus far has made me think in some way or the other. I need to take a break and watch something aimless and pointless lol.

That's what I love about Criterion as well. I may not love every film in the collection, but at least they make me want to discuss them more in-depth.

I believe many see this film as a dream, but I personally share quite a different opinion. I started writing up my thoughts right after I first saw the film, but noticed a customer review on Amazon that said it all as if it came from my mind, word by word:

[Show spoiler]Many people have talked about the 'personality swap' that takes place between Pinky and Millie. That never rang true to me. They certainly don't swap personalities, although Pinky exhibits a new personality after she jumps into the pool.

This film is simply about what a mother experiences as her daughter grows into a woman. And so many details and moments in the film say volumes about the painful realizations and feelings that many mothers go through, feelings that have never been dramatized as creatively as Altman has done here. For this reason alone, this film is a gift.

Millie is introduced as a bit directionless, always trying to fit in, but never garnering the attention, respect or love she longs for. He coworkers ignore her rants, her neighbors dismiss her, and her former roommate blows her off. But along comes Pinky, strangely childlike considering her apparent age. She is simply the daughter that enters this lonely woman's life. Not literally, but none-the-less, the relationship proceeds this way. Millie is suddenly the center of her new daughter's universe. We see Millie blush at the attention and adoration she has never received. Like any mother, Millie is constantly guiding and teaching Pinky the proper protocol for every situation - from what to wear, daily routine, entertaining guests--and Pinky absorbs it like a sponge. For many of us who love the film, there has always been something very relatable about the way they connect, even if it's hard to put your finger on.

But the dynamics shift when Pinky goes through a symbolic puberty (jumping into the pool). Not coincidentally, this shift is set off by Millie's betrayal of the 3rd woman (Willie, symbolically the grandmother in some respects). After coming out of a coma, Pinky is suddenly a sexual being. Watching how Millie reacts to the new Pinky is quite illuminating, considering that most parents experience this surreal process during their life. The mother has to watch her daughter blossom and have it rubbed in her face that she is past her own sexual prime (this is dramatized by the way neighbor Tom gives Pinky the attention Millie never was able to get). The Mother has to see her own bad habits and traits reflected back via her daughter's behavior (Pinky's new smoking habit and garish use of makeup). And most painfully, the mother falls of her perch as center of her daughter's universe. For those of us who appreciate the film, this is the real heart of the watching Shelley Duvall and Sissy Spacek go through the surreal turns of this story. It is something absolutely universal. Something our parents silently went through as we became new creatures in our blossoming adolescence.

By not presenting Millie and Pinky as literal mother and child, Altman may alienate some less-discerning viewers. But what he achieves is worth it: He presents how surreal and alienating these parts of the parenting process are. It's a mysterious shift in balance of power, in focus of affection, in bond, and it ultimately leads to a disturbing realization... something that can't be expressed in a self-help book or a parenting manual, but it's hauntingly expressed in the still-birth sequence at the end.

The strange coda to the film, which shows the 3 women working at Dodge City with all male interference cast aside, has also baffled viewers. But I would argue that Altman smartly used this ending to provide a key to understanding the film. In this final scene, the women are blatantly portrayed as a family: Willie is cast as the grandmother, Millie as the mother, and Pinky as the daughter. It feels very different in tone than the rest of the movie: more theatrical and symbolic. This coda kept encouraging me to revisit the film and puzzle through its mysteries. Many reviews on this site insist that there is no method to Altman's madness. I would argue that it's an example of his genius. He may not have even defined them exactly as mother/daughter in his mind, but he was certainly interested in portraying truth, and that essential truth has made this a beloved film, even for those who prefer not to dissect it.

[Hawkguy]

Originally Posted by broganreynik

I just finished watching "Wild Strawberries", and I've come to a stunning realization. I may not be able to call myself much of a film fan. That's due to the fact, not only is Bergman not my cup of tea, but I've already decided the same for Godard and Fellini. What the heck is wrong with me?

Ehh, I'm not a big fan of them either..I appreciate their films but don't consider them favorites, I don't think it's a reflection of being a film fan

[oildude]

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

There's plenty of other excellent Criterion blu-rays that rarely get talked about, this is certainly one of them.

While I agree that 3 Women rarely gets talked about, my vote for least talked about Criterion films (blu-ray) would go to one of these:

The Last Emperor
Broadcast News

The two Samuel Fuller films would also be up there too, followed by the two Chabrol films, Les Cousins and Le Beau Serge, and My Life as a Dog. All of these are very good to great films. I really like the Fuller films and think they don't get enough attention.

