The Criterion Collection

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

I know! I had to re-watch that scene a couple times before I continued on with the rest of the film, the first time I saw it.

Speaking of great title sequences, I saw the opening to Inherit the Wind like ten times before actually seeing the film.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by octagon

I was fairly indifferent (if not fairly cold) to a lot of my favorites at first. Sometimes even after mulitple viewings.

Weird or not, it definitely happens.

Agreed.

Many of my favorite films, artists, albums and some books I disliked at first. I'd also add that expectations (high or low) are often the enemy of appreciation.

Some things you grow into. Some things you grow out of.
Some things always fit, but that's no reason to wear them.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by octagon

I have a very hard time with commentaries. No matter how interesting the track I invariably want the people to shut up so I can just watch the damn movie again.

I agree. I wish I was more tech savvy so I could figure out a way to load the audio rips on my iPhone YouTube has several Fincher commentaries but not much else.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I agree. I wish I was more tech savvy so I could figure out a way to load the audio rips on my iPhone YouTube has several Fincher commentaries but not much else.

I've thought that exact thing many times. I would love to be able to listen to commentary tracks on the train.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

Agreed.

Many of my favorite films, artists, albums and some books I disliked at first. I'd also add that expectations (high or low) are often the enemy of appreciation.

Some things you grow into. Some things you grow out of.
Some things always fit, but that's no reason to wear them.

I agree, as long as there's some interesting ideas, ill gladly revisit it.

I was about to revisit Strange Days earlier today, and it really saddens me that there's no blu ray release (regionA). I think it would make a great addition to the collection.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by octagon

I've thought that exact thing many times. I would love to be able to listen to commentary tracks on the train.

Somebody help us!!!

[jayj15]

Originally Posted by iScottie

I decided to do a breakdown of the films that I've seen thus far based on what I liked and didn't like. Note: All of these correspond to the Blu-rays in The Criterion Collection.

So you're buying movies that you don't like? or haven't seen? That's a big list of blind buys. Not all of the Criterion Collection is worth owning. I do not recommend blind buying Criterions, at 40 bucks a disc, I have to know if it's a favorite.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I agree, as long as there's some interesting ideas, ill gladly revisit it.

I'm not a fan of didactic storytelling (especially when I already agree with the message) but when you say "interesting ideas" that may be a good place for me to interject what I believe is more important to me than the story. One can argue that ideas are the story the filmmakers seek to convey and the plot is a means of conveyance.

For me, themes and subtext -- when executed to my taste, for lack of a better word -- are the story to which I return. What the characters actually go through is simply meeting or undermining the demands of narrative structure. And yet questionable framing, lighting, sound design, scoring, direction and editing can all undermine the film just as poor word choice, sentence structure/variation, description and narrative control can destroy a promising book. Or to a lesser degree a script.

What is also more important than "story" (again, for me) is consistency of character. If their choices, actions and inactions make sense -- even in cases where they behave in unexpected ways that have an internal logic, perhaps due to circumstance -- then they drive the plot. When characters are driven by plot I'm pretty bored, no matter the brilliance of any production elements. Same with books.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by sc1957

I think that once you've decided that a particular film doesn't interest you, there's no reason to revisit it just in case "you might like it better the next time." If you don't like a film, you don't like it.

If I did that, then I'd be missing out NOW on films I truly love, but didn't when I was 18 or even 28. People grow, tastes change, and your taste in art changes. Just because something appealed to me when I was 15 doesn't mean it will still hold up when I'm 40... does that make it a good movie, then? And vice versa.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by jayj15

So you're buying movies that you don't like? or haven't seen? That's a big list of blind buys. Not all of the Criterion Collection is worth owning. I do not recommend blind buying Criterions, at 40 bucks a disc, I have to know if it's a favorite.

Bam you said it...no wait, I want CC to get iSxotties money, keep on keeping on Scott

[octagon]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

IWhat is also more important than "story" (again, for me) is consistency of character. If their choices, actions and inactions make sense -- even in cases where they behave in unexpected ways that have an internal logic, perhaps due to circumstance -- then they drive the plot. When characters are driven by plot I'm pretty bored, no matter the brilliance of any production elements. Same with books.

I used to very heavily fixate on plot. Even relatively modest plot holes or inconsistencies could bump a movie down several notches. And don't get me started on something like luring Cary Grant out into the middle of nowhere so you could try to whack him from a freaking cropdusting plane.

I'm very glad to have gotten over that. I can still appreciate a good plot driven film but they're no longer the only real game in town. In fact, they're not even the biggest game anymore.

[Hawkguy]

Originally Posted by octagon

And don't get me started on something like luring Cary Grant out into the middle of nowhere so you could try to whack him from a freaking cropdusting plane.

Why does that happen?

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

I'm not a fan of didactic storytelling (especially when I already agree with the message) but when you say "interesting ideas" that may be a good place for me to interject what I believe is more important to me than the story. One can argue that ideas are the story the filmmakers seek to convey and the plot is a means of conveyance.

