The Criterion Collection

[The Great Owl]

I love watching foreign movies with subtitles, because I always forget that I'm reading the subtitles a few minutes into the movie, and because the (usually) unfamiliar language transports me into the imaginary world. Whenever I am presented with a choice, I always go for subtitles over dubbing.

I add the "usually", because I'm gradually picking up on bits and pieces of the French language, and because I have a mild fluency in Spanish.

In fact, I often watch certain English-language movies with subtitles when viewing a movie for the first time, especially if it's a movie with a sub-par audio presentation.

At any rate, I did not find the subtitles to be a distraction during Last Year at Marienbad. Then again, I still do not quite grasp the movie after multiple viewings.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by Louisville Slugger

My dad basically told me the same thing. He was 11 in 1968 and saw it in the theater. It really made a mark on him. He still has the soundtrack on LP.

I was a little older the first time he showed me 2001, maybe 14 or so.

I sent a tweet to Stanley Kubrick recently, but I never got a reply.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by vader4

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I've seen all of his films and I think all of them are pretty great. Spring Breakers can be a bit over the top at times, but I think that's the point. It describes our generation's sense of entitlement, desensitization to violence, as well as the little fads of our time. I'll give you that he may be a bit over the top at times, but it's never gratuitous and rather it seems to me he's more "Lars Von Trier" than "Tom Six". Have you seen all of his movies? My personal favorite is Gummo and I feel like I got more out of his movies because I started with that one.

I don't think Soring Breakers is over the top at all. In fact, my problem with the film is that it had no bite and that its ideas are half baked at best. It seems as if Korine started with a germ of an idea and really didn't know how to follow through. (I can post a link to my admittedly sloppy review, if you want)

I haven't seen his other films (I've known of their existence for quite some time), but My Lord!, the interviews I've seen of him make him look even less interesting.

That said, at some point in the future, I will see Gummo and maybe Julien Donkey Boy, but I'm not expecting too much.

[Abdrewes]

Dennis Quaid lists Five Easy Pieces as one of his favorite films on Rotten Tomatoes:

Five Easy Pieces is a film that hit me as a young man. Most of my favorite movies, I think, come from the '70s, in that period where I really wanted to become an actor. Jack Nicholson's performance in that... it's a film that would never be done by a major studio today.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by sc1957

No matter what language you speak, this is going to be a problem when you watch a movie that was filmed in another language. Of course, sometimes there are dubbed versions, but that's an entirely different issue with its own set of problems.

The ONLY TRUE SOLUTION: Don't watch films which don't use your native language.

...Or learn how to process subtitles quicker.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by sc1957

No matter what language you speak, this is going to be a problem when you watch a movie that was filmed in another language. Of course, sometimes there are dubbed versions, but that's an entirely different issue with its own set of problems.

The ONLY TRUE SOLUTION: Don't watch films which don't use your native language.

Totally agree...even my 13 year old has been watching Anime with me...subs only...can't watch with dubs. And I watch a lot of Japanese cinema...it loses a lot, when dubs are attempted.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by rkish

Totally agree...even my 13 year old has been watching Anime with me...subs only...can't watch with dubs. And I watch a lot of Japanese cinema...it loses a lot, when dubs are attempted.

Agreed. I can't stand dubs.

[BohemianGraham]

Although sometimes the subs are just so off base and out of whack. Case in point, Drunken Master. The version my friends and I watched had us rolling on the floor, not because it was supposed to be a comedy, but because the subs were just so out of whack with the rest of the film. It was kinda like watching Holy Grail with the Henry VI pt. 2 subs. Extremely hilarious, but utterly distracting from the film.

I used to watch dubs for some stuff, and occasionally still do, just for comparisons. I admit I do like the dub of Howl's Moving Castle, because you get Jean Simmons and Lauren Bacall, which is actually kinda neat. Oh yeah, and Billy Crystal and Christian Bale are also providing voices. It's really interesting to have Bale play such a foppish, spoiled, self-centred character like Howl.

[obscurelabel]

Originally Posted by bluesilo

Just finished Repo Man. WTF was that ending. Nuts. I really thought everything up to that point was well put together though. Need to give it some more time for reflection.

Also the credits going backwards is a little disarming.

The credits are an homage to Kiss Me Deadly which does this for the opening credits. Repo Man cops

[Show spoiler] its glowing "whatsit" in the car trunk from that movie (as does Pulp Fiction).

