The Criterion Collection

[jw007]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm fond of going off on this particular rant, so fasten your seatbelts...

The internet has completely robbed music and movies of their mystique.

I remember listening to albums from R.E.M. and New Order back in the 1980s and constantly wondering about the meanings behind the cryptic lyrics and such, since these bands never printed lyrics on the album sleeves. I would go through music magazines whenever I had a chance, so that I could hopefully find interviews with these bands and learn more about them. Being a fan of these and other bands was an involved process that involved a commitment of learning more about one's favorite music. I remember all of the lunchroom conversations with friends and such back then about whether or not Iron Maiden really worshiped the devil, about whether or not Keith Richards had blood transfusions because of all his drugs, and so on. The legends, myths, and questions were all a fun part of loving music back in the day.

Movies had a similar mystique back then, especially when it came to horror movies and how the special effects were created. Fans of John Carpenter's Halloween, for example, would have to go through Fangoria magazines and such to learn about a stabbing scene where a large watermelon was placed inside an empty shirt to create realistic blood effects. My friends and I would rent tons of grindhouse horror movies back then and wonder how in the world those movies were created.

These days, though, a person hears an enjoyable song, looks up the band online, reads the band biography and lyrics in a matter of minutes, looks up other songs from the band to download them, and such. A person can watch a movie and then go online to learn all about the special effects. More often than not, in fact, people learn everything about the special effects during the weeks leading up to a movie's release. The thread in the Movies forum on this site dedicated to the upcoming Godzilla reboot is one example. Every day, we see a posting of a different film location, a different street shot, or a different teaser poster. When the movie comes out, there will be no need for any commitment about trying to figure out how that movie was made.

I personally believe that the sorry state of music these days is because people quickly lose interest in bands if they have instant access to all of the information and no longer have to commit themselves to researching their interests. Being a fan of a particular band or a particular movie requires no involvement anymore.

It's funny thinking about it now, but I remember back in the day when I had no idea when my favorite bands were releasing new albums. I'd browse the shelves at a record store and, all of a sudden, be surprised to see a new album from a favorite band sitting right there on the shelf.

I mean, the good old days were not always great, and I'm quite fond of the instant access to knowledge on the internet, but the loss of mystique is the consequence.

Yes!

and yes.

and again, yes.

So many yeses.

The loss of mystique.

Indeed.

So what happens after you lose the mystique?

Does everyone become jaded and apathetic?

Is this some sort of worldwide pandemic of "lost mystique"?

Is this like breaking up the natural cycle of life such as eliminating the honey bee in terms of the socio-behavioral human condition?

When mystery and surprise are gone, do we become more dehumanized?

What is the danger of "too much information"? Do people eventually take information for granted?

These are just some of the questions I think about when it comes to information overload (ie. supplemental materials on Criterion Collection films). No, just kidding. Criterion just does a good job opening up the conversation about the movie. Criterion is the GATEWAY to more information. It compels us to go on the internet and spend countless hours of reading about the movie until you pretty much know everything there is to know. Maybe some day, if the internet is eliminated (as in a governmental takeover or just a cataclysmic power grid/space satellite failure), people will go back to that time when we didn't have so much information at our ready. Maybe this is restoring the natural cycle of...cinema....and beyond.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by sc1957

Just because you CAN do something (look stuff up on the Internet) doesn't mean you HAVE to. If you dislike losing the "mystique," perhaps you should exercise some self-control. (not said to be negative... just sayin')

Yeah, this sounds a lot like the whole 'remember when you had to be a real gamer and couldn't just look up codes and walkthroughs on the internet'.

I do remember those days and frankly they weren't better.

Walkthroughs are an option. If you get stuck (and it's not always a difficult puzzle, sticking points are often the result of poor design or design choices that seemed like a great idea in a design meeting but don't work in practice) you have an alternative to beating your brians out trying to solve some bizarre game mechanic.

You don't have to take it but it's there if you want it.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by sc1957

Just because you CAN do something (look stuff up on the Internet) doesn't mean you HAVE to. If you dislike losing the "mystique," perhaps you should exercise some self-control. (not said to be negative... just sayin')

I'm sorry but additional information only enhances the film. I am not talking about "plots explained" but rather production details. Knowing how much research and additional training for the actors only makes me more in awe of his craft.

Criterion, make Thief happen. Hell, make Ali happen. Michael Mann deserves a spot in the collection.

[shortmartin]

Kes, Birdman of Alcatraz, of course The Birds, and perhaps Jurassic Park (if it counts) . . . maybe Three Days of the Condor. i'm sure there are many others, but these are the best movies about human/avian relations that I can think of.

anyways, to the earlier poster, yes check out Kes. Also, it makes a nice pairing with Au Hazard Balthazar . . . really interesting, if also depressing, movies about people, animals, and the bleak life.

