Archived: Insiders Thread

[blitz6speed]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

AFAIK PowerDVD doesn't yet decode DTS-MA, only TrueHD.

Remember the lack of DSP power (which could do TrueHD) was the reason Panasonic couldn't add it to their players.

RAR takes more horsepower than ZIP even at similar compression ratios. It's metadata, downmixing, everything. The algorithms are vastly different. God knows what DTS came up with last second to compete with Dolby.

PowerDVD does decode the DTS HD-MA track. Try it with Ice Age 2. Select the DTS track, then go to the DTS HD-MA Track. The bitrate is just like a TrueHD Track and it outputs it properly. The bitrate moves around from 2mb/sec upwards of 4mb/sec and so on and so on. So for sure, it IS decoding it.

[blitz6speed]

Originally Posted by phloyd

Wisely or not, as B6 has noted, we have a slew of Fox titles with DTS-MA, so a solution to play them would be nice.

It is sad that it is not coming to the Panasonic, but them's the breaks.

I wonder if KJack can comment on the capacity to deal with DTS-MA in future or current SoC solutions from Sigma?

We really do need to whole suite of codecs going forward.

Weren't some Euro HD DVD releases DTS-MA? Or where they just DTS-HD? If MA, can any HD DVD player manage the audio?

Keith Jack showed the paperwork for the new SOC setup for future blu-ray players, and DTS HD-MA is listed and supported. So it is just a matter of time to see who adopts the new board from them, as they will be the first to support it.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I'm glad you are a happy customer. Few persons would want to open the cases on one of these units, but I can tell you they are a work of art inside and out...

Agree with that 100%. There are shots around, and the PS/3 is a masterpiece of engineering.

The cooling system alone is a stunning achievement.

Gary

[Josh]

Let's try to keep this to insider discussion only, please.

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by blitz6speed

I would say that chances are sky high that it will be possible. However, paidgeek works at Sony Pictures and not at SCEA, so even if he knew if it was coming, it isnt his place to say so. Remember, 7 Cell CPU's inside the PS3, decoding 48MB/Sec combined AVC/TrueHD takes up only 3.5 CPUs power. Theres still 3.5 CELLS being unused.

My concern is that decoding DTS-HD MA might not leave enough processing left to do both the main track and an HD PiP track. If there is the case, I would vote for sending the DTS-HD MA out HDMI 1.3 for receivers to decode, if that was possible, took less processing power than doing DTS-HD MA internally, and left enough to still add HD PiP support for the PS3.

--Darin

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by darinp2

My concern is that decoding DTS-HD MA might not leave enough processing left to do both the main track and an HD PiP track.

Except for 3D (which nobody has seriously talked about yet) what would be the use of decoding TWO HD tracks?

A normal PiP would be 640x480/24p or less, and so would be a rather low incremental processing requirement.

Out of curiosity, is there any comparison metrics out there of the decoding overhead of TrueHD v. DTS-HD MA?

Gary

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by darinp2

My concern is that decoding DTS-HD MA might not leave enough processing left to do both the main track and an HD PiP track. If there is the case, I would vote for sending the DTS-HD MA out HDMI 1.3 for receivers to decode, if that was possible, took less processing power than doing DTS-HD MA internally, and left enough to still add HD PiP support for the PS3.

--Darin

I am really, really imploring Sony to figure out a way to output DTS-HD MA bitstream through HDMI.

I know they're concentrating on mixing in the player using trueHD which is great, but for other studio's releases....you know?

If any SCEA person can be implored, I'd appreciate it!

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Except for 3D (which nobody has seriously talked about yet) what would be the use of decoding TWO HD tracks?

A normal PiP would be 640x480/24p or less, and so would be a rather low incremental processing requirement.

My understanding is that despite calling themselves "HD DVD", that group decided to make their PiP SD (which helped get PiP out sooner). While Blu-ray decided not to aim so low and allows HD PiP. A case where this matters is for something like the next Batman movie, they could encode the PiP as HD for Blu-ray and then let the user decide whether the behind the scenes stuff should be the big picture, or the movie. For looking at wires and how they do things, I would like the option of having the behind the scenes part be the big picture, and I don't want to go back to SD for that anymore than I want to go back to SD from HD for movies.

