I did not plan to weigh in anymore on this dubbing discussion, but last night I just happened to watch a film that appeared to be heavily dubbed...and not particularly well.
John Boorman's Excalibur from 1981.
Some of the dialogue sounds almost cartoonishly bad imo...particularly the lines from the main actor who plays King Arthur. I have no idea why they had to dub the lines of an English actor in an English language movie. Maybe his line readings during shooting were just that bad. But it sounds really awful to my ears and really diminishes the quality of the film.
Not a particularly well written film to begin with.
Yeah I was a bit hesitant after watching the first 20 minutes, I am still not convinced by the digital photography and handheld style, and felt some of the performances were bad (but not the important ones anyway).
But the moment Lisa Joyce comes in the screen everything changes, she gives such an energetic performance that It was a breeze to watch the rest, and ended up feeling it was too short.
Jeff Biehl as Ragnar is particularly stiff, and Andre Gregory was rather underwhelming as his father. It's unfortunate the majority of their screen time is in the first 20 minutes, because it could really turn people off of the film. Then again, they do make Lisa Joyce's performance look that much more impressive
Does anyone else plan on getting Wim Wenders: The Road Trilogy at the end of May? I'm tempted to sign-up for Amazon rewards (VISA) to cancel out the cost with the $80 promo credit. I never carry over monthly credit card balances so it seems like a good deal for me.
I did not plan to weigh in anymore on this dubbing discussion, but last night I just happened to watch a film that appeared to be heavily dubbed...and not particularly well.
John Boorman's Excalibur from 1981.
Some of the dialogue sounds almost cartoonishly bad imo...particularly the lines from the main actor who plays King Arthur. I have no idea why they had to dub the lines of an English actor in an English language movie. Maybe his line readings during shooting were just that bad. But it sounds really awful to my ears and really diminishes the quality of the film.
Not a particularly well written film to begin with.
It should've been titled Arthur The Barbarian.
...starring Arnold Schwarzenegger as King Arthur.
Watched this last night, too. Helen Mirren was quite the babe back then. I agree the dubbed lines were terrible, thinking back on it. A lot of it was pretty over the top. But weren't a good deal of the movies produced in 1980/81?
Does anyone else plan on getting Wim Wenders: The Road Trilogy at the end of May? I'm tempted to sign-up for Amazon rewards (VISA) to cancel out the cost with the $80 promo credit. I never carry over monthly credit card balances so it seems like a good deal for me.
That's got July sale/$8 off coupon written all over it for me.
Watched this last night, too. Helen Mirren was quite the babe back then. I agree the dubbed lines were terrible, thinking back on it. A lot of it was pretty over the top. But weren't a good deal of the movies produced in 1980/81?
When I was stealing cable back in the early 80s (all you needed to do was open the box and put metallic tape over the channels on the dial that you wanted; so you could have HBO, Cinemax, etc. all for free -- shhh! Don't tell anyone! ) Excalibur was on HBO (I think it was) ALL THE TIME. I first saw it in the theater with my dad when I was about 11 or 12. But once it came on cable I used to watch it many times per day.
God I loved that movie.
And yes, Helen was one hell of a babe. Gorgeous, sexy, seductive. Heck, so was Cheri Lunghi.
God, I loved that movie. -- Wait, I already said that.
I have no idea why they had to dub the lines of an English actor in an English language movie. Maybe his line readings during shooting were just that bad.
It's more likely that the studio (or Boorman) wanted line changes after the scenes were already shot.
Does anyone else plan on getting Wim Wenders: The Road Trilogy at the end of May? I'm tempted to sign-up for Amazon rewards (VISA) to cancel out the cost with the $80 promo credit. I never carry over monthly credit card balances so it seems like a good deal for me.
I did not plan to weigh in anymore on this dubbing discussion, but last night I just happened to watch a film that appeared to be heavily dubbed...and not particularly well.
John Boorman's Excalibur from 1981.
Some of the dialogue sounds almost cartoonishly bad imo...particularly the lines from the main actor who plays King Arthur. I have no idea why they had to dub the lines of an English actor in an English language movie. Maybe his line readings during shooting were just that bad. But it sounds really awful to my ears and really diminishes the quality of the film.
