The Criterion Collection

[joie]

Ladies & Gentlemen: The theatrical release poster for "Certified Copy:"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certified_Copy_(film)#
Looks like Criterion got it more wrong than AE!

edit: By the way, I don't think this movie is so much a movie of ideas as some seem to think. What about Binoche's character being an antiques dealer and Italy being a center for the manufacture of fake antiques? Wouldn't the idea that copies are "certified" be comforting to someone selling fake antiques? Now, I don't know whether what she sells is fake, but it is a possibility. Of course, if they're fake she may not know they're fake. ...

In Plato's "Republic," Socrates would ban poets because they trade in copies (of ideas). I don't know that this movie is an effective rebuttal.

[AronofskyFan]

So I finally ordered my birthday gift to myself and had a little more cash to play with then I thought, so I got both Ikiru and Dressed to Kill, since it was the last day of the Amazon sale I wanted a third criterion. I took a complete flyer and bought L'avventura as it's reputation is one of greatness and the premise actually sounded really interesting. Any thoughts on L'avventura or the other two? They are preparing for shipment and I am stoked about all three

[joie]

Originally Posted by AronofskyFan

So I finally ordered my birthday gift to myself and had a little more cash to play with then I thought, so I got both Ikiru and Dressed to Kill, since it was the last day of the Amazon sale I wanted a third criterion. I took a complete flyer and bought L'avventura as it's reputation is one of greatness and the premise actually sounded really interesting. Any thoughts on L'avventura or the other two? They are preparing for shipment and I am stoked about all three

L'avventura is a good choice ( so are the others). The audience at Cannes either booed or walked out ( maybe both) when l'avventura screened. Why?

[AronofskyFan]

Originally Posted by joie

L'avventura is a good choice ( so are the others). The audience at Cannes either booed or walked out ( maybe both) when l'avventura screened. Why?

Well I have seen zero Antonioni films, so I have absolutely no idea what to expect with it. I have seen some De Palma films and loved a few them, so I read about Dressed to Kill, watch trailers and know it is a pretty safe blind buy for me. Same with Kurosawa and Ikiru. I am going in completely blind with L'avventura, excited but no idea what I am getting into

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by joie

Ladies & Gentlemen: The theatrical release poster for "Certified Copy:"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certified_Copy_(film)#
Looks like Criterion got it more wrong than AE!

edit: By the way, I don't think this movie is so much a movie of ideas as some seem to think. What about Binoche's character being an antiques dealer and Italy being a center for the manufacture of fake antiques? Wouldn't the idea that copies are "certified" be comforting to someone selling fake antiques? Now, I don't know whether what she sells is fake, but it is a possibility. Of course, if they're fake she may not know they're fake. ...

In Plato's "Republic," Socrates would ban poets because they trade in copies (of ideas). I don't know that this movie is an effective rebuttal.

The CC cover is using the novel from the movie as its template, not the film poster, so it got nothing "more wrong". It looks way nicer than the flamboyant mess that is the AE cover.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by AronofskyFan

Any thoughts on L'avventura

I wouldn't go blind buy with this, unless you're into this kind of films..

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by joie

Ladies & Gentlemen: The theatrical release poster for "Certified Copy:"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certified_Copy_(film)#
Looks like Criterion got it more wrong than AE!

Just visually the original poster is the better of the 3 for me, the more Binoche in it the better

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by AronofskyFan

Well I have seen zero Antonioni films, so I have absolutely no idea what to expect with it. I have seen some De Palma films and loved a few them, so I read about Dressed to Kill, watch trailers and know it is a pretty safe blind buy for me. Same with Kurosawa and Ikiru. I am going in completely blind with L'avventura, excited but no idea what I am getting into

Can't go wrong with L'avventura.

[812crew]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Can't go wrong with L'avventura.

Agreed. Saw it for the first time 6 months ago and have watched it twice since. Great movie and great blu-ray.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by joie

Ladies & Gentlemen: The theatrical release poster for "Certified Copy:"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certified_Copy_(film)#
Looks like Criterion got it more wrong than AE!

edit: By the way, I don't think this movie is so much a movie of ideas as some seem to think. What about Binoche's character being an antiques dealer and Italy being a center for the manufacture of fake antiques? Wouldn't the idea that copies are "certified" be comforting to someone selling fake antiques? Now, I don't know whether what she sells is fake, but it is a possibility. Of course, if they're fake she may not know they're fake. ...

In Plato's "Republic," Socrates would ban poets because they trade in copies (of ideas). I don't know that this movie is an effective rebuttal.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Kiarostami chose the image for the poster. I'm pretty sure that would have been the studio and production company, no? And their interests would be the same as a'typical' home video distributor - to sell tickets/Blu-rays.

Not to mention the fact that while Certified Copy is a sunny and picturesque film, the drab gray stone color is more representative of the film's subject matter and themes than all that color is. I can't even imagine why they went with that if for no other reason than to attempt to move units by selling it as something it is not.

[AronofskyFan]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

I wouldn't go blind buy with this, unless you're into this kind of films..

Well, for the most part I am into everything. Sounds like it may be a bit slowly paced but I don't mind slow pacing at all. We will see when it gets here

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Can't go wrong with L'avventura.

That's what I like to hear!

Originally Posted by 812crew

Agreed. Saw it for the first time 6 months ago and have watched it twice since. Great movie and great blu-ray.

The premise and extremely high praise of the bluray sold me, on top of the high praise the movie regularly gets. I think I will be fine

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Can't go wrong with L'avventura.

Have to respectfully disagree here.

I think it's a risky blind buy.

It's one of those films that I appreciate from a historical perspective, but have no desire to watch again.

I find it difficult to connect with Antonioni's style.

...La Notte is the only one I have in my collection.

[ShellOilJunior]

Hitchcock was a big fan of Antonioni. I remember reading that Hitchcock sometimes felt Antonioni's techniques were much more advanced than anything he was doing.

[joie]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The CC cover is using the novel from the movie as its template, not the film poster, so it got nothing "more wrong". It looks way nicer than the flamboyant mess that is the AE cover.

[Show spoiler]

Isn't that a fake novel? And Criterion's cover an altered fake of a fake novel's cover?

[SammyJankis]

Just a head's up for you NY/LA folks: Anna Karina will be at various venues in April/May to celebrate the restoration of some of her films.

It's moments like these where I'm grateful for having family in New York.

[812crew]

Kubrick apparently loved La Notte. Before even knowing that, when I watched La Notte, I remember thinking "right now I feel like I'm watching a Kubrick movie". It was something I couldn't quite put my finger on.

I know Antonioni is polarizing, but I actually find his movies enjoyable to watch. Whereas most people say his movies leave them feeling alienated like the characters, I don't get the same impression. In fact, I feel like there's a character to emotionally invest in (more so with L'avventura -- Monica Vitti, throughout the movie, is trying to stay morally conscious while all these people around her are subconsciously pulling her down to their level). Similarly, in La Notte, the wife is easy to invest in emotionally. You feel her despair at what's happened to their lives, the culmination which leads them to this one specific day and night.

As much as I love Bergman, I like watching Bergman movies and Antonioni movies one after the other. They both explore similar things, but Antonioni does it more under the surface, whereas I feel sometimes Bergman (as much as I love him) gives way to shock value because maybe he felt he couldn't get the emotion any other way (the glass shared scene in "Cries & Whispers" comes to mind....as does the physical abuse scene in "Scenes From a Marriage"). I really do love both those movies, even those scenes, but I think Antonioni was more disciplined. He wasn't going to give in to easy narrative plot points. I feel like he had rules and a structure, and he stuck to them. And I wish more directors had that vision and discipline.

[Knaldskalle]

Originally Posted by joie

Isn't that a fake novel? And Criterion's cover an altered fake of a fake novel's cover?

No, it's actually a certified copy.

[Show spoiler]

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by 812crew

Kubrick apparently loved La Notte. Before even knowing that, when I watched La Notte, I remember thinking "right now I feel like I'm watching a Kubrick movie". It was something I couldn't quite put my finger on.

I know Antonioni is polarizing, but I actually find his movies enjoyable to watch. Whereas most people say his movies leave them feeling alienated like the characters, I don't get the same impression. In fact, I feel like there's a character to emotionally invest in (more so with L'avventura -- Monica Vitti, throughout the movie, is trying to stay morally conscious while all these people around her are subconsciously pulling her down to their level). Similarly, in La Notte, the wife is easy to invest in emotionally. You feel her despair at what's happened to their lives, the culmination which leads them to this one specific day and night.

As much as I love Bergman, I like watching Bergman movies and Antonioni movies one after the other. They both explore similar things, but Antonioni does it more under the surface, whereas I feel sometimes Bergman (as much as I love him) gives way to shock value because maybe he felt he couldn't get the emotion any other way (the glass shared scene in "Cries & Whispers" comes to mind....as does the physical abuse scene in "Scenes From a Marriage"). I really do love both those movies, even those scenes, but I think Antonioni was more disciplined. He wasn't going to give in to easy narrative plot points. I feel like he had rules and a structure, and he stuck to them. And I wish more directors had that vision and discipline.

Bergman thought Antonioni sucked.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Bergman thought Antonioni sucked.

Bergman was a HUGE "fan" of Welles.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Helter145

So, there hasn't been much discussion here in relation to the lack of female-directed films on the collection, which surprises me, as several articles on the subject have been making the rounds since film critic Sophie Mayer analyzed Criterion's entire output and found out that only 21 films out of almost 800 were directed by women, and we need to realize that a lot of those are only available through Criterion's Eclipse banner and through the DVD format, so the number becomes even more meagre when counting only the blu-ray format, some very appealing and historically-important films, like Vera Chytilová's Daisies and Larisa Shepitko's The Ascent, have been denied a blu-ray release, being instead buried under the Eclipse banner, which, sure, is better than nothing, but still problematic, as some articles have mentioned how obscure male-directed films such as Marketa Lazarova have been given the deluxe treatment, and that film is I think as important or as deserving as the also Czech Daisies...

This obviously is not only Criterion's fault, that meagre number of 21 speaks of a much larger issue, one related to the gender-bias of the film industry at large and of the movie-buying public, and sometimes there's not a restoration available or there are licensing issues, which can take years to clear, so the fact that some films like Lucrecia Martel's La Ciénaga have seen the light of day on blu-ray is a small miracle in and of itself, yet there so many films out there still unavailable on any format that it's kind of difficult to feel overtly optimistic....

This is definitely a difficult subject, and while I do think Criterion has been oblivious of some very fine female-directed films, ultimately not to talk about the bigger picture would be a mistake, and still, we as buyers should put our money where our mouth is and consume as much of something we want represented...

Yes, the lack of more female-directed films in the Collection is an issue. But I think some people are (understandably) focused on the specific issue of female-directed films that they don't see that it's just one of a number of instances in which Criterion is lacking. We've had this discussion before. Aside from Japan, there's very little coverage of Asian film. There are virtually no films from South America or Africa. The Middle East has little coverage. And so on. I would venture to guess that the Collection is rather short of African-American filmmakers as well.

The real problem is that Criterion is damned no matter what they do. If they don't release more films by women, people complain that they aren't being diverse enough. If they do take up release slots with more female-directed films, there will be complaints from people wondering why they aren't releasing more Kurosawa or Bergman or Lynch or Cronenberg.