The Criterion Collection

[HillSprinter]

It must be hard the the 4K crowd to accept that most people haven’t even upgraded to Blu-ray yet. No-one in my family has a Blu-ray player, either they’re oblivious/happy with dvd, or they’re streaming. 4K is pretty irrelevant to non-videophiles. I’m an HD videophile and I’ve very little interest in upgrading anything beyond 1080.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by regeyer

I think you seriously overestimate the number of people who have gone from Blu-Ray to UHD. Many of us have not yet gone that route.

There was a US consumer report earlier this year (maybe quoted here on in another forum) that confirmed that the sale of UHD players peaked in 2017, and declined year-on-year in 2018, and 2019. If I recall correctly, it also said that the no major manufacturer was planning to introduce 2020 models, instead relying on older units to satisfy demand.

Separately, I think it has been stated in this thread a number of times that Criterion still sells more titles on DVD than BD - although difficult to say for certain, or by what margin, as I believe Criterion has never released official sales figures for titles/formats.

[edmoney]

Originally Posted by NeoNical

I hope Lionsgate loses the rights to those movies. But to me, it seems like Ran, Contempt, and all the other StudioCanal films aren't going to be getting any releases anytime soon (Including The Third Man and The Grand Illusion)

Originally Posted by DandyDancing

They did

Source? Unless this happened very recently, Kino Lorber Insider had confirmed in the Kino thread in late 2018 that Lionsgate still had rights to films like Ran, Contempt, and The Third Man.

[NeoNical]

Now that everyone is saying that. I'm debating whether or not I should downgrade back to Blu-ray and maybe DVD. Just for nostalgia purposes of seeing films in a more trashy print than watching a restored version. There are some DVDs that I found for a cheap price I might consider buying alongside the Blu-ray. The fact that a lot of people are still buying DVD is a fact I DID NOT know at all. I guess that means Criterion won't be doing 4K anytime soon . Still, Criterion should consider upgrading to 4K ASAP starting with some fo their best titles like 8 1/2, Seven Samurai, and Seventh Seal. They already got the 4K restoration and I think they might just provide a few more extras on 8 1/2 and Seventh Seal and I think you got yourselves the best version of those movies to date. No other company could possibly top that other than Arrow Video's packaging with the poster, lobby cards, and more supplements but I doubt that will happen.

As much as I love to see Criterion going 4K with some of their great titles that I wouldn't mind double-dipping for, I will stick around with the DVD and Blu-ray then. There are only a few titles that I think need to be upgraded in 4K from Criterion because of their digital issues like A Touch of Zen, War and Peace (Or a better spaced out Blu-ray), and any other film that was crammed and compressed badly just for the supplements to fit in.

Highly Possible Controversial Opinion: 4K just sounds better because the colors do look more realistic but surprisingly the Blu-rays also look natural too when you have never seen the 4K version first. Sharpness and details also isn't a big change IMO since there is a good amount of grain and details visible on a Blu-ray most of the time and this is agreed from a person who is "better than 50% of people who have 20/20 vision" as my ophthalmologist claimed which I doubt that is even true. (And I have some of the worst hearing in exchange for great vision). Still, 4K shouldn't really be a problem at all and I can see that perfectionists would probably want to buy them just so they can get the best experience yet (I, too, am a perfectionist so I was one of those 4K complainers when Elephant Man was announced). Blu-rays are great but if companies move to 8K, there wouldn't be a point anymore because Blu-rays are wonderful at this point as many companies have learned the trick to making a good one.

[anthonyls]

Originally Posted by mrmikefern

Kino has mentioned that several of their releases, including some of their most popular ones, sell more on DVD than on Blu-ray.

I'm 99% positive that these DVD sales are coming from libraries... or companies that buy media to sell to libraries. No person in their right mind who is interested in anything outside of blockbusters would be interested in watching a movie in its worse PQ presentation. I keep requesting my library to add Criterion and Kino blu ray discs to their collection... but no... they just keep adding DVDs instead. Why? Because they get them for almost half the cost of the same blu ray. That is what they tell me. It's simple economics on their part... and they tell me many patrons don't know (of even care) about the difference between a DVD and blu ray. And when they borrow a movie on blu ray, they bring it back and complain that it won't work on their player (because they only have a 15 year old DVD player and never bothered to upgrade). Then the librarian has to explain to them what the difference between a DVD and blu ray is. Very frustrating. I swear... many people live under a rock.

