Archived: Insiders Thread - Page 13 - Blu-ray Forum

GoldenRedux · 01-30-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partridge

...and just wait till a million PS3's arrive in Europe, just in time for Mr Bond on Blu-Ray.

Oh yes!

Blu-007 in 2007.

phloyd · 01-30-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTK

BD is outselling HD-DVD 3:1? If that trend holds AT ALL, I just cannot see how Universal doesn't get ready shift gears before long and we get this nonsense done with!

I think it will take 10:1 before someone fires the idiot who is losing the studio money. Remember that even though these ratios seem high, the volumes compared to the likes of DVD are still trivial.

That said, there is the 'egg on face' factor for following the wrong side which gets more and more eggier as the outcome becomes more inevitable...

GoldenRedux · 01-31-2007, 02:16 PM

I have a hardware question:

Is it absolutely necessary to have two decoders to do 'true' PiP, or can a player like the current Panasonic do PiP with a firmware upgrade?

paidgeek · 01-31-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

I have a hardware question:

Is it absolutely necessary to have two decoders to do 'true' PiP, or can a player like the current Panasonic do PiP with a firmware upgrade?

It is necessary. Both streams have to be decoded then composited with each other. The current players set-top players will not support this feature even with a firmware update as the hardware must be designed to support it from the beginning.

JBlacklow · 01-31-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidgeek

It is necessary. Both streams have to be decoded then composited with each other. The current players set-top players will not support this feature even with a firmware update as the hardware must be designed to support it from the beginning.

So is the PS3 fully capable and/or "Profile 1.1" compliant?

dobyblue · 01-31-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidgeek

It is necessary. Both streams have to be decoded then composited with each other. The current players set-top players will not support this feature even with a firmware update as the hardware must be designed to support it from the beginning.

Will this still allow non-compliant players to watch the main feature with the main audio if they don't care about the PIP and other interactive features?

Me I couldn't care less about interactivity, it's the lossless audio and main picture that I'll be watching nearly 100% of the time.

Based on Disney's 24/48 tracks I'd love to see flicks like Spiderman, Spiderman 2 and Ghost Rider come out with 24/48 PCM tracks.

dialog_gvf · 01-31-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidgeek

It is necessary. Both streams have to be decoded then composited with each other. The current players set-top players will not support this feature even with a firmware update as the hardware must be designed to support it from the beginning.

The Sammy uses the same decoder as the A1 which does support PiP. So, it should be compatible, shouldn't it? And don't several of the players use the Sigma Designs chip that can support PiP?

Do you mean to say none of the current players will support it, or are you saying they can't UNLESS the hardware is designed to support it from the beginning?

A question about the pseudo-PiP of The Descent. What is the nature of it? Is it a secondary video stream (affecting bandwidth) or is a secondary title (or seamless branching if not 100% pseudo-PiP) which only affects capacity?

Gary

kjack · 01-31-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

The Sammy uses the same decoder as the A1 which does support PiP. So, it should be compatible, shouldn't it?

The A1 has enough CPU power to decode the PiP in software.

Quote:

And don't several of the players use the Sigma Designs chip that can support PiP?

While PiP could be done on existing players using our chip via a firmware upgrade, there are two issues. First, player manufacturers prefer to fully support Profile 1.1 or later rather than just a piece of it. Second, Blu-ray PiP on our chip requires a specific revision or later be used; otherwise PiP would always be a rectangular window since luma key data would be ignored. Player manufacturers would rather have a fully-compliant implementation to avoid future problems.

Rio · 01-31-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjack

Second, Blu-ray PiP on our chip requires a specific revision or later be used; otherwise PiP would always be a rectangular window since luma key data would be ignored. Player manufacturers would rather have a fully-compliant implementation to avoid future problems.

Some report said that only SMP8634 Rev.C is supporting those functionalities, and that chip has not been mass produced yet, is it correct?

kjack · 01-31-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio

Some report said that only SMP8634 Rev.C is supporting those functionalities, and that chip has not been mass produced yet, is it correct?

Wow, you are tuned in.

Rev. C or later is needed for PiP luma key support and samples are available.

blitz6speed · 01-31-2007, 05:51 PM

Right, the HD-DVD players have a Pentium CPU + tons of ram ontop of the SOC setup just for the purpose of HDi. Thats why they can do what they can out of the gate. For a PC or PS3, it is do-able right now, but not sure for the stand alones.

phloyd · 01-31-2007, 05:54 PM

Actually I think it is good to hear that BD PiP will exceed HD DVD PiP in this sense.

While I am already dialed in with a player, I will eventually retire it in favour of one with all the gizmos eventually...

I like that BD is forward thinking - a technology for things to come - not just an HD and capacity add on to the DVD technology...

paidgeek · 01-31-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBlacklow

So is the PS3 fully capable and/or "Profile 1.1" compliant?

