The Criterion Collection

[octagon]

Originally Posted by jw007

Quick random question to everyone:

What's your favorite movie in the Criterion Collection to watch on a frigid Winter night where the temp. outside is -6 below zero and its snowing?

I kid...I kid...this is the real one. (Or would be if my Criterion's weren't still packed from a move several months ago)

[Rzzzz]

Originally Posted by jw007

Quick random question to everyone:

What's your favorite movie in the Criterion Collection to watch on a frigid Winter night where the temp. outside is -6 below zero and its snowing?

This one is filmed in a nice tropical location.....



But stay away from this one or you might find yourself moving to Florida....

[prkchopexpress]

Originally Posted by Rzzzz

So I was in a used records/video store this weekend and they had a DVD of CC's The Night Porter. It sounds pretty dark and twisted which I like sometimes (Eraserhead is one of my all time favorites). Has anybody seen it and would you recommend it?

absolutely love and would wholeheartedly recommend the night porter.

although if you are using eraserhead as a reference to what you think the night porter is, you are only going to be disappointed.

[Hellspawn28]

I wish Criterion would pick up Kafka. I always wanted to see that movie for ages, but it never got released outside of VHS.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Reddington

Very interesting. First time reading it. Clearly, Criterion is going to defer to the director (or DP, at a director's behest) - but the above doesn't really make sense in as much as:

Storaro claims The Last Emperor was shot specifically to be framed in 2:1 - which was not an exhibition standard at the time, and predates his proposal for Univisium (initially "Univision");

The producer then states they (Bertolucci and Storaro) "hoped" all release prints would be 2.20:1 or 2:1 but not 2.35:1 - however, 2.20:1 is clearly not 2:1;

The producer then goes on to say Bertolucci and Storao filled the frame for 2.35:1 exhibition, but again "hoped" it would be released otherwise - again seems to contradict that the film was specifically shot for 2:1.

Unfortunately the idea that The Last Emperor was composed for 2:1 is revisionist nonsense spun by Storaro after his literal religious awakening while viewing the Last Supper that all films should have that ratio and that he should reframe all his old films. The Last Emperor was shot before that happened, he's retroactively trying to make it seem like he planned it all along. That's why each explanation is slightly different and contradicts the one that came before.

Here's another interview where he contradicts himself again, saying he didn't like how the film looked at 2.35:1 once he watched it that way and later decided to reframe it:

https://filmmakermagazine.com/4857-s.../#.XE_wKc17mUk

You can see footage of the movie being edited on the South Bank Show doc on the disc, and you can clearly see the frame they were intending, it's roughly 2.35:1.

Shot of the editing screen in the doc:


ORIGINAL:


CROPPED:


Note how two of the three soldiers on the left side of the screen vanish in the cropped version. All 3 are visible in the doc. And note that on the right side the guard on the edge and the second man at the table vanish, leaving only one man on that side of the table. All 3 are visible in the doc.

On the 2:1 version, the sides are cropped off very inelegantly in most shots:

ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


However, in some shots, like this three-shot of Pu Yi and his two wives sitting side by side in the back of the limo in Tianjin, they actually had to squish the picture a bit because the three faces go to the very edges of the frame.

ORIGINAL:


CROPPED/SQUISHED (Note how narrow the face of the woman on the left becomes in this cap compared to the one above):


Bertolucci clearly deferred to Storaro at the time. Criterion clearly then found themselves having to defend this bizarre choice.

However, the recent 4K restoration for the 3D version was done in 2.35:1, telling me that Bertolucci realized cropping the sides of the film off was insane. Sadly that restoration is only available as an Itlaian 3D disc, there is no 2D release of it. The OOP Japanese BD is the only release in the full OAR.

[Rzzzz]

Originally Posted by prkchopexpress

absolutely love and would wholeheartedly recommend the night porter.

although if you are using eraserhead as a reference to what you think the night porter is, you are only going to be disappointed.

Ha ha, no, I was just using that as an example of a dark, twisted movie I like....

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Rzzzz

This one is filmed in a nice tropical location.....



But stay away from this one or you might find yourself moving to Florida....

Are you telepathic because you must have read my mind.

I just broke the seal off of Midnight Cowboy and am about to pop it in now.

Dude, great call! (actually trying to book a week to FL in March to get away for some sun and heat). Unlike the 2 characters,

[Show spoiler]I won't be traveling by bus but rather by plane.

[Rzzzz]

Originally Posted by jw007

Are you telepathic because you must have read my mind.

I just broke the seal off of Midnight Cowboy and am about to pop it in now.

Dude, great call! (actually trying to book a week to FL in March to get away for some sun and heat). Unlike the 2 characters,

[Show spoiler]I won't be traveling by bus but rather by plane.

It's called shining...

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Hellspawn28

I wish Criterion would pick up Kafka. I always wanted to see that movie for ages, but it never got released outside of VHS.

There's a watchable French DVD of it. It's OOP though.

Soderbergh controls the rights to the film personally now and has been revisiting it for a while. He said about five years ago that he was re-editing it and redubbing it in German and would eventually release a special edition including both cuts. I'm sure Criterion will handle it, they've done all his artsier films, but he's probably doing it slowly, between new projects.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Xtempo

would this be the original length or the cut down version that the Criterion BD has?

The Japanese BD set is three discs and includes both the theatrical cut and the extended TV cut, which was incorrectly and confusingly marketed as the "Director's Cut" during a re-release in the 90s.

