The Criterion Collection

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by lastemp3ror

Can anyone recommend 2-3 must buys from the Criterion Collection that are only on DVD (not released on Blu). I am going to get Samurai Rebellion for sure. I was also considering Bicycle Thieves. Anything else?

I'm late to the party, but here are three awesome Criterion DVDs...

Touchez Pas Au Grisbi
The Vanishing
Rififi

I would, of course, mention Bob Le Flambeur, Le Deuxième Souffle, Le Doulos, and Le Samouraï, but you mentioned that you have all of Melville's stuff already.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by bdmartin134

[/SPOILER]

Incredible read Great Owl.. I too have been on a Chaplin kick and have Verdoux lined up for this weekend. I was excited before to watch it, but now my patience is wearing thin.. Hopefully I have the time tonight.

Thanks. If I had to rank the four Criterion Chaplin offerings (the only four Chaplin movies that I've seen, unfortunately), I would go for...

1. Modern Times
2. The Gold Rush
3. Monsieur Verdoux
4. The Great Dictator

I keep switching back and forth with Modern Times and The Gold Rush. In fact, I believe that I posted yesterday that I like The Gold Rush (1925) best. Changing my mind again today.

All four of the movies are pretty much perfect tens, though.

[lastemp3ror]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm late to the party, but here are three awesome Criterion DVDs...

Touchez Pas Au Grisbi
The Vanishing
Rififi

I would, of course, mention Bob Le Flambeur, Le Deuxième Souffle, Le Doulos, and Le Samouraï, but you mentioned that you have all of Melville's stuff already.

Better late than never? All kidding aside, I appreciate as many recommendations as possible. Going to hit BN HARD tonight. I may prolong their longevity as B&M store when I am done with them.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Natural Born Killers is not a bad movie, but it is heavy-handed to an annoying extent. A friend and I saw the movie on the day of release back when we were in college, and I've seen it about 20 times since. It's one of those movies that I've tried to appreciate more than I do, but Oliver Stone often has trouble with the concept of making a little go a long way, and, instead, he tends to use a bazooka to kill a mosquito. Even one of Stone's more subdued films, Wall Street, has a misstep of a scene where Michael Douglas's Gordon Gekko is having the conversation with Daryl Hannah about love, and this scene reduces Gekko to a cartoonish figure. I mean, Natural Born Killers is fun in many ways, and it has a killer soundtrack, but I just cannot get past the heavy-handedness.

Even after my first viewing of Monsieur Verdoux, I'm of the opinion that it succeeds at making many of the same statements with more finesse.

It's clearly a film born out of societal ills: but it could be no other way, subtlety would have diminished its effect. Natural Born Killers is a film that has to be bludgeoningly big and garish because of the times it reflects (most notably the huge coverage of the OJ trial). And Stone matches that with the frenzied visuals: animation, B&W, fake sitcoms, MTV Music Video interludes, wild superpositions, etc. The camera as a pen. Stone utilized all these techniques to represent how saturated as a society we are in terms of media consumption.

I have no problem with his shouty style, because afterall: JFK conspiracy theories, serial killers, Vietnam, talk radio, the war on drugs, etc. are all shouty topics.

[The Bronx Bull]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm late to the party, but here are three awesome Criterion DVDs...

Touchez Pas Au Grisbi
The Vanishing
Rififi

I would, of course, mention Bob Le Flambeur, Le Deuxième Souffle, Le Doulos, and Le Samouraï, but you mentioned that you have all of Melville's stuff already.

Owl, you really like Touchez Pas Au Grisbi, huh? Based on your recommendation I keep scouring for a copy, but I can't seem to find one at a reasonable price. I loved Le Trou, and I'm all about Melville's crime films, so no doubt I will like the film.

Another I'm wanting to check out is "Le Corbeau" or The Raven, which is a Cloutzot.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

It's clearly a film born out of societal ills: but it could be no other way, subtlety would have diminished its effect. Natural Born Killers is a film that has to be bludgeoningly big and garish because of the times it reflects (most notably the huge coverage of the OJ trial). And Stone matches that with the frenzied visuals: animation, B&W, fake sitcoms, MTV Music Video interludes, wild superpositions, etc. The camera as a pen. Stone utilized all these techniques to represent how saturated as a society we are in terms of media consumption.

I have no problem with his shouty style, because afterall: JFK conspiracy theories, serial killers, Vietnam, talk radio, the war on drugs, etc. are all shouty topics.

I appreciate the reasons why Oliver Stone made Natural Born Killers the way that he did, and that film has been spot-on prophetic in many ways. Just this week, Rolling Stone Magazine has drawn attention for featuring Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on the latest cover.

My understanding of Stone's style of cinematography does not necessarily translate to a fun movie experience, though, and I prefer the less-is-more approach of the similar subject matter in Charlie Chaplin's Monsieur Verdoux. That film is quite brilliant with how it makes us laugh along with the plight of a serial killer, only to have us ask ourselves why we were emotionally invested in following his story.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by The Bronx Bull

Owl, you really like Touchez Pas Au Grisbi, huh? Based on your recommendation I keep scouring for a copy, but I can't seem to find one at a reasonable price. I loved Le Trou, and I'm all about Melville's crime films, so no doubt I will like the film.

Another I'm wanting to check out is "Le Corbeau" or The Raven, which is a Cloutzot.

I did not realize until just now that Touchez Pas Au Grisbi is out of print. This is sad for so many reasons. I hope that the film becomes available to all in some form or fashion on Blu-ray later on. It's that good.

Becker's Le Trou is out of print as well. On the bright side, it seems that Becker's Casque D’or is still available.

