The Criterion Collection

[KillaCam]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

https://www.criterion.com/films/2753...e-of-gentlemen

DVD only.

Maybe I'll rent it and wait out a BD release. That is unless I spot the DVD this evening while I'm at B&N.

[mrjohnnyb]

My favorite neo-noirs are:

Chinatown
The Conversation
Taxi Driver
Fargo
and
L.A. Confidential

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

I think a lot of actors want to allow the role to speak for itself. They are contractually obligated to go on these big tours, and give interview after interview saying the same things over and over. I just saw one the other day where Jennifer Lawrence looked like she was half-dead; it simply gets very tiring.

But also we live in such a weird time. If you're a famous actor and you reach for your glass at a restaurant and accidentally knock it over, within a half-hour social media has turned it into an "event" where you were so drunk you had to be carried out of the restaurant. Everything that happens in your personal life is on Page 6. And on and on.

To be honest, if I were an actor -- especially a well-known one -- I wouldn't answer anything that was even remotely personal. I'd come off as a complete *******, and the public would probably dislike me, and god knows what people would say on Twitter, Reddit, Tumblr ... but I wouldn't care.

OK, anyways ...

Yeah that is one thing I was thinking about, the times are so different now with the internet, being a big star is probably not the same as it used to be.

Also these days shows seem to be always the same, so I could understand how they would ask the same things over and over, that is why it is still refreshing to see some of the old interviews in supplements where the format is so different like the one from Emmanuelle Riva on Hiroshima mon Amour or the one with Jeanne Moreau from Jules and Jim, they don't need to be talking about their personal lifes, but you still get an insight on their way of thinking and seeing life from a perspective outside their character role.

For directors is probably different since I don't think interviews with them generate the same interest for mainstream audiences.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

My favorite neo-noirs are:

Chinatown
The Conversation
Taxi Driver
Fargo
and
L.A. Confidential

Solid list!

Some of my favorite neo-noir films are...

Le Samouraï
Le Cercle Rouge
Chinatown
Body Heat
To Live and Die in L.A.
Point Blank (1967)
Sharky's Machine
Heat
Insomnia (1997)
Thief
Blade Runner
Blood Simple
Tightrope
No Country for Old Men
Cold in July
The Long Goodbye (1973)
The Counselor

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

It's worth noting that most of the classic-era film noir movies were retroactively categorized as "film noir", because, although that term was coined by a French critic in 1946, it was not widely used on these shores until the 1970s. Many of these films were simply referred to as "melodramas" before then. There really was not a genre checklist, per se, during the classic film noir era (1940s and 1950s).

I'm fascinated with film noir. I love how the movies capture a growing cynicism when World War II veterans were returning home to struggle with gainful employment, when the early days of the Cold War were taking effect, and when women were taking more assertive roles. Although there are quite a few British films noir (and Japanese, for that matter) that came about under similar circumstances, I think of "film noir" as a true American cinematic phenomenon.

Out of the Past, The Maltese Falcon, and Double Indemnity are my three favorite films noir, and I love the films noir on the Criterion queue, namely Sweet Smell of Success, The Killers, The Killing, Night and the City, Ace in the Hole, Ministry of Fear, The Night of the Hunter, The Third Man, Ride the Pink Horse, Kiss Me Deadly, etc.

I also, however, love a lot of the "scrappy" films noir that were created on the fly and have been released on Blu-ray by the likes of Olive Films or Kino Lorber. Private Hell 36 and Hell's Half Acre are two examples of films noir that I hold dear to my heart.

You're absolutely right ... or perhaps I should be a little more diplomatic and simply state that your opinion coincides with mine ... although the term has since been (mis)applied to a wider variety of films, and films from other countries, the term "film noir" was originally used to describe a post-war American film that imparted a cynical tone, revolved around crime or criminals, and often featured a femme fatale and a flawed hero who was either hard-bitten or an average schmo who, through a twist of fate, got trapped in a set of dire circumstances beyond his control.

