The Criterion Collection

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by shadedpain4

I've always been thankful that I'm not the type (for whatever reason) that notices/cares about those rating logos. That would be irritating if I had to think about them or consider them when making purchases.

Not that they bother me anyway but I was braced for the worst with the U.K. discs and they look absolutely fine (and they're not on the spine). It's pretty great being able to walk in to a store and buy a criterion disc off the shelves too, tho my wallet no doubt begs to differ. The idea of importing the US edition of a title which has a UK counterpart is perverse to me. I've already saved £10 on my US preorders of Only Angels Have Wings and In A Lonely Place, thanks to be UK launch, fingers crossed it lasts for many years.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Really? the English subtitles?
I would assume it's an error or something if it's true.

It's not true, I just checked my disc. The original poster wasn't aware that English subtitles don't feature on the menu, thats all.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

It's not true, I just checked my disc. The original poster wasn't aware that English subtitles don't feature on the menu, thats all.

To be fair, he still appeared to be having trouble bringing them up using his player too. I do think it's a little poor for Criterion to let people rely on their players to turn subs on/off.

[jayembee]

Off topic, but I don't care. Need to commiserate somewhere.

With all of the weeping and wailing about the death of Prince in the past couple of days, another music legend died (today) that's closer to my heart...and ears...and I don't want his passing to go unnoticed.

Lonnie Mack, one of the country/blues/rockabilly greats.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/ar...t-74.html?_r=5

I actually didn't first hear of him until the mid-80s when I picked up a CD of his, Strike Like Lightning, because Stevie Ray Vaughan played on it (and co-produced it). But I was just as captivated by Mack. Sigh.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Off topic, but I don't care. Need to commiserate somewhere.

With all of the weeping and wailing about the death of Prince in the past couple of days, another music legend died (today) that's closer to my heart...and ears...and I don't want his passing to go unnoticed.

Lonnie Mack, one of the country/blues/rockabilly greats.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/ar...t-74.html?_r=5

I actually didn't first hear of him until the mid-80s when I picked up a CD of his, Strike Like Lightning, because Stevie Ray Vaughan played on it (and co-produced it). But I was just as captivated by Mack. Sigh.

Wow, I didn't pick up on Lonnie Mack until about 10 years ago when I started exploring blues music of the 60's. Mack was a brilliant guitarist who crossed many styles. Check out "The Wham of That Memphis Man" for an introduction -- part blues/swamp/surf/rockabilly, all original.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Wow, I didn't pick up on Lonnie Mack until about 10 years ago when I started exploring blues music of the 60's. Mack was a brilliant guitarist who crossed many styles. Check out "The Wham of That Memphis Man" for an introduction -- part blues/swamp/surf/rockabilly, all original.

His instrumental cover of Chuck Berry's "Memphis, Tennessee" on that album was great stuff.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Off topic, but I don't care. Need to commiserate somewhere.

With all of the weeping and wailing about the death of Prince in the past couple of days, another music legend died (today) that's closer to my heart...and ears...and I don't want his passing to go unnoticed.

Lonnie Mack, one of the country/blues/rockabilly greats.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/ar...t-74.html?_r=5

I actually didn't first hear of him until the mid-80s when I picked up a CD of his, Strike Like Lightning, because Stevie Ray Vaughan played on it (and co-produced it). But I was just as captivated by Mack. Sigh.

I wonder which musician pissed off the Grim Reaper because he's taking them with a vengeance this year.

[Rad See]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

i think no genuine cinephile should watch any foreign film dubbed ever!

Tati? Chris Marker?

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by LuckyDragon

Dubbing is great if done right, and I would argue that it preserves the intent of the original film better, since the dialogue was meant to be heard in the audience's native language rather than read with constant glances back and forth between the subtitles and the drama.

Huh?
Who said that?

I wonder, if you were not English speaking you would watch all the great American films dubbed in your native language?
You would allow yourself to disregard completely the acting of great actors and the directors (in an indirect way since they direct the actors)?
Because acting is not only the presence of the actors and what they do with their bodies. It's their voice too.

No offence, but watching a film dubbed so as to be *convenient* for us because we can't read subtitles, is not the original purpose of a film.
Even if the dubbing is "great".
It's still not the original and doesn't convey the original thoughts of both the actors and directors.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by LuckyDragon

Dubbing is great if done right, and I would argue that it preserves the intent of the original film better, since the dialogue was meant to be heard in the audience's native language rather than read with constant glances back and forth between the subtitles and the drama.

Of course, "done right" is so rare that I almost always go with subtitles to avoid bleeding from the ears. Most dubbing sounds as if they grabbed random people off the street and promised them twenty bucks and lunch at Pizza Hut for reading the script into the microphone.

Dubbing is an interesting issue, especially with films which were shot mute (like with Deep Red) and dubbed over in post production. But I will always go for the original soundtrack as released in its native country - even if it's animated and less noticeable - it becomes a very odd mix of cultures otherwise.

[OrchidClub]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

Dubbing is an interesting issue, especially with films which were shot mute (like with Deep Red) and dubbed over in post production. But I will always go for the original soundtrack as released in its native country - even if it's animated and less noticeable - it becomes a very odd mix of cultures otherwise.

I go with the original language that was spoken on the set. In Deep Red, you can tell that most, if not all, of the actors are speaking English, because their lip movements match the English dub. Even though Italian is considered the "original" language, the Italian track is a translation of the dialogue they were actually speaking.

