The Criterion Collection

[bwdowiak]

I saw In a Lonely Place last night. It isn’t a bad film, per se, but it isn’t the type of noir/drama that I typically enjoy. It is hard to feel sympathy for Bogart’s character and

[Show spoiler] that line of dialogue that he writes for the book – the one that she repeats as the last line of the movie… it’s so terribly corny – it doesn’t match the seriousness that the drama seems to aspire to.

It also suffers from (though not as egregiously as other films) that inane noir dialogue – the type where you hardly know how the two parties have any idea what the other is talking about.

My least favorite Bogart. As for Nicholas Ray, I have to say that I’m not a fan. …and now I’m hesitant to see They Live By Night, although I probably will. I rank the N. Ray I’ve seen as follows:

Rebel Without a Cause
Johnny Guitar (although the very comparable Forty Guns is better, IMO)
In a Lonely Place
Bigger Than Life (only one that I flat out disliked)

[UpsetSmiley]

For UK buyers, WowHD have Stalker up for pre-order at £24.22. I've never pre-ordered a Criterion title before, but this one has me tempted.

[senseabove]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I saw In a Lonely Place last night. It isn’t a bad film, per se, but it isn’t the type of noir/drama that I typically enjoy. It is hard to feel sympathy for Bogart’s character and

[Show spoiler] that line of dialogue that he writes for the book – the one that she repeats as the last line of the movie… it’s so terribly corny – it doesn’t match the seriousness that the drama seems to aspire to.

It also suffers from (though not as egregiously as other films) that inane noir dialogue – the type where you hardly know how the two parties have any idea what the other is talking about.

My least favorite Bogart. As for Nicholas Ray, I have to say that I’m not a fan. …and now I’m hesitant to see They Live By Night, although I probably will. I rank the N. Ray I’ve seen as follows:

Rebel Without a Cause
Johnny Guitar (although the very comparable Forty Guns is better, IMO)
In a Lonely Place
Bigger Than Life (only one that I flat out disliked)

I don't know if Ray is quite the giant some folks make him out to be, but I do think when he's on, he's on. He does particular things really well—bringing out the drama in the crossed-purposes of wanting to do something in support of someone while not being able to seems to be his strength. That, and cutting people off in the frame in wonderfully evocative ways.

I did like In a Lonely Place a lot; noir-y dialogue aside, it does a great job building a convincing situation out of the idea that

[Show spoiler]you can't just decide to trust someone even if you want to, but you might try anyway, and that might look crazy to people around you,

by putting the audience through the same doubts about Bogart and the desire to ignore those doubts as Grahame.

I think Rebel is his only unqualified masterpiece, as far as I've seen. They Live by Night is the work of a director still getting his sea legs. If you don't like Ray just for Ray, I wouldn't blind buy it.

I rank the ones I've seen:
Rebel
In a Lonely Place
On Dangerous Ground
Party Girl
Johnny Guitar
Bigger than Life
They Live by Night
Lusty Men

On Dangerous Ground was a surprisingly delightful blind buy. It's got some pretty mediocre acting, I think, or at least some very, very,very noir-stylized acting that I don't think suits it perfectly, but the score, camerawork, and plot are excellent. It's co-written by A. I. Bezzerides, of Kiss Me, Deadly, and has similarly pessimistic undercurrents. I have a hunch that if it had a leading man with more nuance—as opposed to Robert Ryan's very "noir tough-guy " delivery—it would be ranked much more highly.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by senseabove

I don't know if Ray is quite the giant some folks make him out to be, but I do think when he's on, he's on. He does particular things really well—bringing out the drama in the crossed-purposes of wanting to do something in support of someone while not being able to seems to be his strength. That, and cutting people off in the frame in wonderfully evocative ways.

I did like In a Lonely Place a lot; noir-y dialogue aside, it does a great job building a convincing situation out of the idea that

[Show spoiler]you can't just decide to trust someone even if you want to, but you might try anyway, and that might look crazy to people around you,

by putting the audience through the same doubts about Bogart and the desire to ignore those doubts as Grahame.

I think Rebel is his only unqualified masterpiece, as far as I've seen. They Live by Night is the work of a director still getting his sea legs. If you don't like Ray just for Ray, I wouldn't blind buy it.

I rank the ones I've seen:
Rebel
In a Lonely Place
On Dangerous Ground
Party Girl
Johnny Guitar
Bigger than Life
They Live by Night
Lusty Men

On Dangerous Ground was a surprisingly delightful blind buy. It's got some pretty mediocre acting, I think, or at least some very, very,very noir-stylized acting that I don't think suits it perfectly, but the score, camerawork, and plot are excellent. It's co-written by A. I. Bezzerides, of Kiss Me, Deadly, and has similarly pessimistic undercurrents. I have a hunch that if it had a leading man with more nuance—as opposed to Robert Ryan's very "noir tough-guy " delivery—it would be ranked much more highly.

Man, I would really like to see Party Girl get a release. C'mon Warner
...