In addition to all the wonderful examples you provided, some of the great classics of the genre include Murder, My Sweet, The Woman in the Window, Fallen Angel, Scarlet Street, The Dark Corner, The Strange Love of Martha Ivers, Nightmare Alley, Kiss of Death, The Street With No Name, Criss Cross, The Set-Up, They Live by Night, Thelma Jordon, Where the Sidewalk Ends and so many more. The genre really flourished between 1944 and about 1953 and the advent of CinemaScope, after television had begun to dominate American entertainment, when the studios responded by turning to widescreen Technicolor spectacles to draw audiences back into the theatres.

A final thought, this one about those "scrappy" films you referred to that were made on the fly: I think "film noir" was the ideal genre for low budget "B" films because the oppressive darkness that characterized so many of them reduced the need for expensive sets, costumes, etc. Look at closely at Ulmer's Detour: shadows envelope the screen in so many shots. We see Tom Neal's girlfriend singing under a spotlight with a few band members present, but (unless my memory is failing, which is always a possibility) we never see the club itself or the patrons or the staff, etc. All that is simply implied ... call it the "Val Lewton School of Filmmaking". Many of these lower budget films are really worthwhile: Deadline at Dawn, Railroaded!, Behind Locked Doors and (my choice for the best American film of 1949) the deliriously twisted Gun Crazy.

[kuro_sawa]

The Long Goodbye & Youth of the Beast are two of my favourite neo noir flicks.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

Yeah that is one thing I was thinking about, the times are so different now with the internet, being a big star is probably not the same as it used to be.

Not only that, but something as simple as going the freakin' beach can become a massive "event." I remember when Selena Gomez went to the beach, I think in LA, with her friends. She wore, not surprisingly, a bikini. Within something like minutes, the Social Media was going on and on about how "fat" she was. SELENA GOMEZ! Come on people. Jeez, get a life.

"OMG, what a heifer!"

I mean, she's not fat. But even if she were overweight, is it something you would feel that you should say freely about someone?! All the girl wanted to do was enjoy a day at the beach with her friends. And it turns into some multi-week inspection as to whether or not she's "fat."

Who the hell wants to go through that?!

Also these days shows seem to be always the same, so I could understand how they would ask the same things over and over, that is why it is still refreshing to see some of the old interviews in supplements where the format is so different like the one from Emmanuelle Riva on Hiroshima mon Amour or the one with Jeanne Moreau from Jules and Jim, they don't need to be talking about their personal lifes, but you still get an insight on their way of thinking and seeing life from a perspective outside their character role.

For directors is probably different since I don't think interviews with them doesn't generate the same interest for mainstream audiences.

Yeah, I think the sameness comes from being coached by agents. There are a few who are very different, like Jennifer Lawrence. You NEVER know what she's going to say!

But I agree with you.

[shadedpain4]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

a really good noir that went off the rails as a result of an overly complicated plot is Force of Evil.

I'll try to remember some of these 'under the radar' titles you guys are mentioning, but I still have to catch up on some Criterion stuff.

last year and the year prior, I used Criterion for nearly all of my film exploration and this past year I veered outside a little bit and explored what my mind and heart told me I'd probably enjoy.

with that said... Rome, Open City... wow! got the BFI box set for $31 on Black Friday. not regretting that!

That BFI set is currently under $30 shipped to the states right now from Zavvi. Good deal if you're region free and don't want to keep waiting for a Criterion upgrade.

[kuro_sawa]

Originally Posted by jmclick

A final thought, this one about those "scrappy" films you referred to that were made on the fly: I think "film noir" was the ideal genre for low budget "B" films because the oppressive darkness that characterized so many of them reduced the need for expensive sets, costumes, etc. Look at closely at Ulmer's Detour: shadows envelope the screen in so many shots. We see Tom Neal's girlfriend singing under a spotlight with a few band members present, but (unless my memory is failing, which is always a possibility) we never see the club itself or the patrons or the staff, etc. All that is simply implied ... call it the "Val Lewton School of Filmmaking". Many of these lower budget films are really worthwhile: Deadline at Dawn, Railroaded!, Behind Locked Doors and (my choice for the best American film of 1949) the deliriously twisted Gun Crazy.