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Although sometimes the subs are just so off base and out of whack. Case in point, Drunken Master. The version my friends and I watched had us rolling on the floor, not because it was supposed to be a comedy, but because the subs were just so out of whack with the rest of the film. It was kinda like watching Holy Grail with the Henry VI pt. 2 subs. Extremely hilarious, but utterly distracting from the film.

I used to watch dubs for some stuff, and occasionally still do, just for comparisons. I admit I do like the dub of Howl's Moving Castle, because you get Jean Simmons and Lauren Bacall, which is actually kinda neat. Oh yeah, and Billy Crystal and Christian Bale are also providing voices. It's really interesting to have Bale play such a foppish, spoiled, self-centred character like Howl.

The Swedish horror movie, Let the Right One In, was initially released on DVD with an inferior subtitle translation that differed from the theatrical subtitles, but a corrected DVD was later released. I had seen this particular film at an indie theater here in Atlanta, so I noticed a couple of the subtitle differences and had to do a double-take.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Although sometimes the subs are just so off base and out of whack. Case in point, Drunken Master. The version my friends and I watched had us rolling on the floor, not because it was supposed to be a comedy, but because the subs were just so out of whack with the rest of the film. It was kinda like watching Holy Grail with the Henry VI pt. 2 subs. Extremely hilarious, but utterly distracting from the film.

I used to watch dubs for some stuff, and occasionally still do, just for comparisons. I admit I do like the dub of Howl's Moving Castle, because you get Jean Simmons and Lauren Bacall, which is actually kinda neat. Oh yeah, and Billy Crystal and Christian Bale are also providing voices. It's really interesting to have Bale play such a foppish, spoiled, self-centred character like Howl.

It's what I call " The Speed Racer Effect". This was only available to watch in the US in the dubbed form (back when I was a lad). Every parody of Speed Racer focuses on this as well. The staccato, over the top attempt to match English words and idioms with a Japanese diction and cadence. Quite amusing at times.

I watch all Japanese animation with the subs...even some of the better efforts by Studio Ghibli and Disney to hire voice talent to do English dubs.

[jcs913]

I have seen many posts about Marienbad, which I think is cinema at its best. First of all, not all film needs to have a plot to be a masterpiece, so stop looking for one. Second, I recommend watching the film, watching the supplements (especially the Resnais commentary and Vincendeau interview) and then watching the film again. You will be amazed what goes through your head after you hear some insight into the film. The subtitles should have no bearing on your understanding of the film. I have seen it many times over the years and the best insight I can give is think of it as a chess match with society being the pieces.... Remember, it does not have to have a plot to be a masterpiece, which goes for many films in the CC...

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Although sometimes the subs are just so off base and out of whack. Case in point, Drunken Master. The version my friends and I watched had us rolling on the floor, not because it was supposed to be a comedy, but because the subs were just so out of whack with the rest of the film. It was kinda like watching Holy Grail with the Henry VI pt. 2 subs. Extremely hilarious, but utterly distracting from the film.

I used to watch dubs for some stuff, and occasionally still do, just for comparisons. I admit I do like the dub of Howl's Moving Castle, because you get Jean Simmons and Lauren Bacall, which is actually kinda neat. Oh yeah, and Billy Crystal and Christian Bale are also providing voices. It's really interesting to have Bale play such a foppish, spoiled, self-centred character like Howl.

I've only seen the dubbed (English) version of Legend of the Drunken Master, but I hear the subs are no better (considering most of the dialogue was recorded in post).

I hate subs for Anime films. It kind of robs the film of its culture.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by jcs913

I have seen many posts about Marienbad, which I think is cinema at its best. First of all, not all film needs to have a plot to be a masterpiece, so stop looking for one. Second, I recommend watching the film, watching the supplements (especially the Resnais commentary and Vincendeau interview) and then watching the film again. You will be amazed what goes through your head after you hear some insight into the film. The subtitles should have no bearing on your understanding of the film. I have seen it many times over the years and the best insight I can give is think of it as a chess match with society being the pieces.... Remember, it does not have to have a plot to be a masterpiece, which goes for many films in the CC...

Well said. I enjoy Last Year at Marienbad first and foremost as a visual marvel of a film.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

I've kept a photographic record of my BD Collection since I had only a handful of Criterion titles, and taken quick snaps here and there as I've obtained more. It's interesting to look back and see how my Collection has grown little by little. Here's where it was two years ago, right after Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas and Blow Out were released:

[Show spoiler]

And here's a current shot:

[Show spoiler]

Apologies for the poor quality of the images...there's a reason I'm not a professional photographer. haha

Nice collection!

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I love watching foreign movies with subtitles, because I always forget that I'm reading the subtitles a few minutes into the movie, and because the (usually) unfamiliar language transports me into the imaginary world. Whenever I am presented with a choice, I always go for subtitles over dubbing.