Not a particularly well written film to begin with.
It should've been titled Arthur The Barbarian.
...starring Arnold Schwarzenegger as King Arthur.
Almost every movie has dubbed lines, even today. That's what ADR is, usually for scenes filmed outdoors where sound (wind, etc) can't be controlled. Much of Excalibur had ADR dialogue, and some of it wasn't very good.
Not unlike Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan, which had Glenn Close dubbing all of Andie McDowell's dialogue since the latter's performance was so bad.
I did not plan to weigh in anymore on this dubbing discussion, but last night I just happened to watch a film that appeared to be heavily dubbed...and not particularly well.
John Boorman's Excalibur from 1981.
Some of the dialogue sounds almost cartoonishly bad imo...particularly the lines from the main actor who plays King Arthur. I have no idea why they had to dub the lines of an English actor in an English language movie. Maybe his line readings during shooting were just that bad. But it sounds really awful to my ears and really diminishes the quality of the film.
[Show spoiler]Not a particularly well written film to begin with.
It should've been titled Arthur The Barbarian.
...starring Arnold Schwarzenegger as King Arthur.
Thanks for the warning. I was considering getting this since it's cheap, but bad dubbing gives me a massive headache, so I'll pass now.
Just The Fugitive for me, then, in this sale.
(Am I crazy or would a Criterion of that be awesome?)
Along somewhat similar lines, the unbelievably gorgeous Lysette Anthony had all of her lines in Krull (1983) dubbed over by an American actress (Lindsay Crouse), because the director of Krull had decided beforehand that Anthony's British accent would not go over so well with audiences on these shores.
Lysette Anthony jokes about this on the commentary track that is included on the Krull DVD.
I personally believe that Lysette Anthony's British accent would have been sexier than the dubbed American accent, and that it would have matched her gorgeous looks in the film, but, then again, I'm not a Hollywood mogul who is qualified to make such big decisions.
Along somewhat similar lines, the unbelievably gorgeous Lysette Anthony had all of her lines in Krull (1983) dubbed over by an American actress (Lindsay Crouse)
[Show spoiler], because the director of Krull had decided beforehand that Anthony's British accent would not go over so well with audiences on these shores.
Lysette Anthony jokes about this on the commentary track that is included on the Krull DVD.
I personally believe that Lysette Anthony's British accent would have been sexier than the dubbed American accent, and that it would have matched her gorgeous looks in the film, but, then again, I'm not a Hollywood mogul who is qualified to make such big decisions.
This was a thing in Italian cinema. They would film the movie then figure out the dialogue later and dub it in. There are a lot of Italian films like this, such as 8 1/2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namuhana
I try and not see this as a flaw, as it was common to do this, but I still find it a bit annoying whenever there's obvious dubbing in an Italian film. I can, usually, immediately tell when there's been any dubbing/ADR in TV or films in English, so it becomes even more noticeable when I watch foreign films. Oh, well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayembee
It can be distracting, but you learn to live with it if there are no alternatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theater dreamer
Going back to the discussion of overdubbing audio parts in movies for just a moment. I want to hear a film as it was intended, with the actors on screen supplying complete performances. If that means reading subtitles, then so be it, because so much of a great actor's performance comes not just from the words they are saying, but how they are saying it. Delivery, and emotion, convey much more than words alone could ever do.
I liken this to watching an opera. In Pretty Woman, Richard Gere's Edward flies Julia Roberts' Vivian to the San Francisco Opera House to see a performance of Verdi's La Traviata. Edward tells her the first time a person sees an opera, they will have a dramatic reaction: either they will love it, or hate it. If they love it, they will always love it. If they hate it, they might learn to appreciate it one day, but it will never become part of their soul. Vivian clearly does not speak Italian, but by the end of the performance, she is moved to tears. She had a visceral reaction even though she couldn't understand what specifically was being said. Think, too, of the line in Shawshank Redemption when Red is talking about "those two Italian ladies, and how to this day I have no idea what they were singing about." The sheer power of their voices, and the emotions coming through in their singing conveyed feeling to a man that had not a clue what they were saying. And judging by the reactions of the men in the courtyard when Andy started playing the opera over the p.a. system, they were moved beyond words. For a short time, the men in that prison felt free because the voices of two ladies soared where they could not go.
