4K Movies Releases

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

What I find most interesting, or perhaps sad, is that with their proprietary codec solution, they could have comfortably fit a 4K feature length movie (even long ones) on a 50 GB disc for consumers, but they decided against optical media.

I’m thinking though at least for filmmakers or hobbyists who have their own 4K cameras that with the SD slot pictured on the front of the device, at least if you wanted to have or conveniently pass out your 4K shot stuff on physical media to friends and such, you may be able to use high speed 32 GB SD cards which are not that expensive.

I think you nailed it as far as why they chose not to do optical media. I think Red's intent was to cater to the production needs of many small time guys, and hobbyists in term of sharing and transporting Reds codec outside of Odemax distribution. What does a BD-R cost these days? Not to mention Apple (popular for running a non-linear editor) has never been very Blu-Ray friendly.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I think you nailed it as far as why they chose not to do optical media. I think Red's intent was to cater to the production needs of many small time guys, and hobbyists in term of sharing and transporting Reds codec outside of Odemax distribution. What does a BD-R cost these days? Not to mention Apple (popular for running a non-linear editor) has never been very Blu-Ray friendly.

The good thing is there are other advanced compression schemes out there besides the RED codec - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...on#post7936924

RED’s in a bit of a pickle with Odemax as a distribution partner in regards to gaining any real traction. You see, the majors are extremely focused on the control of content, heck, for example just consider how much money and resources they invest to prevent/impede piracy. They realize that Jim Jannard (between Oakley and RED digital cameras) has proven to be an outstandingly successful showman and salesman. Nobody wants to give him popular (i.e. theatrical feature film) content to play with, for they fear that if they open that door, it could give RED a foothold in the mainstream consumer 4K marketplace.

The only way I see RED breaking down this obstacle (other than financing their own productions at RED Studios with big name Directors and actors) is if one of the traditional major studios is in such financial trouble (like on the verge of bankruptcy, etc.) that they agree to license out some content to RED/Odemax, or RED finds some studio President who is willing to make a deal because he knows he is on his way out for one reason or another and doesn’t care about the long-term future repercussions to the company as far as RED becoming a real competitor in something other than cameras.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

saprano - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ap#post7719340 I haven’t forgotten answering the question as to why they look like crap, i.e.


I’ll get to doing at least a cursory explanation (eventually) when I have more time. E.G., different mastering environments, etc. It’s not Blu-ray per se, as high bit rate Blu-ray can hold up *fairly well* on reasonably sized (very small theatrical) screens, but rather, ‘the crap’ is due to the challenge of projecting a Blu-ray movie with a D-Cinema projector.

Well, BTTF was a bad transfer from Universal anyway. Blown up on a big screen would make it look worse. A well made BD can do fine on small cinema screens i think. Something like my new favorite, film shot, Technicolor goodness, Bye Bye Birdie. My, my, what a fantastic looking movie. It looks better than most films shot today. I'm sure that would of been a much better presentation than what i got with BTTF.

With that said, an actual film print will always be preferred over using a BD as a replacement.

[Penton-Man]

Steed, Tob ---- the Arsenal is continuing to pursue *Jaws*…. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...d-striker.html

I actually want the guy now that it’s obvious his leaving/staying with Liverpool has become such a distraction to the Prem, in general. Maybe he got *biting therapy* during the offseason and he’s no longer a threat to the flesh of other players?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by saprano

Bye Bye Birdie

Reminds me, songs and such, All That Jazz received a new 4K restoration, someone should place it on one of those wish lists so that the distributor notices there is some demand from home theater enthusiasts for the Blu-ray rendition.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by saprano

Well, BTTF was a bad transfer from Universal anyway. Blown up on a big screen would make it look worse. A well made BD can do fine on small cinema screens i think...

Not really Sap. Best practice would be to watch Blu-rays at home rather than at a theater….no matter what be the screen size. In essence, the problem is that D-Cinema projectors can’t correctly cope with the differences between Rec.709 (Blu-ray) and XYZ (DCP) color spaces. And as a Kuro owner , I know you love your blacks. Anyway, the result is that the black levels are *off*, being washed out or clipped.

Additionally, Rec709 is mastered in a different lighting environment with a different gamma and contrast than is D-Cinema material, which, like black levels, results in there being no successful way for the D-Cinema projector to correctly adjust for that either. In other words, there are no good D-Cinema projector setup files. The end result is that there is often not enough contrast in the Blu-ray images as there should be….if it was exhibited as intended.

I know some theaters show Blu-rays (for one reason or another) but I personally wouldn't waste my time in watching them.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Steed, Tob ---- the Arsenal is continuing to pursue *Jaws*…. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...d-striker.html

I actually want the guy now that it’s obvious his leaving/staying with Liverpool has become such a distraction to the Prem, in general. Maybe he got *biting therapy* during the offseason and he’s no longer a threat to the flesh of other players?

Yep, almost as bad as the Rooney saga.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Additionally, Rec709 is mastered in a different lighting environment with a different gamma and contrast than is D-Cinema material...

For example, mastering for D-Cinema projection is in a dark environment with the gamma being set to 2.6 which is different than that for typical Rec.709 mastering (dim environment and lower gamma)….not to mention the fact that the material contrast set by the colorist is also different for each type of material (DCP vs. Rec.709) and the D-Cinema projectors just can’t compensate for this.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For example, mastering for D-Cinema projection is in a dark environment with the gamma being set to 2.6 which is different than that for typical Rec.709 mastering (dim environment and lower gamma)….not to mention the fact that the material contrast set by the colorist is also different for each type of material (DCP vs. Rec.709) and the D-Cinema projectors just can’t compensate for this.