Of course, if Warner is still publishing on both formats when the next Batman movie gets released, the PiP will probably be SD because of the lowest common denominator factor.

Or for the short answer, the PiP can be HD too on Blu-ray (for players that support PiP) and I believe that Blu-ray players that support PiP will be required to decode HD PiP.

--Darin

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

The format limits the maximum bitrate to 40mbps for any coded video. If the bitrates bounce higher, it is caused by the algorithm used to measure them.

Are you sure about that one? My understanding is that both formats have buffers (I don't remember the sizes, but Blu-ray's is larger) that can be used by the codecs and allow very short spikes to higher bitrates. Might be limited to the Group-of-Pictures though.

--Darin

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by darinp2

My understanding is that despite calling themselves "HD DVD", that group decided to make their PiP SD (which helped get PiP out sooner). While Blu-ray decided not to aim so low and allows HD PiP. A case where this matters is for something like the next Batman movie, they could encode the PiP as HD for Blu-ray and then let the user decide whether the behind the scenes stuff should be the big picture, or the movie. For looking at wires and how they do things, I would like the option of having the behind the scenes part be the big picture, and I don't want to go back to SD for that anymore than I want to go back to SD from HD for movies.

OK, I see what you're getting at. Scale down the choice for the PiP. A true PiP (select a source for the main, and a source for the PiP). Good idea.

HD DVD doesn't have the bandwidth for two HD tracks, so really SD was all it could manage (4/6 Mbps max for non MPEG-2/MPEG-2 secondary). But, even for Blu-ray it would be challenging to get a two high PQ HD tracks.

Hey, we just found a use for VC-1.

[kjack]

Originally Posted by darinp2

My understanding is that despite calling themselves "HD DVD..

OTOH, the "HD" in HD DVD technically stands for "High Density", not "High Definition".

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by kjack

OTOH, the "HD" in HD DVD technically stands for "High Density", not "High Definition".

Thanks. I didn't realize that and hadn't really thought about it, but it makes sense given that the content doesn't have to be high definition.

Many people confuse upscaling DVD players or the JVC player that plays high definition content from DVDs with these "HD DVD" players, so I guess I could tell them that those are "High Definition DVD players", but these are "High Density DVD players".

--Darin

[GaS]

Hello Insiders.

Does anyone have any info they can share in regards to how close the BDA is to getting BD+ titles out the door? Getting ancy for some fox titles (and I am tired of reading the HD-DVD fud regarding this issue).

Thanks.

[movies3]

Hello Insiders, wondering if you have heard anything about the releases of the Harry Potter movies coming to Blu-ray? Since the 5th movies comes out this summer just wondering if they were going to do a release like they did with POTC. Thanks

[tindizzle]

Hi paidgeek,

Is Sony planning to release any movies for the last 2 weeks of June? Thank you!

[WriteSimply]

(Another two dollars in the coffer)

paidgeek, somebody on AVSF posted that you said/hinted/implied that SPHE will soon release BDs with x.v.Color encoded. Is this true?

What impact would that make in terms of overal video performance as well as data capacity?


fuad

[Zinn]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

(Another two dollars in the coffer)

paidgeek, somebody on AVSF posted that you said/hinted/implied that SPHE will soon release BDs with x.v.Color encoded. Is this true?

What impact would that make in terms of overal video performance as well as data capacity?


fuad

x.v.YCC (x.v.Color/x.v.Colour) is not in the BD spec so I don't think so. It works on AVCHD discs thou.

[gandley]

I posted that but it was a IIRC, ie in not sure if it was the case.

[tindizzle]

Paidgeek,

The trailer for Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon on the Curse of the Golden Flower disc is very soft. Is this just a bad trailer or is the master soft also? Any hints on when it is going to be released?

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I am really, really imploring Sony to figure out a way to output DTS-HD MA bitstream through HDMI.

I know they're concentrating on mixing in the player using trueHD which is great, but for other studio's releases....you know?

If any SCEA person can be implored, I'd appreciate it!

I would like to better understand your need here. What is the shortcoming of decoding in the player and outputting over HDMI as LPCM?