[NeoNical]

Originally Posted by anthonyls

I'm 99% positive that these DVD sales are coming from libraries... or companies that buy media to sell to libraries.

On Amazon, I found a lot of OOP Criterion DVDs from libraries (I bought Army of Shadows for like $15 at a Seattle Library). So I can definitely see libraries make a lot of money from those DVD. Surprisingly, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Only problem is that the case was shattered and I asked Criterion if they could replace but they said they couldn't replace any OOP DVDs (This happened before the announcement and I decided that the case wasn't a problem because it wasn't ripping apart and it wasn't bad). I'm glad some of these OOP DVDs are sometimes really cheap and that libraries are willing to sell them off.

P.S.: Just bought Last Year at Marienbad DVD under $20 recently and I'm excited to get it! I heard the DVD wasn't bad according to Criterion Forum so I decided to pull the trigger on it since the supplements are also pretty exclusive to Criterion and not the Kino version. I'll probably delay my plan to buy the Kino version a year or two later but it's fine. I can always watch a digital version on Kanopy All I hope is that it comes with the Criterion DVD, booklet, and packaging. And hope it's not a Korean bootleg like Tokyo Story or a Kino version which would suck.

[Brandon K]

Originally Posted by NeoNical

I'm debating whether or not I should downgrade back to Blu-ray and maybe DVD. Just for nostalgia purposes of seeing films in a more trashy print than watching a restored version.

This is a bit off-topic to Criterion and boutique labels and is more mainstream-focused, so apologies in advance... I grew up in the 80s and we always watched rentals on VHS, but I was too young (and spent too much money on comic books) to collect VHSs or Laserdiscs. And then there was DVD. I've kept most of my DVDs even after upgrading to Blu-ray copies. A handful of DVDs I gave away I later regretted not keeping.

I like to watch the original theatrical color grading of The Matrix. I like to watch the full screen versions of movies such as Terminator 3 or Harry Potter 1 that feature more picture top and bottom (yes, I know they're not intended, but out of interest). I like to watch Disney movies that haven't been butchered.

DVD box sets and special editions had way more love put into them, from everything about the packaging (the artwork, no eco cases, no stacked discs, quality disc hubs unlike today's thin disc hubs that discs fall off of, those foldout TV sets - I actually liked those) and extras (how about that E.T. Ultimate Gift Set with the large "real book you'd buy in a bookstore" hardcover book, just to name one?) to special features that, once DVD was in its prime, were generally far more substantial.

Some Blu-rays have legitimate unresolved issues, whether related to PQ or AQ or what-have-you. I feel nostalgic about the way that DVDs look with their magenta push, and I just can't get used to the way that some films that have only been on Blu-ray with new gradings look compared to the majority of my viewing experience, which was on DVD. And stuff like this always sends me looking for more original DVD releases.

I could go on and on... I definitely have a lot of nostalgia for the DVD era. Any new film or TV show, I wouldn't buy a DVD just for the sake of it, I'm Blu-ray 100%. But old DVDs... I'm still very much interested in maintaining and growing my collection.

[backwater]

If the B&N sale is canceled, I wonder if Criterion will do a July 50% flash sale. The B&N sales are certainly a huge boon for Criterion's profits.

[critterdvd]

Originally Posted by anthonyls

I'm 99% positive that these DVD sales are coming from libraries... or companies that buy media to sell to libraries. No person in their right mind who is interested in anything outside of blockbusters would be interested in watching a movie in its worse PQ presentation. I keep requesting my library to add Criterion and Kino blu ray discs to their collection... but no... they just keep adding DVDs instead. Why? Because they get them for almost half the cost of the same blu ray. That is what they tell me. It's simple economics on their part... and they tell me many patrons don't know (of even care) about the difference between a DVD and blu ray. And when they borrow a movie on blu ray, they bring it back and complain that it won't work on their player (because they only have a 15 year old DVD player and never bothered to upgrade). Then the librarian has to explain to them what the difference between a DVD and blu ray is. Very frustrating. I swear... many people live under a rock.