Think of Brando in the back seat of that car in On The Waterfront, lamenting what his life could have been. Somebody could watch that scene, and not speak a word of English, and yet, they would take something away from Brando's riveting performance. You need to hear Brando delivering the lines to feel the regret, and the pain, in his voice. Who could read those lines Brando spoke, in another language, and capture the essence of his performance? Very few men have had command of the acting muse the way Brando did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmmusic
Excellently put theater dreamer.
And I feel real disappointed when we have to necessarily put up with dubbing in the cases of international cast films.
The other day I was watching an American film, in which a Greek actor was participating (I'm Greek).
Well, I know this Greek actor and he has such a powerful voice with much weight, almost theatrical one.
The dubbing was with a thin with no substance voice that degraded the performance more than elevated it. I still think it would have been better if we heard the original voice, even with an accent.
That's why it feels so strange and funny to me, when someone does have an option in non-international cast movies, and still chooses to watch a film dubbed, just because it's more convenient and he isn't used to reading subtitles.
I wonder how Fanny and Alexander would sound in English, which has such powerful voices in the original actors.
Haven't tried it and never will.
I liked all of your points on the dubbing issue.
I learned a lot, and didn't realize that dubbing still occurs regularly today in most movies (thanks Bates_Motel for bringing that up). I guess now I fully understand what ADR means. I never realized just how important Automated dialogue replacement is though. Obviously technology has improved so much in recent decades thanks to computer animation that matches actors' lip movements with the new voice track. I guess what I hope for is the most authenticity available. In other words, if the original actor can do his voice track over his original performance, that is far, FAR better than another actor to do that actor's voice.
I mean, who is okay with another actor being dubbed over the original actor? I agree with theater dreamer very much on the Marlon Brando example. I'd be horrified if another American actor was redubbed over his voice... and obviously hearing another actor do his voice in another language isn't something I'd want to hear either.
I can bring up one more example that proves my above point.
About 12 years ago I was relaxing on a bed in a hotel room near the Dead Sea in Israel and noticed "The Devil's Advocate" was on one of the cable channels. I suddenly realized it wasn't Al Pacino's voice, but another actor, speaking in French, complete with a high pitched nasal voice! I mean, seriously? That is just not cool in my book. For an actor like Pacino, you just can't replace a voice like that! I don't care if its more convenient to hear it in your native language in whatever country you're in, the only solution is hearing the original actor with subtitles! So for that example, French subtitles would have been better.
Roger Ebert said, "what a wondrous vision Excalibur is," before drolly quipping, "and what a mess." The New York Times wrote, "Excalibur is humorless, which is not the same thing as being serious." My take? Frustratingly episodic, strangely languid, disarmingly beautiful and irrefutably bizarre, Excalibur is a film at war with itself. Sadly though, it's a war without victors.
Pretty harsh...
Of course, critical consensus isn't the be-all and end-all, but I've heard from ordinary folks that it's a cheesefest and hasn't really stood the test of time.
I'm open to a glowing recommendation, but the bad reviews, poor word-of-mouth, and dubbing issues make it a tough sell.
Of course, critical consensus isn't the be-all and end-all, but I've heard from ordinary folks that it's a cheesefest and hasn't really stood the test of time.
I'm open to a glowing recommendation, but the bad reviews, poor word-of-mouth, and dubbing issues make it a tough sell.
In terms of tone, setting, production values and acting it reminds me a lot of Conan The Barbarian.
They actually came out within a year of each other.
If you like Conan The Barbarian, there's a pretty good chance you'll like Excalibur.
If you prefer something a little more on the serious side, you'll probably be disappointed.
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) Excalibur was on HBO (I think it was) ALL THE TIME. I first saw it in the theater with my dad when I was about 11 or 12. But once it came on cable I used to watch it many times per day. 
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