The Criterion Collection

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

You've just proven my point re: snobbery. Thanks.

With only a hint of facetiousness, the "correct" way to go would be to become proficient in the language in question and watch it without dubbing OR subs, both of which are compromises.

it is the "correct" way to go because a language overdub changes the inherent characteristics of the film itself. I'm sorry, but that is a no no. if that makes me a "snob," then fine I'll wear it, but like I said, people can do whatever they want with a film and while watching a film. I'm not going to judge.

I'd like for my dad to watch Rififi . I noticed that it has an English overdub track. there's no way he'd watch it otherwise. in fact, he's said to my mother in my presence, "how can he watch that crap?" (subtitled films) so, yeah, it is the "correct" way for me. I don't care what anyone else does or how they do it because it doesn't affect me. preferring to read the subtitles as opposed to a language overdub track is probably the minority opinion. trying to convince my dad or anyone else otherwise would be a losing battle that I can't be bothered with.

with subtitles, I won't even make the argument that it is the "lesser of two evils," because there is no 'evil,' so to say, with subtitles. with subtitles, something is being added to the film. an overdub takes things away from the film - as other posters have mentioned: voice inflection, the actor's performance, etc.

can you imagine Brando's funeral parlor seen in Last Tango in Paris with a foreign language overdub? how about any Peter Lorre role overdubbed? a Godard film with an English overdub? the last 2 lines of Pierrot le Fou overdubbed?

my personal list of egregious film alterations from worst to least worst
1. overdub tracks
2. colorization of b&w films
3. movies on tv edited for language and content
4. widescreen films in full screen format
5. movies on tv edited for language

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

I picked up the new UK Blu-ray of Shoot The Piano Player as it has Raoul Coutard's audio commentary on it, which is lacking from the Criterion DVD (which I also own). It's a nice disc too, well worth the £12.99.

I'd love to see any Truffaut added.. SOON! I watched The Bride Wore Black last night. It's well acted (expected nothing less from Jeanne Moreau!) and a good deal of fun. Worth about 3 out of 4 stars. Inconsequential, but fun.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I'd love to see any Truffaut added.. SOON! I watched The Bride Wore Black last night. It's well acted (expected nothing less from Jeanne Moreau!) and a good deal of fun. Worth about 3 out of 4 stars. Inconsequential, but fun.

Tarantino had no problem borrowing from it.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Tarantino had no problem borrowing from it.

that didn't occur to me, but yes. you're right. there is also an upcoming tv show for which I saw the commercial last night while eating dinner and I thought, "geez, that is the exact same premise for the movie I just saw!" I read Truffaut wasn't too pleased with how this one turned out, but it does have its moments - watching how she enacts her revenge is what makes it fun.

[The Great Owl]

I decided to watch the Criterion Blu-ray of Robert Bresson's 1959 film, Pickpocket, last night as an antidote of sorts to the sensory overload of the Marvel film, Guardians of the Galaxy, which I had seen earlier in the afternoon. The Marvel film was certainly enjoyable and engaging in its own right, but Bresson's Pickpocket, by comparison, is a true case study of how less can be more in terms of filmmaking. Despite using blank-faced nonprofessional actors in nondescript settings while avoiding overt music cues or close-ups, Bresson's film somehow manages to capture our attention in a way that allows our own imagination and empathy to enhance the experience.

Although I have only seen two of his films, A Man Escaped and Pickpocket, I can already attest to the fact that Bresson depicts the basics of physical process like no other director. In the same way that A Man Escaped drew its tension from simple acts, like the dismantling of a wooden board from a door, Pickpocket finds its real urgency in the scenes where Michel, played by Martin LaSalle, learns the art of theft from an experienced pickpocket criminal and trains with two accomplices. We see wallets and purses changing hands rapidly with little or no background music in the sequences, and these scenes tell us everything that we need to know without cluttering the story with background details or overtly climactic plot elements. Even the comparably emotional final scene, where Michel finds a tangible connection with Jeanne, played by Marika Green (who looks like an even prettier version of Natalie Portman), finds its strength in subtlety.