[Hoke Moseley]

Originally Posted by senseabove

I rank the ones I've seen:
Rebel
In a Lonely Place
On Dangerous Ground
Party Girl
Johnny Guitar
Bigger than Life
They Live by Night
Lusty Men

The Lusty Men last? For shame!

[bwdowiak]

@senseabove - since its Criterion related and you posted in this page today, you might be hanging around... for recognizing that Dekalog episode 3 is the goods. I saw your post in the Arrow thread. such a beautiful episode... it may not pack the emotional wallop that some of the others do, but it really hits all the right notes. the mood and the night is created perfectly and the cinematography is gorgeous.

definitely one of my favorite episodes.

[llj]

For me, nearly every Nicholas Ray is great. I consider him one of the most underappreciated American directors of all time, even though he is quite appreciated by film buffs. But I come across too many people I respect who think he wasted his potential and only made 1 or 2 great movies...an opinion of course which I strongly disagree with. I'm biased in that I've watched 90% of all his movies on the big screen. And a Nicholas Ray film on the big screen is a special experience. I've seen tons of great directors on the big screen--Godard, Hitchcock, Preminger, Bresson, Kurosawa and many more--and I have to say, there's something Ray does on the big screen that I don't get from nearly anyone else... even other greats. I can't put my finger on exactly what Ray is doing that's so much different and special for me...it could be the pacing or the photography or the color or perhaps the "bigness" of the drama...but whatever he does, it seems greatly diminished to me when watched on a TV.

For the record, Rebel Without a Cause is actually one of my least favorite Rays. This is not to say it isn't a great movie, though, but I gravitate more towards his less populist and more eccentric works.

[senseabove]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

@senseabove - since its Criterion related and you posted in this page today, you might be hanging around... for recognizing that Dekalog episode 3 is the goods. I saw your post in the Arrow thread. such a beautiful episode... it may not pack the emotional wallop that some of the others do, but it really hits all the right notes. the mood and the night is created perfectly and the cinematography is gorgeous.

definitely one of my favorite episodes.

indeed. That's one of the reasons it's the best, I think: not trying too hard in any direction. I'm still convinced the more mundane Kieslowski is, the better Kieslowski is. My favorite of the TV works from the Arrow set was Personnel, for example. But I'm one of those folks who likes White the best in the Colors Trilogy.

Originally Posted by Hoke Moseley

The Lusty Men last? For shame!

Lusty Men was by far my least favorite Ray. It's the only one I have absolutely no interest in re-watching, and I was honestly baffled by the praise I saw for it—especially now that I've seen On Dangerous Ground, which I loved and had skipped due to middling reviews! I'd much rather watch Tarnished Angels if I'm going to watch a daredevil love triangle (and I'm surprised I don't see more folks talk about Ray & Sirk in comparison—I think they have a lot in common). My slightly expanded thoughts on Lusty Men here.

Originally Posted by llj

For me, nearly every Nicholas Ray is great. I consider him one of the most underappreciated American directors of all time, even though he is quite appreciated by film buffs. But I come across too many people I respect who think he wasted his potential and only made 1 or 2 great movies...an opinion of course which I strongly disagree with. I'm biased in that I've watched 90% of all his movies on the big screen. And a Nicholas Ray film on the big screen is a special experience. I've seen tons of great directors on the big screen--Godard, Hitchcock, Preminger, Bresson, Kurosawa and many more--and I have to say, there's something Ray does on the big screen that I don't get from nearly anyone else... even other greats. I can't put my finger on exactly what Ray is doing that's so much different and special for me...it could be the pacing or the photography or the color or perhaps the "bigness" of the drama...but whatever he does, it seems greatly diminished to me when watched on a TV.

For the record, Rebel Without a Cause is actually one of my least favorite Rays. This is not to say it isn't a great movie, though, but I gravitate more towards his less populist and more eccentric works.

I can certainly see the argument for him. I do think he's very good, and like I said, when he's on, he's on. I think he was I think he's a little too uneven for me to consider him a great, but maybe that'll change as I see more and come to appreciate him more.

I've seen everything I've seen by him on the big screen during a Ray retrospective at my local arthouse (except On Dangerous Ground, but even then, my home theater is a 100-inch screen, HD projector, and full surround, so it's not like I'm watching on a laptop with tinny speakers). And I can see how the big screen treats him well. Party Girl came off because of its vibrant technicolor on the big screen, for sure. It's a gorgeous movie.

I'd be curious how you rank his movies, or at least which ones you rank highly and/or consider his "more eccentric works."

[Edward J Grug III]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I saw In a Lonely Place last night. It isn’t a bad film, per se, but it isn’t the type of noir/drama that I typically enjoy. It is hard to feel sympathy for Bogart’s character and

[Show spoiler] that line of dialogue that he writes for the book – the one that she repeats as the last line of the movie… it’s so terribly corny – it doesn’t match the seriousness that the drama seems to aspire to.

