The Criterion Collection

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Rich Pure Doom

I own this film but have been holding off on watching it. How bad is the animal cruelty?

There are several graphic kangaroo hunting scenes, and a rabbit is killed.

Wake in Fright, however, is a rather magnificent film in its own offbeat way, and the hunting sequences contribute to the film's menacing vibe.

[Scottie]

Has nobody seen Dry Summer? They actually killed a real dog for the film.

Despicable.

[llj]

Originally Posted by kylec123

I honestly don't remember thinking Wake In Fright went too far on animal cruelty. The only thing I can remember that happens is them shooting some kangaroo's.

Most films have simulated animal cruelty (ie faked for the film, no real animals actually harmed). Wake in Fright's animal cruelty was real. The filmmakers filmed a real kangaroo hunt (though they themselves did not participate in it) and used it in the film. So, these are animals actually being killed before your eyes.

It is a good movie. But this is warning for those who find that watching real animals being really killed in a film churns your stomach.

The other film that sticks out in my mind is one of Disney's old "documentaries" on lemmings (1952's "White Wilderness") where the filmmakers deliberately forced them off a cliff to help propogate the age old myth of their suicidal behaviour. This film won the Oscar for Best Documentary Feature for that year. I consider this film a work of fiction instead of an actual documentary, which is why I am putting it here as an example.

I do not find fictional animal cruelty particularly notable in this discussion because there are simply so many movies that feature fictional scenes of this, particularly in various comedies (dog/cat thrown out the window gags, etc,.)

[Polaroid]

Sweet Movie - hello, worse than Salo :P. Awaiting bluray upgrade

[llj]

Originally Posted by jw007

pedromvu, jmclick, Al_The_Strange,

Good comments, thanks. Did you guys or anyone else ever come across this great link showcasing some of the banned films in the Criterion Collection?

https://www.criterion.com/lists/1703...orbidden-films

No doubt, I would say its a bit of a stretch to include films such as Hunger, Night and Fog, Island of Lost Souls and Gimme Shelter along with the other titles I mentioned. Though I've never seen Night and Fog (as I realize its a historical documentary on the Holocaust), the other 3 films are either great morality tales or biopics/docs.

Pushing one's personal envelope is always bold, and I continue to do this despite sometimes being ashamed of myself for that. Being aware of grotesque images in film probably is good for educational purposes, but personally if I ever were to watch Salò, I'll watch it once and that's it.

To add to that list, I think Vengeance is Mine was banned for many years in some provinces up here in Canada during the 80s, I believe.

I would say I'm pretty open to most envelope pushing and gratuitousness, but I do have a threshold. Someone mentioned the Korean movie I Saw the Devil; that's an example of a film that's a little too much for me. A lot of it really depends on portrayal rather than content though. I can handle a lot of envelope pushing content but sometimes the way it is filmed or portrayed has a lot to do with whether I can take it or not. A splatter film featuring ridiculously over-the-top gore and bright-red tacky blood is much more palatable to me than a film featuring the same things but portrayed hyper-realistically.

[darkness2918]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Has nobody seen Dry Summer? They actually killed a real dog for the film.

Despicable.

I think I saw that a few years back once. Since I watch a lot of horror ( extreme horror as well) I'm a bit desensitized to films like Salo for example. I watched films like A Serbian Film & others it without flinching it batting an eye. For some odd reason the only film that creeps me out & gets under my skin is The Exorcist.

[deepseababy]

The cat killings in Gummo weren't real, were they?

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Has nobody seen Dry Summer? They actually killed a real dog for the film.

Despicable.

Completely unrelated to this quote iScottie, but I DID watch a couple of the films I bought from you and I've already re-sold Something Wild unfortunately. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't terribly great either. Not worth owning anyway. The other one I watched was The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie and I LOVED this one. An art film that doesn't take itself too seriously and has some fun.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Has nobody seen Dry Summer? They actually killed a real dog for the film.

Despicable.

I can add that to the list of films I'll never, ever see.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I would say that Jean Renoir's The Rules of the Game has more animal cruelty than any other title in the Collection.

There are a number of films that I have held off viewing due to possible animal cruelty. I find the issue so distressing that I try to avoid even reading a synopsis of what might occur in any given title: The aforementioned The Rules of the Game, and also Au hasard Balthazar spring to mind, despite their many plaudits. But there are others.

Ironically, one of the very best documentaries I've ever seen is Blue Water, White Death, which includes a very graphic scene of commercial whaling - an activity that is just about the most repugnant example of man's inhumanity towards animals.