I did not relate to Pickpocket quite as much as I relate to A Man Escaped, simply because I did not feel as much of a kinship with the main character, but Bresson's simplicity and singleness of effect still had me reeled in from the beginning. If for no other reason, I recommend this movie for its white-knuckle suspense moments that illustrate the head rush that can be found in doing something with a clear risk of being caught.

This Criterion Blu-ray shines with an incredible video presentation, and it's yet another example of how black-and-white cinema can flourish in the format. This disc sounds great as well, and the audio presentation showcases the importance of low-key sound effects. I am still making my way through all of the extras, but the introduction by Paul Schrader is golden, as is The Models of "Pickpocket", which re-introduces us to the film's main actors.

[The Stick]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I don't care what anyone else does or how they do it because it doesn't affect me. preferring to read the subtitles as opposed to a language overdub track is probably the minority opinion. trying to convince my dad or anyone else otherwise would be a losing battle that I can't be bothered with.

I suppose I've been watching foreign films for decades now that reading subtitles have become like second nature to me. It doesn't bother me one bit. I do remember the flap a few years back when PAN'S LABYRINTH first came to local theaters. Management had to post signs at the box-office that PAN'S LABYRINTH was subtitled... due to people complaining about not wanting to have to read a movie

my personal list of egregious film alterations from worst to least worst
1. overdub tracks
2. colorization of b&w films
3. movies on tv edited for language and content
4. widescreen films in full screen format
5. movies on tv edited for language

I can sympathize with the above...but I'll add one that really annoys me:

6. Films with sub-titles that flash way too quickly

That was what happened with my first viewing of L'Avventura. I had recorded the film off cable...but on this particular version the subtitles flashed on and off the screen so quickly that I didn't get to finish reading it before it flashed off. It was such a frustrating watch that I didn't even finish the first 1/2 hour of the film and deleted my recording. As I said, I'm used to reading subtitles but on this particular version the timing was off

I've yet to see L'Avventura, but I plan on purchasing the upcoming Criterion because I've never had any issues with the subtitles on their films

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by The Stick

I suppose I've been watching foreign films for decades now that reading subtitles have become like second nature to me. It doesn't bother me one bit. I do remember the flap a few years back when PAN'S LABYRINTH first came to local theaters. Management had to post signs at the box-office that PAN'S LABYRINTH was subtitled... due to people complaining about not wanting to have to read a movie

I can sympathize with the above...but I'll add one that really annoys me:

6. Films with sub-titles that flash way too quickly

That was what happened with my first viewing of L'Avventura. I had recorded the film off cable...but on this particular version the subtitles flashed on and off the screen so quickly that I didn't get to finish reading it before it flashed off. It was such a frustrating watch that I didn't even finish the first 1/2 hour of the film and deleted my recording. As I said, I'm used to reading subtitles but on this particular version the timing was off

I've yet to see L'Avventura, but I plan on purchasing the upcoming Criterion because I've never had any issues with the subtitles on their films

Okay, I'll add one:

7. White sub-titles on white backgrounds. You don't see this so much today (yellow subtitles seem to be the default) but 10-15 years ago almost all sub-titles were white. Do you know how many Bergman films have snow in them? I still see it sometimes with older films that are broadcast via Internet channels, but thankfully it's rare.

[StLouisRibs]

Hm... it appears Arrow Video over in R2 will be doing some kind of fancy re-release (with a new scan?) of Withnail & I. Given we know Time Bandits (the same production company) is re-entering the collection, might this be coming back in print as a BD?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by StLouisRibs

Hm... it appears Arrow Video over in R2 will be doing some kind of fancy re-release (with a new scan?) of Withnail & I.

Now there's a film that could use an English language dub

[The Stick]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Okay, I'll add one:

7. White sub-titles on white backgrounds. You don't see this so much today (yellow subtitles seem to be the default) but 10-15 years ago almost all sub-titles were white. Do you know how many Bergman films have snow in them? I still see it sometimes with older films that are broadcast via Internet channels, but thankfully it's rare.

I hated that too...but you are right...older film formats had this issue along with my aforementioned "speed-reader's" subtitles.