It also suffers from (though not as egregiously as other films) that inane noir dialogue – the type where you hardly know how the two parties have any idea what the other is talking about.

My least favorite Bogart. As for Nicholas Ray, I have to say that I’m not a fan. …and now I’m hesitant to see They Live By Night, although I probably will. I rank the N. Ray I’ve seen as follows:

Rebel Without a Cause
Johnny Guitar (although the very comparable Forty Guns is better, IMO)
In a Lonely Place
Bigger Than Life (only one that I flat out disliked)

We strongly disliked In a Lonely Place (which ruffled some feathers in this thread when I posted about it).

Love Johnny Guitar and Rebel though, and am still keen to check out They Live By Night.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by senseabove

indeed. That's one of the reasons it's the best, I think: not trying too hard in any direction. I'm still convinced the more mundane Kieslowski is, the better Kieslowski is. My favorite of the TV works from the Arrow set was Personnel, for example. But I'm one of those folks who likes White the best in the Colors Trilogy.



"

Wait... White was my favorite film from the Three Colors Trilogy, too!!!!
Somebody post that Step Brothers gif!!

[jshaide]

I'd love it if Criterion would release some kind of Frederick Wiseman set.

Does anyone know where the rights to these lay?

[oildude]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I saw In a Lonely Place last night. It isn’t a bad film, per se, but it isn’t the type of noir/drama that I typically enjoy. It is hard to feel sympathy for Bogart’s character and

[Show spoiler] that line of dialogue that he writes for the book – the one that she repeats as the last line of the movie… it’s so terribly corny – it doesn’t match the seriousness that the drama seems to aspire to.

It also suffers from (though not as egregiously as other films) that inane noir dialogue – the type where you hardly know how the two parties have any idea what the other is talking about.

My least favorite Bogart. As for Nicholas Ray, I have to say that I’m not a fan. …and now I’m hesitant to see They Live By Night, although I probably will. I rank the N. Ray I’ve seen as follows:

Rebel Without a Cause
Johnny Guitar (although the very comparable Forty Guns is better, IMO)
In a Lonely Place
Bigger Than Life (only one that I flat out disliked)

I highly recommend On Dangerous Ground. One of my favorite noirs for its gripping story and the outstanding performances by Ida Lupino and Robert Ryan. I blind bought the Warner Archive Blu-ray based on reputation as a top shelf film noir and for the two stars; I only realized it was directed by Nicholas Ray (which I consider a plus) during the opening credit sequence.

I'll buy anything starring Ida Lupino. Same for Robert Ryan.

[s7e]

Can we ever expect a blu-ray of The Element of Crime?

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by oildude

For anyone who appreciates high quality art prints based on films, a series of Charlie Chaplin prints was released today featuring the works of artists Tom Whalen, Jonathan Burton, Justin Erickson, and David Merveille. I bought all four. Criterion is well represented.

[Show spoiler]

Released by Nautilus Art Prints in Europe and available directly from them or through their US partner Bottleneck Gallery in New York.


There will be a fifth released soon for Modern Times. These will hang on my walls alongside two other fantastic series released by Nautilus in the past couple of years featuring Jacques Tati and Francois Truffaut.

I am hoping they commission a print for City Lights one of these days, my favorite Chaplin movie.

FYI I received my Gold Rush print yesterday. Looks great, and will look even better once framed and on the wall. Thanks again.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by Trace17

FYI I received my Gold Rush print yesterday. Looks great, and will look even better once framed and on the wall. Thanks again.

haha. You got it before me. I am still waiting on mine. It shipped Friday so should get to me next week. I ordered all four.

[Trace17]

Originally Posted by oildude

haha. You got it before me. I am still waiting on mine. It shipped Friday so should get to me next week. I ordered all four.

I got the shipping email Wednesday night. It didn't update until Thursday night and said expected delivery Saturday. I thought "yeah right" but...it did.

[fdm]

Originally Posted by jshaide

I'd love it if Criterion would release some kind of Frederick Wiseman set.

Does anyone know where the rights to these lay?

I think they're all with Fred. He has a website (zipporah.com) where you can get many of his films on mod dvd. They usually have a sale towards the end of year. (France has some box sets, if you're region free, but I may have read of forced French subs on some of the films.)

I did buy High School from him, reminded me a lot of my high school years (similar time frame). Really wish somebody would get The Cool World onto disc (only $400 if you want VHS!).

[DaBargainHunta]

Question for you guys: Do you ever still buy Criterion DVDs?

I don't mean at full-price, but it's ridiculous what you can find at thrift stores, library sales, etc. with time and patience.

For 1-3 bucks each, they're hard to resist.

For example, I just found The Royal Tenenbaums for $2.

Chasing Amy was there too, but I already have that on Blu-ray and the disc was stolen anyway.

[Caseyscott]

I buy ones that don't have a blu ray release. I most recently picked up Simon of the Desert, highly recommended by the way.

[StarDestroyer52]

I just picked up Shoot The Piano Player. Which is a movie I highly recommend.