I remember the 1987 Oscars and how The Last Emperor and Broadcast News went up against each other for best picture. There was a lot written and talked about which one would win. Bertolucci's magnificent film won, but I find both to be outstanding, certainly deserving of more discussion and as recommendations when anyone asks "what should I watch/buy next".

Even the Monterey Pop set gets talked about more than all these - and having just watched Jimi Plays Monterey, I really want to talk about how blown away I was watching Hendrix perform on such a beautiful transfer with superb sound.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by oildude

While I agree that 3 Women rarely gets talked about, my vote for least talked about Criterion films (blu-ray) would go to one of these:

The Last Emperor
Broadcast News

The two Samuel Fuller films would also be up there too, followed by the two Chabrol films, Les Cousins and Le Beau Serge, and My Life as a Dog.

All of these are very good to great films. I really like the Fuller films and think they don't get enough attention.

I remember the 1987 Oscars and how The Last Emperor and Broadcast News went up against each other for best picture. There was a lot written and talked about which one would win. Bertolucci's magnificent film won, but I find both to be outstanding, certainly deserving of more discussion and as recommendation when anyone asks "what should I watch/buy next".

Even the Monterrey Pop set gets talked about more than all these - and having just watched Jimi Plays Monterrey, I really want to talk about how blown away I was watching Hendrix perform on such a beautiful transfer with superb sound.

All good nods. I especially like the Fullers, specifically Shock Corridor which is a total masterpiece that intelligently and entertainingly addresses the issue of institutionalization of all forms: the military, racism, mental hospitals. I find the hospital a very neat metaphor for America at the time. It's better than any given dozen issue movies, it's got a vitality that nearly 50 years hasnt diminished I'm so mad that I didn't pick up the eClipse set for $14 last year

[broganreynik]

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

Ehh, I'm not a big fan of them either..I appreciate their films but don't consider them favorites, I don't think it's a reflection of being a film fan

I think it just shows how finicky I am as a film viewer. Although, most people would say someone who owns over 600 films isn't finicky haha. I'm the same way with music though. It's just something that has to hit me just right. Something that's greater than the sum of its parts.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by KrugerIndustrial

That's what I love about Criterion as well. I may not love every film in the collection, but at least they make me want to discuss them more in-depth.

I believe many see this film as a dream, but I personally share quite a different opinion. I started writing up my thoughts right after I first saw the film, but noticed a customer review on Amazon that said it all as if it came from my mind, word by word:

[Show spoiler]Many people have talked about the 'personality swap' that takes place between Pinky and Millie. That never rang true to me. They certainly don't swap personalities, although Pinky exhibits a new personality after she jumps into the pool.

This film is simply about what a mother experiences as her daughter grows into a woman. And so many details and moments in the film say volumes about the painful realizations and feelings that many mothers go through, feelings that have never been dramatized as creatively as Altman has done here. For this reason alone, this film is a gift.

Millie is introduced as a bit directionless, always trying to fit in, but never garnering the attention, respect or love she longs for. He coworkers ignore her rants, her neighbors dismiss her, and her former roommate blows her off. But along comes Pinky, strangely childlike considering her apparent age. She is simply the daughter that enters this lonely woman's life. Not literally, but none-the-less, the relationship proceeds this way. Millie is suddenly the center of her new daughter's universe. We see Millie blush at the attention and adoration she has never received. Like any mother, Millie is constantly guiding and teaching Pinky the proper protocol for every situation - from what to wear, daily routine, entertaining guests--and Pinky absorbs it like a sponge. For many of us who love the film, there has always been something very relatable about the way they connect, even if it's hard to put your finger on.

But the dynamics shift when Pinky goes through a symbolic puberty (jumping into the pool). Not coincidentally, this shift is set off by Millie's betrayal of the 3rd woman (Willie, symbolically the grandmother in some respects). After coming out of a coma, Pinky is suddenly a sexual being. Watching how Millie reacts to the new Pinky is quite illuminating, considering that most parents experience this surreal process during their life. The mother has to watch her daughter blossom and have it rubbed in her face that she is past her own sexual prime (this is dramatized by the way neighbor Tom gives Pinky the attention Millie never was able to get). The Mother has to see her own bad habits and traits reflected back via her daughter's behavior (Pinky's new smoking habit and garish use of makeup). And most painfully, the mother falls of her perch as center of her daughter's universe. For those of us who appreciate the film, this is the real heart of the watching Shelley Duvall and Sissy Spacek go through the surreal turns of this story. It is something absolutely universal. Something our parents silently went through as we became new creatures in our blossoming adolescence.

By not presenting Millie and Pinky as literal mother and child, Altman may alienate some less-discerning viewers. But what he achieves is worth it: He presents how surreal and alienating these parts of the parenting process are. It's a mysterious shift in balance of power, in focus of affection, in bond, and it ultimately leads to a disturbing realization... something that can't be expressed in a self-help book or a parenting manual, but it's hauntingly expressed in the still-birth sequence at the end.