For me, themes and subtext -- when executed to my taste, for lack of a better word -- are the story to which I return. What the characters actually go through is simply meeting or undermining the demands of narrative structure. And yet questionable framing, lighting, sound design, scoring, direction and editing can all undermine the film just as poor word choice, sentence structure/variation, description and narrative control can destroy a promising book. Or to a lesser degree a script.

What is also more important than "story" (again, for me) is consistency of character. If their choices, actions and inactions make sense -- even in cases where they behave in unexpected ways that have an internal logic, perhaps due to circumstance -- then they drive the plot. When characters are driven by plot I'm pretty bored, no matter the brilliance of any production elements. Same with books.

You said it. That consistency is what I gravitate to on subsequent viewings. Many times I find that films disregard their own internal logic. I really took to 127 Hours back in 2010, but after revisiting it las year Danny Boyles style really robs the film of its power. Too frequently he likes to wow us with his visuals as he opens the space, but what the film really needed was more minimalism. The technically dazzling shots only undermine the inherent tension of the story. Aaron Ralston is just a conduit to the spectacle, we don't occupy the same space as his. We are mere spectators, which is a shame.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by octagon

I used to very heavily fixate on plot. Even relatively modest plot holes or inconsistencies could bump a movie down several notches. And don't get me started on something like luring Cary Grant out into the middle of nowhere so you could try to whack him from a freaking cropdusting plane.

I'm very glad to have gotten over that. I can still appreciate a good plot driven film but they're no longer the only real game in town. In fact, they're not even the biggest game anymore.

I can enjoy them too, but the same way I enjoy cotton candy and how it evaporates almost instantaneously. Hell, I saw a lot of blockbusters this summer and enjoyed them. I don't mind plot contrivances. Even Prometheus for me failed on a character level, but their inconsistencies were like neon lights pointing at the plot holes.

To me, that's different than iScottie's assessments (sorry, not to beat a living horse and not trying to criticize or goad), because I don't believe that any of the films he listed were "cotton candy." I think it is remarkable how he plowed through so many films in such a short time, but I also feel that the unbridled enthusiasm/hunger was a disservice to his first viewings. And no, that's not to say his opinions aren't valid (I actually agree with several of his views), just that it was potentially setting up for disappointment. Sorry to lecture. I'm cranky and real life has just taken a serious turn, I think. This is my distraction.

Anyhoo. As to NxNW, if it helps your suspension of disbelief, my father was killed by a malicious crop duster at a dusty crossroads while being wrongfully pursued by G-Men. This was a week before my dog went to live on my auntie's farm... near that crossroad. Hey. I wonder... I think I need to have a talk with my Mom.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Blu-Velvet

Really, watching a few dozen Criterion Collection releases with all of their bonus features is like attending a good semester of film school (at a fraction of the expense and on your own personal schedule). ...and of course your regular reaction papers and analysis discussions are what you post in this Blu-ray.com thread!

I like this thought, and I'm inclined to agree.

While I have no desire to own every Criterion Collection Blu-ray, and know that there are some that just do not pique my interest when I see them on the shelf, I will say that I am more apt to blind-buy a Criterion movie than most others.

More importantly, though, I have never regretted a blind-buy purchase of a Criterion title. There have been a number of Criterion films that I did not quite "get" after the first viewing, but warmed up to after reading the essays and appreciating the place of the film in a historical standpoint. The Spirit of the Beehive is a great example, as is Black Moon.
(Speaking of which, the world needs a Blu-ray of The Spirit of the Beehive.)

I will freely admit that there's something "forced" about my mindset here, though.

When I was a teenager during the mid-to-late 1980s, I spent a lot of money on cassette tapes and, later on, CDs, and usually bought them after hearing just one song that I liked on the radio. I had this rule that, if I disliked a certain tape or CD, I would actually train myself to like it. I figured that, if I was spending my hard-earned money on music, then I needed to give the music a chance. Sometimes, I never would warm up to a band, but there were also times when I ended up loving a certain band after giving several listens to an album to let it sink in. When I bought my first album by The Smiths, based on a song I heard on a college radio station, I did not like the whole album much at all upon the first listen. I kept listening, though, and it suddenly hit me like a lead brick. The Smiths have been one of my favorite bands since.

In a similar way, there have been a handful of Criterion titles that did not quite quicken my pulse upon the first viewing, but later hit me like a brick when I watched them a second time. Fellini's 8 1/2 was one such movie. Onibaba was another one.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by IronWaffle

I can enjoy them too, but the same way I enjoy cotton candy and how it evaporates almost instantaneously. Hell, I saw a lot of blockbusters this summer and enjoyed them. I don't mind plot contrivances. Even Prometheus for me failed on a character level, but their inconsistencies were like neon lights pointing at the plot holes.