[demonknight]

Been doing a binge of past Best Picture nominees that I haven't seen as of late. It is my at-home theme for February. I've begun by watching some Criterion titles...
First up was The Graduate (Spine #800). Phenomenal picture. Allowed me to see Dustin Hoffman in a new light after only seeing him in things that I haven't liked (Hook, Fockers, Rain Man). The ending still has me thinking.
Then, Traffic (Spine #151). I enjoyed parts of it, but ultimately, it was a tad too long for me. Loved Benecio Del Toro, Don Cheadle and Luiz Guizman's performances.
Up next was The Grand Budapest Hotel (Spine #TBD). Wonderful. I tend to really enjoy Wes Anderson to begin with, but I'd rank this as either second or third in my rankings following Life Aquatic and on par with Rushmore.
Following this was Tootsie (Spine #738), which, again, I particularly enjoyed. Enjoyable film.
And, now, I have just finished All That Jazz (Spine #724). This one is harder to put my feelings on. Roy Scheider gives a superb performance, and the direction was A-plus, but something just didn't sit right. It was a little long in the tooth. I liked the contrast of drug addiction and fear of death with stylish Broadway-style musical numbers, but it just seemed to not completely add up. It might be a situation where I'll love it after a second watch, but it won't be for a little while.

Also on this month's roster are Benjamin Button and On the Waterfront.

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by kylec123

I honestly don't remember thinking Wake In Fright went too far on animal cruelty. The only thing I can remember that happens is them shooting some kangaroo's.

only that? I will put in spoilers my description of what I remember of animal cruelty on that film:

[Show spoiler]they went in the night, put lights in front of them, the kangaroos don't know what the hell but are curious, then they are shot, not sure how much exactly is on camera, but I though it was hard to watch, then there is a brutal fight hand to hand with a kangaroo.

But as llj says, it wasn't done for the movie, the hunt would probably take place anyway, although I am not entirely sure how they did the fight scene.

Great movie though, just not planning on revisiting anytime soon.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by jmclick

You really owe it to yourself to see Night and Fog. Everyone does. In 1975, French critics were surveyed and asked to name the greatest French films of all time. A total of 45 films were named. Night and Fog was ranked 19th. I think what distinguishes it from other documentaries about the Holocaust is that it was filmed just 10 years after the end of World War II, while the land ... and people's emotions and memories ... were still raw. Certainly, the protests it engendered were due to Renais' dogged dedication to the truth regardless of people's sensibilities: the Germans were upset because they didn't want the whole country and its people linked to Nazism; the French wanted to bury any evidence of wartime collaboration between their government and Hitler. Today, those concerns don't have the impact or immediacy that they once did, and the film can be regarded and evaluated for what it actually is: a powerful and disturbing reminder of one of the most heinous periods in modern human history.

I will watch this film for sure. I had a grandparent who was a Holocaust survivor (he was actually imprisoned in labor camps in Siberia, so it was on Stalin's side), and I'll bet he saw or knew about this movie when he was still alive (he died in 1999). I think for a film this important, it should be a blu-ray upgrade, no questions asked.

[oildude]

Just curious if any folks here are hunters? Fishermen?

These days I don't hunt as much as I used to, but I grew up deer and bird hunting. And fishing. I still go fishing, and am trying to learn the mysteries of trout and flies.

I was taught to eat what I killed or caught, or - in the case of fish - release what was under the legal limit. I have never been a trophy hunter, but I don't begrudge those who hunt big game legally. Just not for me. Hunters and fishermen are the most conservation minded individuals you will ever meet.

Hunting scenes in movies don't bother me, even if the kills are real as in documentaries, as long as it is done responsibly and the game ends up on the plate. (OK, maybe Bambi - lol. My mom told me I cried the first time I saw Bambi, but even a five year old knows deer and rabbits can't talk, so I obviously got over it. I am sure all future hunters have to make that right of passage in their childhoods.)

Though I rarely hunt nowadays - and most often spend my time outdoors in hiking, climbing, and photography - I love to shoot and will visit the gun range a couple of times a month. I am thinking of taking up sporting clays. Several men and a few women I work with enjoy this, as do my brother and uncle.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Reddington

There are a number of films that I have held off viewing due to possible animal cruelty. I find the issue so distressing that I try to avoid even reading a synopsis of what might occur in any given title: The aforementioned The Rules of the Game, and also Au hasard Balthazar spring to mind, despite their many plaudits. But there are others.

Ironically, one of the very best documentaries I've ever seen is Blue Water, White Death, which includes a very graphic scene of commercial whaling - an activity that is just about the most repugnant example of man's inhumanity towards animals.

Also you can add Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev to the list of films where animals were mistreated/abused and even killed (including a horse).

[SlickDamian]

The first page of this thread contains the links to reviews from Dr. Svet of all of the criterion discs. Although it seems like many of the recent ones are missi g. Can someone (Dr. Svet or a mod who is in the know) add the missing reviews to make it complete?

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by oildude

Just curious if any folks here are hunters? Fishermen?

I hunted and fished a lot during my childhood and early teen years, and, as a typical guy in the rural south, I grew up around the lifestyle. I was pretty much surrounded by guns, deer antlers, and fishing rods back then, and I loved visiting my relatives in Alabama, because they knew where the best fishing spots were.