It is not profile 1.1 capable, at this time. I expect updates to achieve this later in the year.

paidgeek · 01-31-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Hi paid, would you be able to make a comment (without breaking any NDAs) on the recent SDK update to the PS3, mainly regarding the scaler, is it an actual scaler, or is it a SPE/RSX trick?

Sorry, but I have no information whatsover on the game developer SDK for PS3.

paidgeek · 01-31-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Will this still allow non-compliant players to watch the main feature with the main audio if they don't care about the PIP and other interactive features?

Me I couldn't care less about interactivity, it's the lossless audio and main picture that I'll be watching nearly 100% of the time.

Based on Disney's 24/48 tracks I'd love to see flicks like Spiderman, Spiderman 2 and Ghost Rider come out with 24/48 PCM tracks.

Yes, the current players should always be able to playback the principle audio and video on the disc, regardless of whether PiP data is present.

paidgeek · 01-31-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

The Sammy uses the same decoder as the A1 which does support PiP. So, it should be compatible, shouldn't it? And don't several of the players use the Sigma Designs chip that can support PiP?

Do you mean to say none of the current players will support it, or are you saying they can't UNLESS the hardware is designed to support it from the beginning?

A question about the pseudo-PiP of The Descent. What is the nature of it? Is it a secondary video stream (affecting bandwidth) or is a secondary title (or seamless branching if not 100% pseudo-PiP) which only affects capacity?

Gary

The Samsung decoder is based on a Broadcomm chip as far as I know. Even if that chip can decode dual streams, the current generation of players do not have the capability to support other essential functions to achieve PiP.

The Decent was created with a second complete title on the disc with the PiP image pre-composited.

JBlacklow · 01-31-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidgeek

It is not profile 1.1 capable, at this time. I expect updates to achieve this later in the year.

So, then the decoders are a hardware element that can not be updated, and is currently required for interactive elements such as those on "Crank" and "Descent". The BD-J profiles are a software element, but require somewhat powerful hardware to run. IIRC, the PS3 (and the Panasonic?) is not limited by the decoder requirement, but on the other hand is not currently Profile 1.1 compliant. The PS3, at least, can be updated for Profile 1.1 ability.

Do I have it all right?

paidgeek · 01-31-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBlacklow

So, then the decoders are a hardware element that can not be updated, and is currently required for interactive elements such as those on "Crank" and "Descent". The BD-J profiles are a software element, but require somewhat powerful hardware to run. IIRC, the PS3 (and the Panasonic?) is not limited by the decoder requirement, but on the other hand is not currently Profile 1.1 compliant. The PS3, at least, can be updated for Profile 1.1 ability.

Do I have it all right?

This looks correct...

Rio · 01-31-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjack

Wow, you are tuned in.

Rev. C or later is needed for PiP luma key support and samples are available.

This is the virtue of reading articles written in Japanese.

blitz6speed · 01-31-2007, 06:58 PM

Paidgeek

Seems to me that like The Guardian having only PS3/PC special features, studios realise the 1st gen hardware isnt going to do True PIP. But the PS3 and PC can, along with the 2nd gen BD hardware since they use the newer SOC chips. So would it be a stretch to say that Warner will release their IME style titles onto BD with PS3/PC only statements for PIP until the 2nd gen hardware is out that supports it? Seems right to me. And would be fine as long as the ONLY thing on the discs that doesnt work is the PIP for the older standalones.

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01-31-2007, 02:16 PM	#243
GoldenRedux Power Member Member since:Sep 2006 Blu-ray reviews:1	I have a hardware question: Is it absolutely necessary to have two decoders to do 'true' PiP, or can a player like the current Panasonic do PiP with a firmware upgrade?

01-31-2007, 05:51 PM	#251
blitz6speed Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Anaheim Hills, CA Trading Score:8	Right, the HD-DVD players have a Pentium CPU + tons of ram ontop of the SOC setup just for the purpose of HDi. Thats why they can do what they can out of the gate. For a PC or PS3, it is do-able right now, but not sure for the stand alones.

01-31-2007, 05:54 PM	#252
phloyd Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2003 Location:California Trading Score:5	Actually I think it is good to hear that BD PiP will exceed HD DVD PiP in this sense. While I am already dialed in with a player, I will eventually retire it in favour of one with all the gizmos eventually... I like that BD is forward thinking - a technology for things to come - not just an HD and capacity add on to the DVD technology...

01-31-2007, 06:58 PM	#260
blitz6speed Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Anaheim Hills, CA Trading Score:8	Paidgeek Seems to me that like The Guardian having only PS3/PC special features, studios realise the 1st gen hardware isnt going to do True PIP. But the PS3 and PC can, along with the 2nd gen BD hardware since they use the newer SOC chips. So would it be a stretch to say that Warner will release their IME style titles onto BD with PS3/PC only statements for PIP until the 2nd gen hardware is out that supports it? Seems right to me. And would be fine as long as the ONLY thing on the discs that doesnt work is the PIP for the older standalones.

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