Sony Black Crush on late-2014 / early-2015 BDs

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

I'm working on contacting people who may have some power to change this, I promise I am

Oh, I hope something comes out of this. Really.
Although I'm pessimistic about it.

Mr. Harris says this, although I'm not sure I understood.

it could be that everyone's monitors are improperly adjusted for the new gamma standard of 2.4 vs 2.2.
There may be a need for multiple settings based upon the date that programming was finalized and authored.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topi...ray/?p=4211699

[jscoggins]

What a pain. Even if we assume that there is a new "gamma standard", that means that people have to consciously, intentionally change their TV settings just for the Sony BDs.

By the way, someone in that thread makes a great point -- if LCD monitors were responsible for our complaints, then we'd be complaining about EVERY BD, not just these three or four.

[Pecker]

I think at this stage we'd all appreciate a comment from Sony.

Steve W

[amoergosum]

"....crushed blacks enabled...aaaaaand sent..."

[Wernski]

I think people are jumping into this discussion while being pretty confused. The gamma of the monitor or the relative brightness of the image don't really enter into it. The problem is black CRUSH.

Take a look at those My Best Friends Wedding screencaps from the front page. Go ahead and up the gamma on your monitor... Not even a natural amount, go ahead and push it to eleven so the picture is way way too bright and ugly. Those black spots (a la Juila's hair) are still completely solid areas with no information, even though those same spots can be seen in the other screenshot just fine. Here, I'll illustrate.



Crushing blacks erases picture information, part of the image is no longer there. It's not about whether people think a darker image looks better or worse... those screenshots could be generally darker, or not, without crushing blacks. The issue here is crushed blacks. The data is being erased from the image, and there is no type of TV/ monitor or setting that can make it visible once it's gone.

[vargo]

Originally Posted by Wernski

Crushing blacks erases picture information, part of the image is no longer there. It's not about whether people think a darker image looks better or worse... those screenshots could be generally darker, or not, without crushing blacks. The issue here is crushed blacks. The data is being erased from the image, and there is no type of TV/ monitor or setting that can make it visible once it's gone.

Correct. A lot of people don't seem to understand the issue.

[Poya]

This came out a long time ago, but the Age Of Innocence BD comes with black AND white crush:


http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=1#vergleich

[filmmusic]

Age of innocence doesn't look that bad to me comparing to these latest releases.

By the way, I'm really afraid now about Remains of the Day coming from TT, that i want to buy.
Well, we'll see how it'll compare to the UK release.

[tama]

I do not believe this would be a gamma shift issue (If it is indeed an issue). Calibrators aim for 2.35 on most display sets or another term the use is BT 1886 I believe. I believe newer sets now come from the factory with 2.2 being the mark or preset in movie mode. This change has been somewhat debated between calibrators and I believe most aim for the former on sets that can capably reach the lower Gamma setting or sets in dark (Light controlled) rooms.

Anyhow since I only currently own MBFW I played around with my gamma settings for a while last night. Even if going back to a somewhat 2.2 all you really see changed is saturation in colors and while the overall image appears a bit brighter and less contrasty which might be more pleasing to some folks it did not bring out any additional information in certain scenes that were black or shrouded in black.

So I will have to disagree with Mr. Harris assessment or theory. He might be thinking people are complaining about an overall dimmer image and not understanding the complaints of people feeling some image is being completely loss in darker areas altogether.

Also he states people improperly having sets adjusted for the new 2.4 gamma setting. Sounds like he doesn't agree with that setting and prefers the traditional 2.2?

[wesslan]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Yes. A couple of people walked in here saying that their Panasonic plasmas were awesome and better than everyone else's LCDs. They became very quiet when someone with a Panasonic plasma said that he had to brighten his TV from his usual settings in order to be able to watch Fury at all.

Using one of Panasonics best plasmas, a ISF calibrated 65 inch VT60. Sure the movie is very dark buy unwatchable? Heck no, it looked still amazing.

Same with all that said Godzilla had totally wrong blacks also, sure dark yes but no problems enjoying the movie.

Only thing my fiancée and me reflected over on fury was the amazing detail

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by wesslan

Using one of Panasonics best plasmas, a ISF calibrated 65 inch VT60. Sure the movie is very dark buy unwatchable? Heck no, it looked still amazing.

Same with all that said Godzilla had totally wrong blacks also, sure dark yes but no problems enjoying the movie.

Only thing my fiancée and me reflected over on fury was the amazing detail

As Wernski just demonstrated, a dark/dim picture is not the same as having crushed blacks.

Moreover, if the problem were a matter of plasma vs. LCD, then we'd be complaining about EVERY BD, not just these Sony ones.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by wesslan

Using one of Panasonics best plasmas, a ISF calibrated 65 inch VT60. Sure the movie is very dark buy unwatchable? Heck no, it looked still amazing.

Same with all that said Godzilla had totally wrong blacks also, sure dark yes but no problems enjoying the movie.

Only thing my fiancée and me reflected over on fury was the amazing detail

It's not the same as Godzilla and your plasma tv isn't able to create detail that just isn't there.

And for the record, I am a huge plasma supporter. It was the only thing I would look at before I went projector.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Pecker

I think at this stage we'd all appreciate a comment from Sony.

Steve W

I agree. I contacted Sony home video's Culver City offices, and they weren't very receptive, telling me to just call the 800 consumer hotline. I didn't have much faith in this, especially when I found it was, as I suspected it would be, just a call center somewhere, unconnected to the Culver City offices or the actual physical production facilities for the BDs. However I wanted to be able to say, if asked, that I went through every step in the chain of command, so I described our issues to the people there in great detail and sent the fellow I spoke with an email with caps and links to this thread and other comparisons. I honestly don't expect anything to happen from that.

I think the only way Sony will react is if we can get the filmmakers involved. I promise I'm working on that, as I did with FRANTIC, it just takes a bit of time.

[revgen]

Crave Films. David Ayers production company website and phone # is here.

http://cravefilms.com/

[Blu-21]

TBH from the caps I've seen, I think the U.S BD looks best in scenes that are already bright and well lit, but it suffers badly in darker and lower lit scenes to the point that it's worse than even the DVD. Anyway regardless, the Sony BD being the odd one out of all the SD and HD versions out there means that the transfer is most likely the incorrect one.

[willh51]

The Blu-ray of My Girl looks OK but there are some black crush issues there, too. There is a shot early on where Dan Aykroyd's suit is one giant black mess.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by metallic

I disagree agree about the DVD being bright, the actual black level is the same as the Blu-ray. The parts of the image that are total 'black' on both are the same.

The difference is the DVD (and all the other versions apart from the Sony BD) actually has shadow detail.

Even if the DVD can be seen as too bright (but I do believe that histograms would show otherwise), there is certainly something to be obtained between the DVD and the BD.

[Phil92]

Just had a Blu-ray review copy of Annie that also features heavily crushed blacks.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by Phil92

Just had a Blu-ray review copy of Annie that also features heavily crushed blacks.

[sixty-inch]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

If I end up purchasing the Polish disc I will do that. Does that disc have English audio at all though?

Yes it has English DTS-HD MA Sound and English Hard-coded Subs for German dialogue Parts. Polish Subs can be disabled in the Menu: