The Criterion Collection

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by iScottie

It seems as if a lot of things sound better and make more sense when spoken in the native language. That being said, I would assume that some things are ultimately lost.

In Erik Skjoldbjærg's Insomnia, the fact that Stellan Skarsgård's character is from Sweden and speaks as such is a key point in the film, because several of the Norwegian characters have trouble understanding him. The specifics, unfortunately, are lost on most of us who do not have an understanding of Scandinavian languages and accents.

This fortunately does not interfere with my enjoyment of Insomnia, because I can still grasp the overall point, but I wish that I were more knowledgable about the differences when I revisit the movie.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by Rich Pure Doom

I just picked up World On A Wire from a used movie shop at a great price but I've never seen it before. What is everyone's thoughts and opinions on this release?

I posted my thoughts about it in this thread a couple of months ago that I expanded into a user review on the film's dedicated page:

[Show spoiler]World on a Wire is brilliant and beautiful to look at. What German director Rainer Fassbinder accomplished with modest budgets is amazing. An original work that has influenced other science fiction films, particularly The Matrix, it is one of the most outstanding films Criterion has ever released and one that the company is very proud of being able to present in a colorful new digital restoration. In my opinion, it was their release of the year when it came out in early 2012.

The story is difficult to describe without giving away the twists that make the film so intriguing and full of surprises (and spoil it for those who have not seen it). I think of the premise as something akin to a set of Russian nesting dolls, as the main character, a cool and clinical cybernetics engineer named Fred Stiller, investigates a series of mysteries, including a suicide, at his company Simulacron involving a computer simulation project. The program recreates a realistic and functioning virtual world where social modeling is used on virtual people to better predict how humans will respond to commercial marketing and other situations. Sounds a bit dull, right? Not quite. In between fending off the sudden interests of bosomy blondes, Stiller slowly uncovers an apparent conspiracy so frightening and powerful it threatens his definition of the real world we see around us every day. Bit by bit, the logical, self-controlled Stiller finds himself breaking down as he morphs between realities and comes to realize the lethal consequences of looking too closely into Simulacron's collusion with shadowy government agencies. Fassbinder uses the Stiller character to explore themes of paranoia and mental stability in a future society, while raising questions about technology and its effects on humanity. Much like Blade Runner, it has strong noir elements. Because World on a Wire has influenced more recent better known films, it may not appear to a viewer as fresh as it did to audiences in 1973, but it is still a first rate film and classic of science fiction.

I read an article a couple of years ago that World on a Wire should appeal to fans of Kubrick, Philip K. Dick, and Kurt Vonnegut, and I agree with that assessment. It deserves to be brought back to the forefront and should be on the short list of any Criterion or sci-fi fan who does not own it.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

In Erik Skjoldbjærg's Insomnia, the fact that Stellan Skarsgård's character is from Sweden and speaks as such is a key point in the film, because several of the Norwegian characters have trouble understanding him. The specifics, unfortunately, are lost on most of us who do not have an understanding of Scandinavian languages and accents.

This fortunately does not interfere with my enjoyment of Insomnia, because I can still grasp the overall point, but I wish that I were more knowledgable about the differences when I revisit the movie.

Now that you mention it, I recall that scene from the film.

While it would be nice to differentiate the two languages better, I think it creates a parallel between the audience and the other characters involved in the film. Just as many of the characters in the film accept what they believe as the truth, we too must be able to decide whether Stellan Skarsgård is being upfront or not.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it, but I think the idea of translations, specifically the usage of them, can make for a rather interesting plot point - especially if the littlest details are interpreted in such a way that ultimately makes or breaks the climax of the film.

[*DrStrangelove*]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

Here is the best analogy about translation ever written by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra from his masterpiece Don Quixote:

"Translating from one language to another, unless it is from Greek and Latin, the queens of all languages, is like looking at Flemish tapestries from the wrong side, for although the figures are visible, they are covered by threads that obscure them, and cannot be seen with the smoothness and color of the right side."

This is interesting. I can see a huge difference in the English subtitles on Y Tu Mama Tambien. A lot of the humor is found in the Mexican slang that is used between Julio and Tenoch. That of course is lost in translation. Man, I need to learn French or Japanese.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Now that you mention it, I recall that scene from the film.

While it would be nice to differentiate the two languages better, I think it creates a parallel between the audience and the other characters involved in the film. Just as many of the characters in the film accept what they believe as the truth, we too must be able to decide whether Stellan Skarsgård is being upfront or not.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it, but I think the idea of translations, specifically the usage of them, can make for a rather interesting plot point - especially if the littlest details are interpreted in such a way that ultimately makes or breaks the climax of the film.

Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish are a particularly odd case cause the languages are so similar that people who speak one can generally get the gist of whatever is being said by people who speak the other two, because there are a ton of cognates. The specific words that wouldn't be understandable to a Norwegian in those scenes and the exact understanding they'd have of him is basically impossible to grasp as a non-Norwegian without like, annotated subtitles. It doesn't ruin the movie or anything, it's just an example of the kind of thing that's lost with translations.

[monorail91]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

This is interesting. I can see a huge difference in the English subtitles on Y Tu Mama Tambien. A lot of the humor is found in the Mexican slang that is used between Julio and Tenoch. That of course is lost in translation. Man, I need to learn French or Japanese.