I lost interest in both during my later teen years, not because of ethical reasons, but simply because I took to other hobbies. I'm outdoors quite a lot these days, but mostly due to running. My new home is located just over a mile from Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park, and I run up and down that mountain a few days each week. Hunting is not allowed there, simply because it's a national park, so it's pretty common to see deer from just a few feet away. I do not even own a gun or a fishing rod nowadays, because there are just too many other things that I'd rather spend money on, but I'm occasionally tempted to take up fly fishing and try my hand at that particular art (Yes, I consider fly fishing to be an art.).

I work in a north Georgia office, and most of my male co-workers are avid hunters and fishermen. It's fun to listen to their discussions, because I'm reminded of my younger years when I was preoccupied with those interests.

For all of the above reasons, I'm generally okay with real or fake depictions of hunting in movies, and I don't usually get out of sorts with animal death scenes. Except for the death of Old Yeller. Man, that sucked.



Funnily enough, the subject of hunting segues into my mention of a movie that I watched last night, and one that might interest Criterion fans...



Ursula Andress, who starred in the James Bond movie, Dr. No, as the bikini girl who emerges from the ocean onto the beach, plays a contestant in the Big Hunt, a popular game in the near future where people ("hunters") are allowed to hunt down and kill human prey ("victims") in the middle of crowded cities, with the "victims" having plenty of opportunity to turn the tables on the "hunters" as well. Each contestant must go through five rounds as a hunter and five rounds as a victim, and contestants who stay alive through all 10 total rounds are awarded the jackpot of lifelong wealth. This time, Andress's 10th victim, played by Marcello Mastroianni (La Dolce Vita, 8½) proves to be a tougher prey than expected, especially when physical attraction comes into the equation. This Italian movie is picturesque, sexy, and fast-paced.

The 10th Victim is famous today for a scene where Ursula Andress kills one of her victims by way of a bra that shoots bullets. The "bra gun" sequence was spoofed in the Austin Powers movies.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I hunted and fished a lot during my childhood and early teen years, and, as a typical guy in the rural south, I grew up around the lifestyle. I was pretty much surrounded by guns, deer antlers, and fishing rods back then, and I loved visiting my relatives in Alabama, because they knew where the best fishing spots were.

I lost interest in both during my later teen years, not because of ethical reasons, but simply because I took to other hobbies.

Same with me. Went on to other hobbies. I have only hunted three times in the past five years, all for ground birds in New Mexico. I haven't deer or elk hunted since 2005. I still fish, but even that has slackened lately with work and other things. Not good, since I am trying to learn to fly fish and haven't been diligent about it. Part of this is because I now live on the Texas Gulf Coast instead of the Mountain West (where I spent 10 years), so the trout or typical fly-friendly streams are about 150 miles away in the Hill Country. I know you can fly fish anywhere, even the ocean, but I haven't committed to the alternative locations and styles as diligently as I could have. Still, I am slowly getting there, just too many other hobbies and work to make it a regular event, which is what has to happen if you want to get good at anything.

I'm outdoors quite a lot these days, but mostly due to running. My new home is located just over a mile from Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park, and I run up and down that mountain a few days each week. Hunting is not allowed there, simply because it's a national park, so it's pretty common to see deer from just a few feet away. I do not even own a gun or a fishing rod nowadays, because there are just too many other things that I'd rather spend money on, but I'm occasionally tempted to take up fly fishing and try my hand at that particular art (Yes, I consider fly fishing to be an art.)

I am a Civil War buff and envy you being so close to Kennesaw Mountain battlefield. Last time I was in north Georgia was 2011, specifically to visit Chickamauga battlefield with a friend who lives in northern Alabama.

Also, I have The 10th Victim but haven't watched it yet. Will do that soon.

And to steer things into Criterion territory, last night I watched Time Bandits for the first time. What a trip! Loved the Monty Python feel of it. A fun film that will make you laugh if you are into absurd humor in the style of the Pythons. Not my favorite Gilliam film, but a keeper for sure.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by oildude

I am a Civil War buff and envy you being so close to Kennesaw Mountain battlefield. Last time I was in north Georgia was 2011, specifically to visit Chickamauga battlefield with a friend who lives in northern Alabama.

Chickamauga Battlefield is pretty amazing. I ran the Chickamauga Battlefield Marathon which circles the main road on the inside of the park, in 2009 and 2010. Each year, they theme their race medals around a different state monument in the park. Here are mine...

[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by Reddington

There are a number of films that I have held off viewing due to possible animal cruelty. I find the issue so distressing that I try to avoid even reading a synopsis of what might occur in any given title: The aforementioned The Rules of the Game, and also Au hasard Balthazar spring to mind, despite their many plaudits. But there are others.

I'm really soft when it comes to animal cruelty on-screen, but have never had a problem with either RULES or BALTHAZAR. Godard's Weekend is probably the worst film I've seen in the collection for that sort of thing. As a dog lover White Dog is a tough watch too. I wouldn't let it out you off of watching a film as downright miraculous as RULES tho.