To me, that's different than iScottie's assessments (sorry, not to beat a living horse and not trying to criticize or goad), because I don't believe that any of the films he listed were "cotton candy." I think it is remarkable how he plowed through so many films in such a short time, but I also feel that the unbridled enthusiasm/hunger was a disservice to his first viewings. And no, that's not to say his opinions aren't valid (I actually agree with several of his views), just that it was potentially setting up for disappointment. Sorry to lecture. I'm cranky and real life has just taken a serious turn, I think. This is my distraction.

Anyhoo. As to NxNW, if it helps your suspension of disbelief, my father was killed by a malicious crop duster at a dusty crossroads while being wrongfully pursued by G-Men. This was a week before my dog went to live on my auntie's farm... near that crossroad. Hey. I wonder... I think I need to have a talk with my Mom.

Sorry to hear that. NxNW is now painted in a solemn, contemplative light and divorced from that consequence free zone we know as movies. Reality 24 frames per second.

I feel that same connection when I watch The Master or Crumb, the only difference being I am Freddie Quell and Crumb's little brother

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by octagon

I used to very heavily fixate on plot. Even relatively modest plot holes or inconsistencies could bump a movie down several notches. And don't get me started on something like luring Cary Grant out into the middle of nowhere so you could try to whack him from a freaking cropdusting plane.

I'm very glad to have gotten over that. I can still appreciate a good plot driven film but they're no longer the only real game in town. In fact, they're not even the biggest game anymore.

I think that my immersion into foreign films just over a decade ago helped me get over a fixation on plot holes.

I went through a big phase a decade ago where I bought a lot of contemporary Japanese horror films, like Ju-on: The Grudge, Kairo (Pulse), Ringu, The Eye, and several others. I eventually tired out of that phase and sold a few of the movies over the years, but these Japanese horror films were instrumental in tweaking my mindset about movie plots. Ju-on: The Grudge is a great example of a movie where the pieces just do not add up together, and the cards do not stack up to form a perfect tower, as the plots in Hollywood films usually do. I learned that different cultures do not have the aversion to "loose ends" in a plot that Americans tend to have. This is one reason why the American remakes of Ju-on: The Grudge, Pulse, and The Eye were all quite disastrous (The Ring, with Naomi Watts, was an acceptably good remake of Ringu, but it still misses the mark by a hair.). The American remakes tried to make all of the ends tie together and they watered down the films in the process.

I am still in admiration when a Hollywood film spins a plot together and wraps all the bows neatly in perfect Charles Dickens style (The Shawshank Redemption is a fine example.), but I do not require this sort of thing anymore to enjoy a movie.

[Scottie]

I just finished The Naked Kiss. It was the first Samuel Fuller film that I saw and I was really impressed by it. I didn't know how I was going to like it, especially because the description on IMDB is a bit confusing and complicated. However, I was really glad with the turnout. If this film is any indication of how Samuel Fuller is as a director, then I am definitely in for a treat with Shock Corridor later.

The Naked Kiss is a really good example of a neo-noir, in my opinion. It uses some of the film-noir elements, but with a really nice twist. It still uses a handful of the psychological and mystery concepts, but it employs them in a very different fashion.

The introduction scene alone is evidence that you will certainly be in for a ride in the 90 minutes that this film runs for.

I would definitely recommend it as a good introduction to the neo-noir genre.

On a side note relating to the film,

[Show spoiler]I think the best line of the entire film is "she never makes change". Kelly was a woman who not only changed her entire life around, but she also shook a town with her presence and her contributions.

Originally Posted by CoopFilm

The opening scene of The Naked Kiss is perfection.

Yes it was. It was easily one of the most powerful introductions that I've seen in a movie for a very long time. It set the stage nicely for what we were going to be seeing.

Originally Posted by octagon

Two excellent examples of films I wasn't exactly crazy about but didn't regret buying in the slightest. I don't know when (or even if) I'll ever get around to revisiting them but it's nice to have that option a few short steps away.

I can definitely see how it isn't for everybody. However, being a fan of both the film-noir and neo-noir genres, I really liked the use of similar concepts and styles but with a newer and more modern twist.

[Abdrewes]

Glad to see you enjoyed it. So wait up you liked the glorious trashiness of Naked Kiss, but not the whipping scene in 8 1/2

Just look out for the "Nymphos" line in Shock Corridor, one of the funniest lines in a hilarious movie. I feel like watching that one right now too, Jack The Giant Killer sapped all the energy from my being...need...resuscitation...

[hoytereden]

You gotta love the variety of the Criterion Collection. Everything from House to The Third Man, from Salo to The Seven Samurai, Equinox to The 400 Blows, and Pink Flamingos (laserdisc era) to The Gold Rush as just some examples of how extreme one can be to another. The beauty of it is that there is something there for just about any taste, emotion, genre, etc. that you might want to try. With such a wide variety of titles it's small wonder that certain ones just don't click for whatever reason. I can only echo what some others have said in giving the ones you're eh! or Huh? to a second (or third) chance.