[shortmartin]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Criterion, make Thief happen. Hell, make Ali happen. Michael Mann deserves a spot in the collection.

I'd be down for Thief day one. Personally, my preference would be for a sweet extras-packed release of the Insider, which I consider to be his best film, and I find the history of the tobacco wars riveting.

[shortmartin]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Michael Mann deserves a spot in the collection.

I like the changing avatars by the way. Are they Mann related?

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by shortmartin

I like the changing avatars by the way. Are they Mann related?

Very, very Mann related Hope you find gold when you revisit it later this summer

(Still need to pick up The Insider on BluRay. Incredible film)

[shortmartin]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Very, very Mann related Hope you find gold when you revisit it later this summer

that's what I figured, can't wait to watch it later on in the summer. the location shots look excellent.

[caiman]

Has the start date of the Barnes and Noble sale 50% been confirmed? Somebody told me July 9th.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by shortmartin

that's what I figured, can't wait to watch it later on in the summer. the location shots look excellent.

Listening to the commentary track, I learned so much about not only how Mann views the world, but also how well researched his films are, adding a thick coat of realism: staying true to geography, taking into account the changes in the drug trade landscape since the 1980's, etc.

I can't wait to listen to another Mann audio commentary. They are just what I like: very informative and contains very little fluff (the beloved Tropic Thunder actors commentary track did nothing for me).

[MitchA17]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm fond of going off on this particular rant, so fasten your seatbelts...

The internet has completely robbed music and movies of their mystique.

I remember listening to albums from R.E.M. and New Order back in the 1980s and constantly wondering about the meanings behind the cryptic lyrics and such, since these bands never printed lyrics on the album sleeves. I would go through music magazines whenever I had a chance, so that I could hopefully find interviews with these bands and learn more about them. Being a fan of these and other bands was an involved process that involved a commitment of learning more about one's favorite music. I remember all of the lunchroom conversations with friends and such back then about whether or not Iron Maiden really worshiped the devil, about whether or not Keith Richards had blood transfusions because of all his drugs, and so on. The legends, myths, and questions were all a fun part of loving music back in the day.

Movies had a similar mystique back then, especially when it came to horror movies and how the special effects were created. Fans of John Carpenter's Halloween, for example, would have to go through Fangoria magazines and such to learn about a stabbing scene where a large watermelon was placed inside an empty shirt to create realistic blood effects. My friends and I would rent tons of grindhouse horror movies back then and wonder how in the world those movies were created.

These days, though, a person hears an enjoyable song, looks up the band online, reads the band biography and lyrics in a matter of minutes, looks up other songs from the band to download them, and such. A person can watch a movie and then go online to learn all about the special effects. More often than not, in fact, people learn everything about the special effects during the weeks leading up to a movie's release. The thread in the Movies forum on this site dedicated to the upcoming Godzilla reboot is one example. Every day, we see a posting of a different film location, a different street shot, or a different teaser poster. When the movie comes out, there will be no need for any commitment about trying to figure out how that movie was made.

I personally believe that the sorry state of music these days is because people quickly lose interest in bands if they have instant access to all of the information and no longer have to commit themselves to researching their interests. Being a fan of a particular band or a particular movie requires no involvement anymore.

It's funny thinking about it now, but I remember back in the day when I had no idea when my favorite bands were releasing new albums. I'd browse the shelves at a record store and, all of a sudden, be surprised to see a new album from a favorite band sitting right there on the shelf.

I mean, the good old days were not always great, and I'm quite fond of the instant access to knowledge on the internet, but the loss of mystique is the consequence.

I see a lot of merit in your points, and I agree with much of them, but to me, a big factor is that, even in the age of instant information, all subtext really is optional.

Being 18, a member of the age group that many people (including myself) often consider the worst, I get the irritation that everything needs to have an interpretation or everything needs to have meaning. But being able to discuss interpretations (if you so wish) with people outside of my circle of friends or location. Seeing what other people think of Upstream Color or Bioshock Infinite's ending is rewarding and fascinating, and there are many things that I just choose to have my own thoughts on.

And sometimes I just choose to have my own interpretations of things. For example, I'm never really interested in what others say about "supernatural" film objects (The Great Whatsit, Marcellus' Briefcase, Lancaster Dodd's manuscripts, etc.), and I don't care about the meaning of vague lyrics.

So, I think the transparence of art can be a bad thing if the viewer never has to ask questions, but on the other hand, I do think we'll always have the option to ask questions.