The Criterion BD is 1 disc and only contains the theatrical cut. It was one of their first BDs. You can only get the extended cut on the 4-disc Criterion DVD set.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by jerclay

I read somewhere that Criterion's The Thin Red Line has some issues - color changes at some point or something like that.

One single shot, of Elias Koteas's face, from 29:11-29:33 is incorrectly digitized, so it's kind of weird and pixely, looking like a 90s Quicktime movie. That error is not present on the UK disc.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by jw007

Quick random question to everyone:

What's your favorite movie in the Criterion Collection to watch on a frigid Winter night where the temp. outside is -6 below zero and its snowing?

A film centered on a man running sweat-drenched in a loincloth in the baking African heat?

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

I've held off on upgrading Night and the City and The Manchurian Candidate because the U.K. editions seem to offer superior all-around packages.

Originally Posted by nitin

Both of these Criterion’s look much superior.
As for Night of the Hunter

Wrong film. The BFI release of Night and the City is terrific, provides both cuts of the film with lossless audio and has a winning extra in the form of the Richard Widmark iinterview at the NFT - a thorough gentleman and so full of great anecdotes, this one beats anything the Criterion release puts up.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Unfortunately the idea that The Last Emperor was composed for 2:1 is revisionist nonsense spun by Storaro after his literal religious awakening while viewing the Last Supper that all films should have that ratio and that he should reframe all his old films.

[Show spoiler] The Last Emperor was shot before that happened, he's retroactively trying to make it seem like he planned it all along. That's why each explanation is slightly different and contradicts the one that came before.

Here's another interview where he contradicts himself again, saying he didn't like how the film looked at 2.35:1 once he watched it that way and later decided to reframe it:

https://filmmakermagazine.com/4857-s.../#.XE_wKc17mUk

You can see footage of the movie being edited on the South Bank Show doc on the disc, and you can clearly see the frame they were intending, it's roughly 2.35:1.

Shot of the editing screen in the doc:


ORIGINAL:


CROPPED:


Note how two of the three soldiers on the left side of the screen vanish in the cropped version. All 3 are visible in the doc. And note that on the right side the guard on the edge and the second man at the table vanish, leaving only one man on that side of the table. All 3 are visible in the doc.

On the 2:1 version, the sides are cropped off very inelegantly in most shots:

ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


ORIGINAL


CROPPED


However, in some shots, like this three-shot of Pu Yi and his two wives sitting side by side in the back of the limo in Tianjin, they actually had to squish the picture a bit because the three faces go to the very edges of the frame.

ORIGINAL:


CROPPED/SQUISHED (Note how narrow the face of the woman on the left becomes in this cap compared to the one above):


Bertolucci clearly deferred to Storaro at the time. Criterion clearly then found themselves having to defend this bizarre choice.

However, the recent 4K restoration for the 3D version was done in 2.35:1, telling me that Bertolucci realized cropping the sides of the film off was insane. Sadly that restoration is only available as an Itlaian 3D disc, there is no 2D release of it. The OOP Japanese BD is the only release in the full OAR.

Excellent rebuttal. The squishing of the women in the frame is a very clear indicator. Also, even in the footage shown at the Oscars ceremony, the ratio was 2.35:1. Has there ever been a record of the film being theatrically screened at 2/2.2:1 in its original release? Criterion should have insisted on releasing the film in both AR's, surely a much greater reason for it here than with On the Waterfront.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Excellent rebuttal. The squishing of the women in the frame is a very clear indicator. Also, even in the footage shown at the Oscars ceremony, the ratio was 2.35:1. Has there ever been a record of the film being theatrically screened at 2/2.2:1 in its original release? Criterion should have insisted on releasing the film in both AR's, surely a much greater reason for it here than with On the Waterfront.

I really hope Criterion (or somebody) revisits The Last Emperor soon.

Aside from the hideous, disastrous cropping, and the revisionist changes to the color timing, the transfer itself is appalling - it looks like an upscaled DVD, it's swarming with digital noise.

In addition, it's a stripped down version of the 4-disc DVD boxset, containing only one of the two cuts the DVD has. It also squishes the film and the bonus features onto a single BD and drops the thick paperback book included with the DVD.

It's easily the most wretched BD I've seen from Criterion, but it was one of their very first.

Now that the new 4K restoration exists, I hope they eventually upgrade it.

[nitin]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Wrong film. The BFI release of Night and the City is terrific, provides both cuts of the film with lossless audio and has a winning extra in the form of the Richard Widmark iinterview at the NFT - a thorough gentleman and so full of great anecdotes, this one beats anything the Criterion release puts up.

Clearly was not reading properly, and yes I agree the BFI disc is superior than the Criterion for Night and the City. The alternate UK cut is much better encoded and I also second the enthusiasm for that interview!

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by jw007

Quick random question to everyone:

What's your favorite movie in the Criterion Collection to watch on a frigid Winter night where the temp. outside is -6 below zero and its snowing?

Black Orpheus-Carnival time in Brazil. Beautiful colors, beautiful people, and a warm climate. A complete contrast to the cold temperatures and drab look of winter.

[SteelyTom]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

The Third Man. The Criterion release is OOP anyway but some people still pay big bucks for it while the UK release from Studio Canal is from a 4K restoration and is region free.

The packaging on the UK release states it's Region B.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by SteelyTom

The packaging on the UK release states it's Region B.

It has been confirmed by several sources to be region-free.

[regeyer]

Originally Posted by jw007

Quick random question to everyone:

What's your favorite movie in the Criterion Collection to watch on a frigid Winter night where the temp. outside is -6 below zero and its snowing?