The Criterion Collection

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

^^How do you explain why it wasn't _generally_ viewed as silly in the 80s though?

I don't know, I wasn't there in 1987, but I will say that terrible, trashy movies come out all the time TODAY that the general public and even critics flock to and praise. "Consensus" didn't mean a whole lot then and I think it means even less today.

[20th Century Boy]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

^^How do you explain why it wasn't _generally_ viewed as silly in the 80s though?

I honestly did, but I agree with you that it has since probably been seen as (potentially) purposefully silly in the intervening years. I was really young during the film's initial years so I never discussed it in depth until maybe the early 90s in high school, then not again until my rewatch in 2014-ish.

Even as a kid I thought Costner on the staircase was parody. I couldn't believe a filmmaker would be serious about that scene. Not the way it was executed.

To be honest I never knew what DePalma was going for and it bothers me, but even on my own interpretation then and now it doesn't work. Never has.

But you have made me curious about the intent of the film.

[GasmaskAvenger]

Between The Breakfast Club, NOTLD '68 and SOTL, Criterion is really starting 2018 off with a bang.

[mja345]

Damn, sick month. Really excited about "Elevator to the Gallows" and "Tom Jones". Obviously, "SoTL" and "Living Dead" are massive announcements as well.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by 20th Century Boy

But you have made me curious about the intent of the film.

I think De Palma's intent is high-opera, but I don't think it gels well with Mamet's script. As an example, at the end of the movie, when he throws Nitti off the roof, De Palma is pushing for high emotion opera, so he has Nitti screaming and Costner shouting "Did it sound like that?" loud and whiny. He steps on the screaming, which makes the line play weird. I think Mamet wrote it as an action-movie line, where the guy would fall, and smash into the car, and then you pan up to Costner and he says, wry and quiet, "Did it sound like that?" I think there's a lot like that, where the lines would work a lot better if they were done in that Mamet "Just say the lines, don't try to emote" way.

I don't dislike the movie as much as you, I do think it's "trash" but I like "trash". It's not junk...

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

I think De Palma's intent is high-opera, but I don't think it gels well with Mamet's script. As an example, at the end of the movie, when he throws Nitti off the roof, De Palma is pushing for high emotion opera, so he has Nitti screaming and Costner shouting "Did it sound like that?" loud and whiny. He steps on the screaming, which makes the line play weird. I think Mamet wrote it as an action-movie line, where the guy would fall, and smash into the car, and then you pan up to Costner and he says, wry and quiet, "Did it sound like that?" I think there's a lot like that, where the lines would work a lot better if they were done in that Mamet "Just say the lines, don't try to emote" way.

I don't dislike the movie as much as you, I do think it's "trash" but I like "trash". It's not junk...

Yes it is an odd mix of old fashioned melodrama and 80's action heroism, as I alluded to earlier.

I thought the role of Ness suited Costner too.

[20th Century Boy]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

, I do think it's "trash" but I like "trash". It's not junk...

Cue the new subthread.

[Hoke Moseley]

De Palma has made a career out of directing trash. Glorious, glorious trash.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by Hoke Moseley

De Palma has made a career out of directing trash. Glorious, glorious trash.

Yep. He is like that impossibly well dressed hobo that robs bins in affluent neighbourhoods.

[johndoyle123]

Very impressed with this month

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by johndoyle123

Very impressed with this month

The opposite.

[Poya]

Do wish Silence of the Lambs had a better cover but I’m still preordering it.

[Smegma]

Agree the NOTLD cover art sucks, but really, who cares?
Still a day one for me.

[captainron_howdy]

SOTL & NOTLD , very impressed. Plus Tom Jones! & Another Ray film.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by Smegma

Agree the NOTLD cover art sucks, but really, who cares?
Still a day one for me.

I know “don’t judge a book by its cover” and I’m still getting these movies, but it’s Criterion. They’ve put out amazing cover arts and I have high expectations for them. They won’t affect my purchases (I’m waiting for my Election BD even if it could’ve been used better art) but I have the right to be disappointed.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by Poya

Do wish Silence of the Lambs had a better cover but I’m still preordering it.

Originally Posted by Smegma

Agree the NOTLD cover art sucks, but really, who cares?
Still a day one for me.

Something tells me I'll be the only one who likes the cover art for these.

Both are day one for me.

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by Poya

I know “don’t judge a book by its cover” and I’m still getting these movies, but it’s Criterion. They’ve put out amazing cover arts and I have high expectations for them. They won’t affect my purchases (I’m waiting for my Election BD even if it could’ve been used better art) but I have the right to be disappointed.

Agree. I don't mind the cover, but it definitely could have been better.

In this case it isn't really judging a book by its cover because we have a pretty good idea of its content.

[BagheeraMcGee]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

Something tells me I'll be the only one who likes the cover art for these.

Both are day one for me.

I love the SOTL cover. I'm glad they did something different other than Hopkins' head, Foster's head, or the original poster art with half of both Hopkins' and Foster's heads.

I haven't always been thrilled with Criterion's choice of covers (the 'Pick Flick' cupcake on "Election", for example), but their batting average is still better than average.

[MifuneFan]

I'm just going to assume Tom Jones isn't as popular in comparison for us to be discussing how fugly its cover art is

[Cremildo]

People here in the Blu-ray subforum tend to boast that they're more mature and more civilized than the folks who prefer to post in the Movies subforum. Yet it is here that I find people dismissing an acclaimed and well-liked classic like The Untouchables as "trash" and as an example of "how not to make a movie" without significant explanation. For the sake of fairness, that must mean I can claim that generally disparaged stuff like Alien: Covenant or Lady in the Water are "great movies" without meeting much protest.

De Palma's movie, as someone else stated, is a very traditional thriller with action and even western undertones. It's a fun romp that doesn't seek to add depth or deconstruct the crime genre. It's worlds apart from something like Goodfellas, or even more subversive outings from De Palma himself. And I say: so what? I'm always skeptical of those who disparage something due to its very nature or due to the fact that it isn't what they wanted. And to reduce a piece of work so obviously competent in basic terms like staging, lensing, editing and production values to "trash" and imply it's precisely how a movie should not be done is just hysterical hyperboyle. Can't really take that kind of criticism seriously.