This I'm sure goes for all films, but missing out on the song lyrics in the subtitles is a sad loss as well. For instance, the song during the iconic dance among the three towards the film end, has a chorus which roughly translates to "There is nothing harder than living without you"

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

In Erik Skjoldbjærg's Insomnia, the fact that Stellan Skarsgård's character is from Sweden and speaks as such is a key point in the film, because several of the Norwegian characters have trouble understanding him. The specifics, unfortunately, are lost on most of us who do not have an understanding of Scandinavian languages and accents.

That exact issue also comes up in the Swedish/Danish television show The Bridge. When characters from the two countries are conversing, they make frequent references to whether or not they can understand each other. From what I was able to glean from some cursory research, Swedish and Danish function like two significantly different dialects of the same language.

[AaronJ]

Good lord, I cannot wait for L'Avventura. What an amazing, hypnotic, stunning film.

And honestly, I'd get pretty much anything with Monica Vitti.

[ElliesDad]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

[Show spoiler] http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TC3kqFUmqQ

Thanks for that Fellini!! On my very-short-list of all-time favorites, one that takes me back to a particular time in my life when the rigors of college life at a downtown campus were often alleviated by sojourns at OB's, a nearby pool-hall-and-minor-den-of-iniquity. I've watched it a dozen times over the years and for me it has never lost it's magic, or it's immediacy. A great, atmospheric period piece and a genuine classic!

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Good lord, I cannot wait for L'Avventura. What an amazing, hypnotic, stunning film.

I can't wait either. Too bad it comes out late in November and will likely just miss the B&N sale. Though I'm sure the price will drop some time during the holiday season.

[ShellOilJunior]

Happy Wednesday:

[Show spoiler]

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Happy Wednesday:

[Show spoiler]

I wish that Criterion would release Billy Wilder's Love in the Afternoon.

I've got the Kino Lorber Blu-rays of The Unforgiven and The Children's Hour on their way to me in the mail, so that's two more Audrey Hepburn titles off of my list. I want the Wilder film, though.

[Tin Drum]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

Are the people who are always waiting for Amazon to price match Best Buy all Prime members? I can't think of another reason not to just order it from Best Buy.

I am not a prime member but I have credit at amazon so that is why I got in on the deal there. Also Amazon does not charge sales tax in my state...yet.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

I love this film and grew up watching it. I'm excited Criterion released it on blu. Gael Garcia Bernal and Diego Luna are great together. I also love the other film they did together "Rudo y Cursi" directed by Alfonso's brother Carlos Cuaron. I'm not sure how well the jokes translate thou.
Ive always wondered that whenever I watch foreign films. Like say, Band of Outsiders, are there jokes that are lost in translation? Am I missing something not knowing French? I don't see how I can love that film more thou

Rudo y Cursi was A LOT more fun that I expected it to be. I really like GGB. I know he is still working, but it doesn't seem like he's been in any high profile projects recently.

Spanish certainly has idioms, but I really don't think much is lost in translation. It is a very simple language.

EDIT: I replied before reading others replies. IDK.. I disagree - at least as far as Spanish goes. I haven't seen Y tu Mama in a while, so I can't speak with specific authority, but a film like The Devils Backbone (granted there aren't many jokes) translates fine. I was about to say 'word for word,' but that isn't true at all really... and that's because English is a much richer, wordier, descriptive language. If you are Spanish and having to read the subtitles to say, The Sweet Smell of Success.. well, then - forget it!!

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish are a particularly odd case cause the languages are so similar that people who speak one can generally get the gist of whatever is being said by people who speak the other two, because there are a ton of cognates. The specific words that wouldn't be understandable to a Norwegian in those scenes and the exact understanding they'd have of him is basically impossible to grasp as a non-Norwegian without like, annotated subtitles. It doesn't ruin the movie or anything, it's just an example of the kind of thing that's lost with translations.

Thanks for the clarification.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I wish that Criterion would release Billy Wilder's Love in the Afternoon.

I've got the Kino Lorber Blu-rays of The Unforgiven and The Children's Hour on their way to me in the mail, so that's two more Audrey Hepburn titles off of my list. I want the Wilder film, though.

A good film that could've been great had Wilder been able to snag Cary Grant for the role that went to Gary Cooper (Too old for the role).

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

A good film that could've been great had Wilder been able to snag Cary Grant for the role that went to Gary Cooper (Too old for the role).

I can see that. It wouldn't be the first time that Hepburn starred with an older male lead, but still...

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

A good film that could've been great had Wilder been able to snag Cary Grant for the role that went to Gary Cooper (Too old for the role).

They were both too old for the role. Hepburn made several movies where she was the love interest of much older men -- it's a little creepy. Someone like Gregory Peck would have been a better fit.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

A good film that could've been great had Wilder been able to snag Cary Grant for the role that went to Gary Cooper (Too old for the role).

It's one of my least favorite Billy Wilder films (which means it's still good), but I seem to have the same complaint as others - it could have had better casting.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

1. Le Gang
2. Faust (MOC)
3. Borsalino & Co
4. Chaplin Mutual Comedies
5. All That Jazz
6. Sullivan's Travels
+ Herzog Region B releases.

And a lot more planned...

Pro-B

Hey Pro-B - can we expect a review of Truffaut's Stolen Kisses (region B)? They just announced it, I guess, and it already has a street date of less than a week away.

all of these foreign releases are breaking me down..