P.S. Speaking of asking questions, I watched Stroszek last night, took a moment to recover, rewatched it with Herzog's commentary, and realized I had very little idea of what the film "meant", and I didn't really care if it meant anything. Excellent film, and one I'd love to see Criterion release someday.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Very, very Mann related Hope you find gold when you revisit it later this summer

(Still need to pick up The Insider on BluRay. Incredible film)

I bought The Insider during the 40% Barnes & Noble sale in June and the transfer is top notch. It's such a great film and I totally forgot just how good it is. I always thought Heat was Mann's best film but now I'm starting to think it could be The Insider.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by jw007

I bought The Insider during the 40% Barnes & Noble sale in June and the transfer is top notch. It's such a great film and I totally forgot just how good it is. I always thought Heat was Mann's best film but now I'm starting to think it could be The Insider.

Insider is just as great, that's for sure. The thing is, I think Mann has made at least 5 masterpieces, so I can't choose one over another.

(Looking up how much the insider will come out to with the B2G1 sale)

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Insider is just as great, that's for sure. The thing is, I think Mann has made at least 5 masterpieces, so I can't choose one over another.

(Looking up how much the insider will come out to with the B2G1 sale)

What do you think his 5 masterpieces are?

Here's something completely ridiculous... but....

Do you think Michael Mann will ever attempt in directing a science fiction film or is that just a pipe dream?

The two directors I dream of making a sci fi film are Michael Mann and Terrence Malick. Am I crazy saying this?

[brandon_260]

Instead of watching 8 1/2 today, I decided to try Owl's route and go for a title sitting on my shelf that I wasn't as enthusiastic about. I went with Lola Montes and I am more than glad I did. By far one of the most beautifully shot films I've ever seen. I'm pretty eager for the release of The Earrings of Madame de... now.

Slightly related, since this film is on the list. How many films from Cahiers du cinema's 100 films pour une cinémathèque idéale list have you guys seen? There's quite a few Criterion titles on there, as well as a few titles that would be wonderful additions to the collection. I'm at a shameful 18 right now, but I'll get few quite a few of these when I get through Hitchcock's American works and some of the other films on my shelf. http://letterboxd.com/rockywaschbaer...an-ideal-film/

[retask]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

You'll be lucky to get the original $39.99 price for the plastic case Blu-ray of The Third Man. If you have a plastic case copy, I'll give you $45 for it, just because I've been looking for it for a while.

[Show spoiler]I'm totally kidding. You'll get a lot more than that for either edition.

Lol. Sounds like a lot of the offers Im getting for it.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by jw007

What do you think his 5 masterpieces are?

Here's something completely ridiculous... but....

Do you think Michael Mann will ever attempt in directing a science fiction film or is that just a pipe dream?

The two directors I dream of making a sci fi film are Michael Mann and Terrence Malick. Am I crazy saying this?

You are not crazy in wanting those two directors to direct a SciFi film. That would be outstanding.

The five masterpieces in my opinion are:

[Show spoiler]•Miami Vice
•Heat
•The Insider
•Thief
•Public Enemies

As for those two "less popular" choices. I have yapped on and on about them in this thread and various others as to why I think they are so great.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

You are not crazy in wanting those two directors to direct a SciFi film. That would be outstanding.

The five masterpieces in my opinion are:

[Show spoiler]•Miami Vice
•Heat
•The Insider
•Thief
•Public Enemies

As for those two "less popular" choices. I have yapped on and on about them in this thread and various others as to why I think they are so great.

You don't consider Last of the Mohicans to be one of his masterpieces? I recently revisted that film on BD and I have to say that it is quite an astonishing achievement. The music is still stuck in my brain 3 weeks later I admit too.

Thanks for thinking I'm not crazy regarding the sci fi thing. I just think a Michael Mann sci fi movie would be amazing because I think he'd rely less on special effects and more on atmosphere and characters. I'm so sick of all these brainless, big, dumb sci fi movies like Oblivion or After Earth or World War Z or Star Trek Into Darkness or soon to come Elysium. I do think that Ender's Game may be one exception and could be a good movie actually.

[shortmartin]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

You are not crazy in wanting those two directors to direct a SciFi film. That would be outstanding.

The five masterpieces in my opinion are:

[Show spoiler]•Miami Vice
•Heat
•The Insider
•Thief
•Public Enemies

As for those two "less popular" choices. I have yapped on and on about them in this thread and various others as to why I think they are so great.

great write up of Bling Ring on the blog, by the way, I share many of your perspectives . . . right on, at times it felt like a shallow Starship Troopers (which I love) newsreel clip a big letdown of a movie, for me anyway.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by shortmartin

great write up of Bling Ring on the blog, by the way, I share many of your perspectives . . . right on, at times it felt like a shallow Starship Troopers (which I love) newsreel clip a big letdown of a movie, for me anyway.

Thanks!

That review kind of frustrated me. It almost reads as shallow as the film actually is. I felt there were more layers to explore, but alas, they evaded me. I hope my White House Down review will be better

Yeah, Starship Troopers is exactly the film that benefits from hindsight. In fact, it was oddly percent considering the Bush years were still ahead of us.