The strange coda to the film, which shows the 3 women working at Dodge City with all male interference cast aside, has also baffled viewers. But I would argue that Altman smartly used this ending to provide a key to understanding the film. In this final scene, the women are blatantly portrayed as a family: Willie is cast as the grandmother, Millie as the mother, and Pinky as the daughter. It feels very different in tone than the rest of the movie: more theatrical and symbolic. This coda kept encouraging me to revisit the film and puzzle through its mysteries. Many reviews on this site insist that there is no method to Altman's madness. I would argue that it's an example of his genius. He may not have even defined them exactly as mother/daughter in his mind, but he was certainly interested in portraying truth, and that essential truth has made this a beloved film, even for those who prefer not to dissect it.

Kruger - that is a fantastic interpretation!

The only reason that I really thought it was a dream

[Show spoiler]was because of the ending.

However, you expanded on that idea and more, and I understand it a bit better.

Major kudos!

Originally Posted by oildude

While I agree that 3 Women rarely gets talked about, my vote for least talked about Criterion films (blu-ray) would go to one of these:

The Last Emperor
Broadcast News

The two Samuel Fuller films would also be up there too, followed by the two Chabrol films, Les Cousins and Le Beau Serge, and My Life as a Dog. All of these are very good to great films. I really like the Fuller films and think they don't get enough attention.

I remember the 1987 Oscars and how The Last Emperor and Broadcast News went up against each other for best picture. There was a lot written and talked about which one would win. Bertolucci's magnificent film won, but I find both to be outstanding, certainly deserving of more discussion and as recommendations when anyone asks "what should I watch/buy next".

Even the Monterey Pop set gets talked about more than all these - and having just watched Jimi Plays Monterey, I really want to talk about how blown away I was watching Hendrix perform on such a beautiful transfer with superb sound.

I personally feel that Alambrista is probably the least talked about lol

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Kruger - that is a fantastic interpretation!

The only reason that I really thought it was a dream

[Show spoiler]was because of the ending.

However, you expanded on that idea and more, and I understand it a bit better.

Major kudos!



I personally feel that Alambrista is probably the least talked about lol

I'd add Vanya on 42nd Street to that club. One of my favorites.

[Hawkguy]

Originally Posted by iScottie

I truly do respect your opinion and I couldn't agree more. When you see a movie and you get to the end, you're like "oh, okay - it was just a dream". However, when you have a twisted sense of reality, there is a lot more room for interpretations.

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I'm right there with you. I love it when a film has the courage to dig further into character by means not related to the plot. It could be through contrast via the cinematography or editing, color usage, visual metaphor or even just unexplained plot detours/convolutions. That metatextual type of stuff is what makes me want to revisit films.

Ahh, you guys see what I mean.

I also love revisiting the films that use methods like that to stand out---love it when they don't attempt to be grounded in reality and instead show what they're trying to say, no matter how exaggerated it may seem.

[jrsl76]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

I'd add Vanya on 42nd Street to that club. One of my favorites.

Funny enough, I just popped this into the player this morning. I was very tired so I only watched the beginning, but I'll be watching the rest this evening. I've had it since last year, but am just getting around to checking it out.

[ShellOilJunior]

Muriel is much more tougher watch than Marienbad, imo. Although, it may be because I've only seen Muriel 1x.

[jrsl76]

Originally Posted by oildude

While I agree that 3 Women rarely gets talked about, my vote for least talked about Criterion films (blu-ray) would go to one of these:

The Last Emperor
Broadcast News

The two Samuel Fuller films would also be up there too, followed by the two Chabrol films, Les Cousins and Le Beau Serge, and My Life as a Dog. All of these are very good to great films. I really like the Fuller films and think they don't get enough attention.

I remember the 1987 Oscars and how The Last Emperor and Broadcast News went up against each other for best picture. There was a lot written and talked about which one would win. Bertolucci's magnificent film won, but I find both to be outstanding, certainly deserving of more discussion and as recommendations when anyone asks "what should I watch/buy next".

Even the Monterey Pop set gets talked about more than all these - and having just watched Jimi Plays Monterey, I really want to talk about how blown away I was watching Hendrix perform on such a beautiful transfer with superb sound.

I remember all the bile regarding Broadcast News' inclusion in the collection, but I've long loved the film and was happy to see it's release. I still need to watch my copy of Last Emperor but that one is such a great movie, I just wish that Criterion would go back and release the 4 disc version to Blu-ray. It's annoying that they left all of that stuff behind.

Sam Fuller is one of my favorite directors and those 2 blu-rays are fantastic.