I agree with you, and think as a genre it almost transcends the b-movie. Cry Danger is one of my top 10-15 of any noir.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Not only that, but something as simple as going the freakin' beach can become a massive "event." I remember when Selena Gomez went to the beach, I think in LA, with her friends. She wore, not surprisingly, a bikini. Within something like minutes, the Social Media was going on and on about how "fat" she was. SELENA GOMEZ! Come on people. Jeez, get a life.

"OMG, what a heifer!"

I mean, she's not fat. But even if she were overweight, is it something you would feel that you should say freely about someone?! All the girl wanted to do was enjoy a day at the beach with her friends. And it turns into some multi-week inspection as to whether or not she's "fat."

Who the hell wants to go through that?!

poor Selena... and to think - she just wanted to look good for you.

wait for it...

[Show spoiler]mm hmm

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

That BFI set is currently under $30 shipped to the states right now from Zavvi. Good deal if you're region free and don't want to keep waiting for a Criterion upgrade.

it was the first time I bought anything from Zavvi. I was on the fence about it initially because I was afraid that the box would arrive in poor condition. the spine shows that the box might have been crushed a bit, but the corners are all crisp. overall, I thought that the condition was acceptable considering it came overseas.

I'll have to check them out again some time. It seems like they might have better deals than amazon UK.

the set got good reviews. I probably agree w/ Pro-B's PQ assessment for Rome, Open City.. in the 3.75 star range. there were things I noticed, but it didn't ruin anything for me.

Rome, Open City is one of those films with which you are completely engaged from the first scene onward. great film!

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

poor Selena... and to think - she just wanted to look good for you.

wait for it...

[Show spoiler]mm hmm

OK, I won't deny that I am a big Selena fan.

But that seems so incredibly cold. There are people, both male and female, that I might find attractive or not. I'm a straight guy, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand that someone like George Clooney is a damned handsome guy.

Would I ever feel that I should say someone is "fat" or "looks anorexic" or whatever other negative things I could bring up? No. I try to live by the mantra, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." I remember my grandmother saying that to me repeatedly. I remember watching an interview with the ultimate supermodel Gisele recently. She talked about how much of a better world it would be if people just took the time to smile, say "Hello," and be nice to each other. It's not that complicated.

Most of the films I love are dark and harsh. But that doesn't mean that is the way I feel people should treat each other on a daily basis. Dogville is one my favorite films ever. And it's about as ugly, in terms of the way people treat each other, as any film ever made. Breaking the Waves. Another one. Just because art is amazing in this doesn't mean that the way we all treat each other should ever represent that.

One of my favorite film characters from this millennium is Robert Ford (Casey Affleck) from The Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford. Is there anything really redeemable about him? No. Is he a great character? Yes.

But treating characters one way, and treating *real* people by simply being mean? That's just wrong.

[Arch Stanton]

L.A. Confidential is absolutely terrible IMO. I'm shocked it's so well received.

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

OK, I won't deny that I am a big Selena fan.

But that seems so incredibly cold. There are people, both male and female, that I might find attractive or not. I'm a straight guy, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand that someone like George Clooney is a damned handsome guy.

Would I ever feel that I should say someone is "fat" or "looks anorexic" or whatever other negative things I could bring up? No. I try to live by the mantra, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." I remember my grandmother saying that to me repeatedly. I remember watching an interview with the ultimate supermodel Gisele recently. She talked about how much of a better world it would be if people just took the time to smile, say "Hello," and be nice to each other. It's not that complicated.

Most of the films I love are dark and harsh. But that doesn't mean that is the way I feel people should treat each other on a daily basis. Dogville is one my favorite films ever. And it's about as ugly, in terms of the way people treat each other, as any film ever made. Breaking the Waves. Another one. Just because art is amazing in this doesn't mean that the way we all treat each other should ever represent that.