Le Corbeau is pretty awesome. I prefer The Wages of Fear and Diabolique, but Le Corbeau ranks almost up there with those. If you've seen Haneke's The White Ribbon, then you'll appreciate Le Corbeau all the more.

[Abdrewes]

^^^
Never said it was "fun", but each shot is something notable.

To bring things full circle, I just hate it when people go for "easy targets" in their reviews, especially Stone's works. He simply isn't "cool" anymore to many, so I really take offense when people try to bury him deeper. In my mind, he was the most interesting American director from the mid '80's to the mid '90's, yet modern cinephiles like to shrug him off.

I wish Criterion would release one of his films. Maybe Salvador or Talk Radio.

[shortmartin]

Originally Posted by COLD_COBRA_

I've never sold a dvd or blu-ray in my life, but for some reason I have the strongest urge to sell Shoah and get 2 regular criterions in return. It looks awesome up on the shelf, but I don't know what it is...

The fact that I really don't have 9 1/2 hours for a movie, not with work full time, school and girls, tv (dexter, bb, newsroom) Maybe because it's a documentary and none of my other criterions are docs, although I want the war room (speaking of a criterion that's never mentioned on here). I'm just being petty I guess.

Harlan County and Salesman are also good Criterion docs (and work related)

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

^^^
Never said it was "fun", but each shot is something notable.

To bring things full circle, I just hate it when people go for "easy targets" in their reviews, especially Stone's works. He simply isn't "cool" anymore to many, so I really take offense when people try to bury him deeper. In my mind, he was the most interesting American director from the mid '80's to the mid '90's, yet modern cinephiles like to shrug him off.

I wish Criterion would release one of his films. Maybe Salvador or Talk Radio.

I admittedly tend to think of Oliver Stone in the same way that I think of Pink Floyd's album, The Wall. When I discovered The Wall during my middle school years, it seemed like the perfect subversive rebellious album that spoke volumes about what I was going through. I outgrew that album in subsequent years, though, and it now seems heavy-handed and jarring in the same way that some of the Oliver Stone films can be when I watch them now as an adult.

Oliver Stone has made some fascinating movies that provide some food for thought, but his style just does not sit well with me a lot of the time.

Roger Ebert has a great assessment of Oliver Stone's The Doors. "Watching the movie is like being stuck in a bar with an obnoxious drunk, when you’re not drinking."
For me, most of Oliver Stone's films play out in a similar way.

I still enjoy watching Platoon and Wall Street on occasion. I pick up the Blu-rays of these movies every time I see them in a store, and I'll pull the trigger one of these days.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Roger Ebert has a great assessment of Oliver Stone's The Doors. "Watching the movie is like being stuck in a bar with an obnoxious drunk, when you’re not drinking.".

Adequately describes Savages. One of the worst films I've seen in years.

[Abdrewes]

Roger Ebert was also much older than you when he gave Born on the Fourth of July, Platoon, Talk Radio, JFK, Natural Born Killers and Nixon all 4 star reviews, not to mention several others 3.5/4 star reviews. Hence, it is possible to be a fully grown, educated adult and get something out of his films.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

Adequately describes Savages. One of the worst films I've seen in years.

As long as we are talking about Ebert's take on Oliver Stone movies, he was one of the biggest fans of Savages. So, no, he wouldn't have described it as such.

[SammyJankis]

Ebert's opinion on The Doors never changed. He'd go on Letterman years later with Siskel, reiterating his negative stance on the film. Age has no significance in the context of these reviews.

JFK, Born on the Fourth, and Wall Street are great, by the way.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

Adequately describes Savages. One of the worst films I've seen in years.

I am glad that I gave Savages a chance, but I did not care for it at all.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

As long as we are talking about Ebert's take on Oliver Stone movies, he was one of the biggest fans of Savages. So, no, he wouldn't have described it as such.

... Huh? I'm just saying that quote describes the film for me.

[Crimson King]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

Ebert's opinion on The Doors never changed. He'd go on Letterman years later with Siskel, reiterating his negative stance on the film. Age has no significance in the context of these reviews.

JFK, Born on the Fourth, and Wall Street are great, by the way.

The Doors should have been called "Jim", since the other Doors were just bit players in the film.
Of course the other three members were stellar musicians IMO.
the late Ray Manzerek hated the film

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Roger Ebert was also much older than you when he gave Born on the Fourth of July, Platoon, Talk Radio, JFK, Natural Born Killers and Nixon all 4 star reviews, not to mention several others 3.5/4 star reviews. Hence, it is possible to be a fully grown, educated adult and get something out of his films.

Born on the Fourth of July is a better movie than most give it credit for.
I personally did not care for JFK or Nixon. I get what he was going for with the movies, but they simply did not quicken my pulse.

It's worth noting that my initial reference to Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers was not an outright diss. I simply think that Monsieur Verdoux is vastly superior when it comes to subversive cinema.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by SammyJankis

... Huh? I'm just saying that quote describes the film for me.

Noted.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Born on the Fourth of July is a better movie than most give it credit for.
I personally did not care for JFK or Nixon. I get what he was going for with the movies, but they simply did not quicken my pulse.

It's worth noting that my initial reference to Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers was not an outright diss. I simply think that Monsieur Verdoux is vastly superior when it comes to subversive cinema.

"Vastly superior" not a diss, okay.

There are much more appropriate films to reference,like for example: Arsenic and old Lace. Bringing in those two films (especially Spring Breakers), just reads like a quick offhand dismissal. My stance on film appreciation is more of an inclusionist one, that sounds very exclusionary. Very few patrons dislike Chaplin, so it seems like the easy snub too.

It's almost like writing a Citizen Kane review which includes a snub of The people vs. Larry Flynt.