I've a tendency to turn ON subtitles even with English language film.
It's a personal preference of mine, I know - but sometimes I may miss bits of dialogue with subtitles off. I know this happens because once in a while you go: "what did he say"? and have to rewind a bit. That's why I like turning on the english subtitles option.

But what I am finding is it's rare to see an ENGLISH only option on blu-rays.
More often it's only the ENGLISH FOR THE HEARING IMPARED option available - which is a whole 'nother story

[alien2010]

Review for Eraserhead is up and its great news all round PQ, AQ and Extras are pristine and detailed. Can't wait for my pre-order to come through.

[Joeker]

Would like some opinions before I place an order. Should I get Traffic or Dazed & Confused? I know they are completely different movies, just want to know which one is the better Criterion.

[Alex DeLarge]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Okay, I'll add one:

7. White sub-titles on white backgrounds. You don't see this so much today (yellow subtitles seem to be the default) but 10-15 years ago almost all sub-titles were white. Do you know how many Bergman films have snow in them? I still see it sometimes with older films that are broadcast via Internet channels, but thankfully it's rare.

I like small white subtitles that are outlined by a very thin black border. I can't stand yellow subs and find them too distracting especially in B&W films.

Personally, I never watch a dub if I have a choice. Many classic Italian films are dubbed in their native language because of archaic censorship standards. But that's not quite the same as hired voice actors dubbing a completely different language. The Miyazaki films come to mind as I sampled the English soundtrack on SPIRITED AWAY DVD and found it awful. Though I don't understand Japanese I find the cadence and rhythm beautiful. I couldn't imagine Toshiro Mifune dubbed in any other language as I'd know his grunt anywhere!

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by octagon

Now there's a film that could use an English language dub

Yes please

Reminds of a quote from Snatch:

Bullet Tooth Tony: A bookie's got blagged last night.
Avi: Blagged? Tony, speak English. I thought this country spawned the f***ing language, and so far nobody seems to speak it.

I thought London was great when I visited a few years back. It is truly a different language when it comes to the British slang.

[comicgeek]

I just bought my first Criterion! I got Dazed and Confused, I am really excited to watch it.

[tisdivine]

All That Jazz & Vengeance Is Mine just came in the mail today. Seen All That Jazz quite a few times but Vengeance was a blind buy. Was so excited about watching it I made the mistake of popping it in at 1:15am and got so into the story didnt realize its now 3:50am and I have to be up for work in 3 hrs lol. Today is going to blow but it was worth the headaches & falling asleep all day.

I would 110% without a doubt recommend this blu to ANYONE. Its a little light on supplements but again don't care its still worth every penny.

[The Bronx Bull]

Originally Posted by Joeker

Would like some opinions before I place an order. Should I get Traffic or Dazed & Confused? I know they are completely different movies, just want to know which one is the better Criterion.

Both are fantastic films, but Dazed & Confused is probably the better "Criterion." By that, I mean everything from A-Z: the packaging is a cleverly designed Digibook with cutouts for the characters faces, the included pamphlet inside is large enough to have a spine (not to mention it's a great read), a Dazed and Confused poster comes with the film, and on top of that, the disc is superb as well. I also would think that D&C is the film with more "rewatchability" than Traffic.

My favorite Criterions:

Hara-Kiri
High and Low
Dazed and Confused
Seven Samurai
The Thin Red Line

[blkhrt]

Originally Posted by comicgeek

I just bought my first Criterion! I got Dazed and Confused, I am really excited to watch it.

Congratulations! That is one of my favorites.

[exolstice]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Okay, I'll add one:

7. White sub-titles on white backgrounds. You don't see this so much today (yellow subtitles seem to be the default) but 10-15 years ago almost all sub-titles were white. Do you know how many Bergman films have snow in them? I still see it sometimes with older films that are broadcast via Internet channels, but thankfully it's rare.

8. Dimensionalizing (i.e. adding shitty pop-up storybook effects to movies, more commonly know as 3D).

[SilentDawn]

Originally Posted by comicgeek

I just bought my first Criterion! I got Dazed and Confused, I am really excited to watch it.

Awesome, I bought that recently as well. It's one of my favorite Linklater films, and It's also one of the best Criterion packages.

Enjoy!