I add the "usually", because I'm gradually picking up on bits and pieces of the French language, and because I have a mild fluency in Spanish.

In fact, I often watch certain English-language movies with subtitles when viewing a movie for the first time, especially if it's a movie with a sub-par audio presentation.

At any rate, I did not find the subtitles to be a distraction during Last Year at Marienbad. Then again, I still do not quite grasp the movie after multiple viewings.

I have to agree with this. I do not like the dubbed option at all, as it feels so awkward, in my opinion.

I enjoy reading the subtitles because, as you have already stated, it makes you sort of escape to a new world. It also helps me learn the language a bit more. For some English movies, I too put on the subtitles, especially if I'm watching it late at night and don't want a family member to wake up. I do, however, find myself using subtitles from time to time for the newer British films (i.e. Fish Tank and Shallow Grave). It's funny to see how the speech patterns have changed from the early 1900s, i.e. with Hitchcock films, to now.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Well said. I enjoy Last Year at Marienbad first and foremost as a visual marvel of a film.

It is fantastic and the cinematography is one of the best you will find in a B&W film.

In case you guys did not know, Deep Discount is having a 20% off sale and some of the newer CC releases are at $21 or so after the discount. I placed a little order on the ones I do not have yet. I typically get many from Criterion themselves, as they give you $50 back after you hit $500 in orders. I always receive the order before street date and they are always packaged perfectly. Order $50, which I always do, and shipping is free. I noticed a bunch of you guys complaining about packaging and delivery date, so maybe try out the source themselves.... They are generally a few dollars more than Amazon, but Amazon seems to be late with some deliveries and have packaging problems and gives you nothing back...
Food for thought folks...
As CC used to say when he made appearances..."Carry on"

[rkish]

Originally Posted by jcs913

I have seen many posts about Marienbad, which I think is cinema at its best. First of all, not all film needs to have a plot to be a masterpiece, so stop looking for one. Second, I recommend watching the film, watching the supplements (especially the Resnais commentary and Vincendeau interview) and then watching the film again. You will be amazed what goes through your head after you hear some insight into the film. The subtitles should have no bearing on your understanding of the film. I have seen it many times over the years and the best insight I can give is think of it as a chess match with society being the pieces.... Remember, it does not have to have a plot to be a masterpiece, which goes for many films in the CC...

Interesting analogy John! I'll try to use that mindset, when I pop it in to watch. I only lasted for a short bit the first time around and didn't watch any supplements (I agree...they should help to educate and explain). It took three viewings of "The Seventh Seal" to win me over, so patience is a virtue.

Always good to see you...don't be a stranger!

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by rkish

Interesting analogy John! I'll try to use that mindset, when I pop it in to watch. I only lasted for a short bit the first time around and didn't watch any supplements (I agree...they should help to educate and explain). It took three viewings of "The Seventh Seal" to win me over, so patience is a virtue.

Always good to see you...don't be a stranger!

Thanks Rich, I like to poke my head in once and a while to keep you guys honest...

As for Marienbad, a lot of Resnais' early films deal with the aftermath of war, politics (which I believe was such a cornerstone of the French New Wave movement) and the aftermath of the occupation. In general, societal consequences. I think this film shows some of that influence, it is more tangible and easier to see though in Night and Fog and Hiroshima mon amour. If you also notice the characters move more like pieces on a board(my chess reference) and do not show a lot of natural movement. Anyways, just a few nuggets to get others thinking more.

What's funny Rich is I know your love for Ozu, which is a little slow and simple for my overall taste, but the characters in Ozu films seem to move similarly to those in Marienbad. Always slow and calculated in relation to the story Ozu wants to tell. Them's my 2 cents... Enjoy...

[Xtempo]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I've only seen the dubbed (English) version of Legend of the Drunken Master, but I hear the subs are no better (considering most of the dialogue was recorded in post).

I hate subs for Anime films. It kind of robs the film of its culture.

so do you watch it without subs in the original Japanese or English Dub?

I like to have subs since I'm not fluent and if the English version is annoying like Love Hina's dub.

[brandon_260]

I've finally got Carlos coming my way. Traded a few titles I wasn't crazy about (The Blob, Brazil, A Man Escaped) for it and the UK Lynch set.

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

That said, at some point in the future, I will see Gummo and maybe Julien Donkey Boy, but I'm not expecting too much.

You should absolutely see Gummo. It's like a nightmarish Terrence Malick. I thought Donkey Boy was almost unwatchable though.