I swore I read a write-up on the Sony SRX-R220 4k DCI projector once that mentioned that it can automatically adjust the color space between XYZ, Rec 709, and NTSC Rec 601 depending on the video source? Wouldn't that essentially get around this problem? Not saying every theater does this, or that even every projectionist would bother following up on this either. Still it can't be that hard to display a Blu-Ray on one properly? Mainly of a lack of caring I would imagine.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I swore I read a write-up on the Sony SRX-R220 4k DCI projector once that mentioned that it can automatically adjust the color space between XYZ, Rec 709, and NTSC Rec 601 depending on the video source? Wouldn't that essentially get around this problem? Not saying every theater does this, or that even every projectionist would bother following up on this either. Still it can't be that hard to display a Blu-Ray on one properly? Mainly of a lack of caring I would imagine.

DCI-compliant D-Cinema projectors are equipped with several color space settings of which a caring/conscientious projectionist cam automatically choose from (including Rec.709) which are *acceptable* for something like atypical Blu-ray showings in contradistinction to typical DCP showings.

However, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are accurate, i.e. precise. The Rec.709 set-up files themselves can’t correctly deal with mastering differences in material contrast between the formats (Rec.709 vs. XYZ) nor black levels (which D-Cinema projectors don’t adjust for at all….PERIOD, despite the automatic setting options available to the projectionist) and despite what any write-up may indicate.

Some may ask…’but how do you know this’? Well, for the same reason I knew about test sequences and blondes back in Dec. 2008…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...de#post1432708

Which eventually came to fruition in 2011….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...69#post4453123

And some never discovered until this year - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ry#post7591928

But, if readers remain skeptical then I would suggest they attend a theatrical presentation where a well mastered Blu-ray will be projected, then immediately go home and watch your personal Blu-ray of the same title on your properly calibrated home theater system and if you should appreciate at least a subtle difference in black levels and contrast between the two ‘showings’, I guarantee you that your dedicated Blu-ray home theater will have been the more correct exhibition device to display the Blu-ray content.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

DCI-compliant D-Cinema projectors are equipped with several color space settings of which a caring/conscientious projectionist cam automatically choose from (including Rec.709)...

As well as the option of loading your own custom 3D LUTs into the projector, if one is so savvy.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

LUTs...

What’s with zee LUT term/acronym?
Answer – Well, in the motion picture business it doesn’t stand for Local User Terminal (like in other fields of technology), but rather Look-UP Tables.

More importantly, what do zee LUTs do to imagery in general?
Answer – Makes it look different….http://www.hingsberg.com/index.php/2...2-lut-samples/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

no disrespect to Samsung supporters...

To show I’m a fair-minded fellow, scroll down to see zee Verdict -
http://www.trustedreviews.com/samsun...verdict_Page-3

[Penton-Man]

Hello, you temptress you! - http://hdguru.com/sony-to-slash-its-ultra-hdtv-prices/

[Geoff D]

Damn, and just after I've bought one. Bloody typical.

[Penton-Man]

Well, look at the bright side Geoff , at least you’re helping to save the consumer electronics division of a company….http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/x9-pr...1308083240.htm

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, look at the bright side Geoff , at least you’re helping to save the consumer electronics division of a company….http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/x9-pr...1308083240.htm

Great to hear. I love my Sony gear.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You missed your favorite sport… http://www.televisual.com/news-detai..._nid-2533.html

Just kidding with the sport . PeterTHX, I’m not sure if you have the capability at work, but in case you indeed do, the following material is all under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license, which means it can be viewed, distributed and reused freely for both private and commercial use.

Scroll down and open the file titled ‘liner-exr’ where you’ll find 4K linear Open EXR files decoded from the raw mxf output of a Sony F65 camera…
http://media.xiph.org/mango/

PeterTHX, a couple updates since the above ^ post from last Feb. (where I see I misspelled linear)……

#1. If you couldn’t utilize the 4K linear Open EXR files, not to worry, as the entire 4K movie is now on YouTube , or .mov encoded if one so prefers….http://mango.blender.org/production/...he-film-in-4k/

#2. MOST IMPORTANTLY, a new season of the Premier League began today (Arsenal lost of course) and league play this year is being broadcast on NBC Sports Network….rather than Fox.

#3. A seldom noted THX HD TV Set-Up guideline was recently linked here…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...es#post7988820

Don’t tell me I never think about you …..Tottenham and Chelsea play tomorrow and if you only have access to a portable device - http://stream.nbcsports.com/liveextra/

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Don’t tell me I never think about you …..Tottenham and Chelsea play tomorrow and if you only have access to a portable device - http://stream.nbcsports.com/liveextra/

Spurs are playing my beloved Palace right now, still 0-0 though it won't be for much longer...

[Penton-Man]

^ I love their cozy old school looking Park, but somehow 12Bet Stadium, just doesn’t cut it for me…. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ue-return.html Ah, the modern world of sport venues.

Anyway, from European way, Phillips to enter the 4K display selling fray with an award winning ‘green’ TV (please no jokes from former SXRD rear projection owners)….. http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/15/p...-uhd-ifa-2013/