[CriterionBlues]

Originally Posted by OrchidClub

I go with the original language that was spoken on the set. In Deep Red, you can tell that most, if not all, of the actors are speaking English, because their lip movements match the English dub. Even though Italian is considered the "original" language, the Italian track is a translation of the dialogue they were actually speaking.

Just like in Journey to Italy. My first time seeing it was the Italian dub, which was not very good. It is difficult to see Sanders and Bergman with Italian voices. English is the best track to watch the film even if it is an Italian production and many people (aside from the leads) are speaking Italian.

Of course Italian films didn't use direct sound for decades so everything was dubbed, like Deep Red, as you noted. sometimes we don't have a choice. Antonioni's Red Desert has Richard Harris dubbed, which is weird, but worth it because you couldn't watch Vitti in anything other than Italian.

[hoytereden]

I still have a soft spot for those badly dubbed Japanese giant monster, Italian sword and sandal, and K. Gordon Murray Mexican horror films that I grew up watching.

[mrjohnnyb]

When it comes to most films of world cinema, I absolutely prefer subtitles to dubbing. However, when it comes to certain Italian films, like the films of Visconti or Passolini, whichever version that you choose to watch will be at least partially dubbed. For example, in Visconti's The Leopard Burt Lancaster spoke all of his dialogue in English, whereas the rest of the cast did not. When you watch that film you need to make a choice: Do I watch it in Italian and endure the dubbing on the film's star? or Do I watch it in English and endure the dubbing of the supporting cast?

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

When it comes to most films of world cinema, I absolutely prefer subtitles to dubbing. However, when it comes to certain Italian films, like the films of Visconti or Passolini, whichever version that you choose to watch will be at least partially dubbed. For example, in Visconti's The Leopard Burt Lancaster spoke all of his dialogue in English, whereas the rest of the cast did not. When you watch that film you need to make a choice: Do I watch it in Italian and endure the dubbing on the film's star? or Do I watch it in English and endure the dubbing of the supporting cast?

Same thing with La Strada with Quinn and Basehart. I usually watch it with them dubbed but it is distracting because I know what they're supposed to sound like.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

When it comes to most films of world cinema, I absolutely prefer subtitles to dubbing. However, when it comes to certain Italian films, like the films of Visconti or Passolini, whichever version that you choose to watch will be at least partially dubbed. For example, in Visconti's The Leopard Burt Lancaster spoke all of his dialogue in English, whereas the rest of the cast did not. When you watch that film you need to make a choice: Do I watch it in Italian and endure the dubbing on the film's star? or Do I watch it in English and endure the dubbing of the supporting cast?

yes, obviously i was not talking about films which you can't do anything but put up with partial dubbing, whatever version you choose to watch.
i meant all the other films.
And certainly i watch the original language in animation too where lip-syncing is not an issue.

It's become my understanding from various posts in forums, that English speakers aren't very much accustomed to reading subtitles, since well, most people watch Hollywood movies.
I myself grew up watching films with subtitles, so really it's not an issue at all and it's something that goes unnoticed like "breathing" for example.
But it hurts me when i read that people watch eg. the Ghibli anime films in English.
Language is not only just a a means of understanding what someone is saying. Language is culture.

I really think no film should be dubbed but subtitled instead, but I guess it's a useful option for eyesight impaired people that can't read.

[ThisKid]

I normally watch the film in its original language if available, but sometimes it's jolly good fun watching the film in a hilariously bad English dub. The Story of Riki-Oh, anyone?

[Cinematt]

Whilst I like to be a cinema purist and watch films with subtitles I find (particularly as I get older!) that late at night I nod off much easier with a foreign language being spoken. I think there's something about my brain not automatically recognising the sounds that turns them into a sort of music rather than words and it helps me drift off regardless of how much I'm enjoying a film. Because of this I've been watching a lot more dubbed tracks and finding on animation and generally on exploitation is usually doesn't stop me enjoying the film. There are exceptions, as much as Disney tried to get high quality voice actors for the Ghibli films hearing Totoro pronounced as Toe-der-oh! by those saccharine Fanning kids was enough to make me claw my ears off. So whilst you can't win them all I've had far fewer nights waking up at 3am still on the sofa since I quit late night subtitles, it just means I have to keep the real quality films for another time.

[mrjohnnyb]

I have no issue at all with subtitles. In fact, I will turn on the English sub-titles on English-speaking films, even those that I have already seen, because I discover that many times I misheard a word in a line of dialogue when I originally viewed that film.

[ThisKid]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

I have no issue at all with subtitles. In fact, I will turn on the English sub-titles on English-speaking films, even those that I have already seen, because I discover that many times I misheard a word in a line of dialogue when I originally viewed that film.

My friends and I had a funny story with mishearing a line of dialogue once. 2 years or so ago, we had a sleepover at my place for my birthday, and to celebrate, we were having a Doctor Who marathon. We were watching the first Daleks serial, and in one scene, a Dalek said "We have the message now". Sadly, we heard something completely different. We heard "We have the best sex now". I don't think it has anything to do with us being teenagers, but when we heard the line, we burst into laughter onto what we thought we heard. We rewinded the scene and turned on the subtitles, and we learned it was "We have the message now", not that other, um, thing.