I was just about to come in and post this. Criterion still makes a considerable amount of money on DVDs from the library market. In order to get funding for media, libraries are require to purchase whichever edition is the most accessible to the most patrons (That's why Video Streaming is really taking off in the Library market right now) and 95% of the time with physical media that's going to be DVD wither it's a local suburban library or a major University. The University Library I used to work at we would actually have Film Professors donate copies of certain movies on Blu-Ray, so they would be available in that format for the students who wanted the option. They knew we weren't even allowed to budget for anything other than DVD...

[NeoNical]

Originally Posted by Brandon K

I feel nostalgic about the way that DVDs look with their magenta push, and I just can't get used to the way that some films that have only been on Blu-ray with new gradings look compared to the majority of my viewing experience, which was on DVD. And stuff like this always sends me looking for more original DVD releases.

I could go on and on... I definitely have a lot of nostalgia for the DVD era. Any new film or TV show, I wouldn't buy a DVD just for the sake of it, I'm Blu-ray 100%. But old DVDs... I'm still very much interested in maintaining and growing my collection.

DVDs were also part of my time but it was a few years before Blu-rays started to get big so I can see where a lot of that nostalgia can come from. I still do go to the library to watch some really old DVDs and I must say, they give me a completely different experience from Blu-rays and I'm thankful for that.

The Seventh Seal is a great example of one of those different experiences I had. First watched the 1999 DVD and it absolutely terrified me. I would go as far to say that was the scariest non-horror movie experience I had other than A Clockwork Orange and Eraserhead (If you count that as non-horror but it's most likely is horror). And watching it now on Blu-ray feels a lot more beautiful and less terrifying. Maybe because I already knew what was going to happen since it was my second or third go through with the movie but I also feel like the old and the minimally restored style that the DVD had contributed a lot to that feeling of terror. It was like watching a horror movie VHS or a scary lost VHS tapes that you would find on YouTube. Many people don't think this movie is scary but oh it definitely was for me and I'm thankful that it existed. One of the best experiences ever!

Hard Boiled is another one of those movies that was wonderfully packed with extras on there. First version I bought was the Dragon Dynasty DVD and I thought it looked OK at times but the color grading being a little "weird" at times (Skin color has a vomit like color of yellow or a coffee bean like brown so it felt uneven at times) and I thought it looked pretty ok with the 5.1 track included. And since it was a film I genuinely liked (I might've talked about this movie several times on this forum), I decided to buy the Criterion DVD for it (No booklet or case, just the DVD itself sadly) and it felt really weird to me. With a jpg like DVD menu with random pictures of the Hong Kong city moving up and down and switching like an old computer background saver with the title in a rainbow reminded me a lot of those early 2000s computer graphics and fun, colorful fonts that would last for another 10 years (You can see all these colors and rainbows in old YouTube videos.) The audio was pretty flat I will admit but the colors felt more genuine and felt more accurate. Where the iconic hospital sequence was blue on the DD DVD, it was a warm sepia like tone in the Criterion version. Completely different atmosphere and I much preferred the way Criterion showed it. And also filled with old extras and interviews, this film gave me a lot of nostalgia and I think I'll be keeping this film for those personal reasons. (NOTE: I tried to buy another used copy of this film online but instead got a bootleg version with 2 DVDs. One had the Criterion cover with a different text on the top where the Criterion Collection is supposed to be written on there and the other one was using the Mei Ah DVD Case. One of them was a Tartan Region 2 release that was working in Region 1 for some reason and the other was a straight bootleg with a freeze frame of Chow Yun Fat's blurred face sliding back with two guns at the beginning of the tea house shootout. The bootleg DVD had the original Criterion version but surprisingly the DVD menu was extremely fake looking with one of those powerpoint looking slides and text that was bold, italic, and underlined. That's another realm of nostalgia for those who have experienced bootlegs before )