One of my favorite film characters from this millennium is Robert Ford (Casey Affleck) from The Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford. Is there anything really redeemable about him? No. Is he a great character? Yes.

But treating characters one way, and treating *real* people by simply being mean? That's just wrong.

Totally agree with you, and I suspect why Dogville is one of your favorites

[Show spoiler]Since everyone of those bastards gets what they deserve in the end

, it's one of my favorites too.

And while behaving like that would be ideal, I don't think it is something achievable, I don't get why people have to behave like that but the internet seems to have open a door for certain people to say whatever they want publicly without repercussions.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Not only that, but something as simple as going the freakin' beach can become a massive "event." I remember when Selena Gomez went to the beach, I think in LA, with her friends. She wore, not surprisingly, a bikini. Within something like minutes, the Social Media was going on and on about how "fat" she was. SELENA GOMEZ! Come on people. Jeez, get a life.

"OMG, what a heifer!"

I mean, she's not fat. But even if she were overweight, is it something you would feel that you should say freely about someone?! All the girl wanted to do was enjoy a day at the beach with her friends. And it turns into some multi-week inspection as to whether or not she's "fat."

Who the hell wants to go through that?!

One of my favorite things about Steven Spielberg's Jaws is that the people on the beach actually look like real people. Sunburned tourists, pudgy kids, goofy-dressed people, elderly people, etc.

If Jaws were to be remade today, then all of the people on the beach would be perfect 10 hardbodies with ripped six-pack abs, fake breasts, tan legs in bikinis, etc.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

If Jaws were to be remade today, then all of the people on the beach would be perfect 10 hardbodies with ripped six-pack abs, fake breasts, tan legs in bikinis, etc.

And that would just be the guys.

:rimshot:

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

Totally agree with you, and I suspect why Dogville is one of your favorites

[Show spoiler]Since everyone of those bastards gets what they deserve in the end

, it's one of my favorites too.

Absolutely. I'll never forget that first experience watching that film. And

[Show spoiler]yes, everyone gets the hell they deserve.

Kidman is miraculous in that film, btw.

And while behaving like that would be ideal, I don't think it is something achievable, I don't get why people have to behave like that but the internet seems to have open a door for certain people to say whatever they want publicly without repercussions.

I know this sounds silly, but that Gisele interview really has had an effect on me. I try to be as nice as I can be to everyone I interact with. I figured if some woman who makes a gazillion dollars a year, and is semi-retired, can talk on and on about being kind and nice, then I should start to consider this sort of thing.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

One of my favorite things about Steven Spielberg's Jaws is that the people on the beach actually look like real people. Sunburned tourists, pudgy kids, goofy-dressed people, elderly people, etc.

If Jaws were to be remade today, then all of the people on the beach would be perfect 10 hardbodies with ripped six-pack abs, fake breasts, tan legs in bikinis, etc.

But if you go to a beach today ... Heh.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by jmclick

A final thought, this one about those "scrappy" films you referred to that were made on the fly: I think "film noir" was the ideal genre for low budget "B" films because the oppressive darkness that characterized so many of them reduced the need for expensive sets, costumes, etc. Look at closely at Ulmer's Detour: shadows envelope the screen in so many shots. We see Tom Neal's girlfriend singing under a spotlight with a few band members present, but (unless my memory is failing, which is always a possibility) we never see the club itself or the patrons or the staff, etc. All that is simply implied ... call it the "Val Lewton School of Filmmaking". Many of these lower budget films are really worthwhile: Deadline at Dawn, Railroaded!, Behind Locked Doors and (my choice for the best American film of 1949) the deliriously twisted Gun Crazy.

Thanks for mentioning Deadline at Dawn. It, along with Crossfire and The Window, was my first introduction to Noir even before I knew there was such a thing. They were just late night films (part of the C&C Television package that was mostly RKO titles with revised title and end credits) that just had a different look to them.

[RalphoR]

After reading these comments let's hope they never remake Jaws