Nonetheless, there are some films that are simply worth buying on DVD for the old experience and I fully agree with that. For more recent films that I may have seen, I will probably stick with the Blu-rays unless if I really love the film and be willing to watch a 90s DVD version of it to see how most people may have watched it back then. Nostalgia is a beautiful captured moment of time and space together and the DVD is one of those perfect definitions of nostalgia. And I agree, that some of those DVDs do have more work and effort put into it. Hell, this post makes me want to buy more DVDs now. So glad that I can finally understand why some people still keep DVDs

[dbhl3000]

Originally Posted by JasonMichael

I think a lot of people are quite happy with DVD. I wouldn't be surprised if Criterion would be farther ahead keeping DVD and replacing the Blu-ray releases with 4k UHD. I am sure UHD sales would cut into Blu sales, so Criterion could sell DVD to the person who wants a basic release and UHD to those who want the best version. I know it doesn't sound intuitive, but I really think it would work.

To me DVDs on my 55-inch screen look more like I remember films looking on the movie theater screens when I was a child and young man.
They never looked as clear or colorful as blu-ray but still looked great. Maybe it's just a nostalgia thing with me. The result is that I still sometimes pick up the Criterion DVD edition instead of the blu-ray edition in order to save some money, especially the black and white films.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by dbhl3000

To me DVDs on my 55-inch screen look more like I remember films looking on the movie theater screens when I was a child and young man.
They never looked as clear or colorful as blu-ray but still looked great. Maybe it's just a nostalgia thing with me. The result is that I still sometimes pick up the Criterion DVD edition instead of the blu-ray edition in order to save some money, especially the black and white films.

I can understand this. I have quite a few titles that I'll likely never upgrade - either because they are not firm favourites, or because the DVD looks fine.

As I've said before in various threads, some members have clearly never had the "pleasure" of watching/collecting films on pan-and-scan VHS.

[AllAboutMatt]

I still keep a few DVDs around, like Paramount's John Wayne films. I first watched those movies on the old "John Wayne Collection" DVDs, so I associate them with that picture quality. Plus that intro never fails to get me ready for a fun adventure!

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by Brandon K

I’m sure that those in the 4K camp feel the same way about us non-adopters as those of us in the Blu-ray camp who shake our heads at the DVD buyers.

Just speaking for myself, not at all. As much as I love Ultra HD Blu-ray, I’ve bought (exactly!) twice as many titles on Blu-ray vs. UHD BD over the past 6 months. Shortly after the HD formats launched, DVD was basically dead to me, but that’s not at all the case this time around. I look at UHD BD as a supplement to Blu-ray rather than its successor.

And even if Criterion were to start releasing titles on Ultra HD Blu-ray, I know I’d still be buying more Criterion BDs than UHDs just because most movies wouldn’t really be viable sellers on the format. (I mean, I’d buy The Lady Eve in Ultra HD, but would thousands of others join me? Probably not.) But just as I know the number of viable titles is far from 100% of Criterion’s release slate, I know it’s not 0% either, so I would just like to have that option when it makes sense.

[HillSprinter]

As much as I’m ambivalent to 4K at this stage, I’m quite the elitist when it comes to HD....I have no intention of ever watching a film in SD again if I can possibly avoid it! I had the displeasure of many years of collecting VHS & DVD, before widescreen even became standard. I was aware of the impending HD format at least a decade before it finally arrived, and it was a few years more before I got the hardware to fully enjoy the delights of higher resolutions, and I’ve been content with the amount of detail on offer ever since. More highly resolved detail isn’t gonna affect my enjoyment levels any further.

[joy-division]

I'm waiting until there is a playstation that can pkay 8K discs before upgrading

[joy-division]

I just bought The Garbage Pail Kids Movie on DVD

You think I should have waited just in case Criterion might put it out?

[Bn43]

I collect UHDs, Blu-rays and DVDs. (I have a lot more than listed on my profile.) Kind of pity the people who can't go from the best to the worst, because there's so much stuff that will never be upgraded from the worst. I also don't understand the people who are ambivalent towards UHD, as if Blu-ray is ideal for film or something. Whatever.

[flyry]

This DVD love fest on the last page is odd. Let that format die ffs.

[ravenus]

Did this thread just go from "Why can't Criterion release everything on UHD from now on?" to "Actually I prefer watching my DVD's"? Talk about sending mixed messages