Archived: Insiders Thread

[WriteSimply]

Josh, bear with me.

Originally Posted by tvted

I think my words might not have been clear. I did not mean that the hardware would not be capable - that is engineering. I meant that it seems like it will be hardware "choice" - as my question implied i.e. a clarification of whether HD streams are mandatory. In other words it might be that a BD manufacturer might be able to utilize a decoder that is only SD capable. The disk of course would have to query the player as to its capabilities - but until someone clarifies what is mandatory then this is all spec.

Amir has succeeded in FUDing if this discussion on PiP continues.

What he did was cloud the issue of mandatory and optional. It is MANDATORY for Profile 1.1 hardware to support PiP from 480p to 1080p. Hence the phrase "up to 1080p".

It is OPTIONAL for Profile 1.1 SOFTWARE to support PiP stream at 1080p. We'd like them to but it's not mandatory. Otherwise, materials originally recorded in 480p or 8mm will have to be blown up to 1080p quality.

If PiP is mandatory at minimum 480p but optional at 720p and 1080p, then the engineers that made the spec really screwed up. The baseline is 480p and studios would only do 480p stream since that covers all players. Anything more would show up nothing. In fact, IME specs is exactly like that. 480p IME on hardware is mandatory but the 1080p IME on hardware is optional.

That's why IME is 480p only and according to Amir in one of his many FUD posts, it's good enough. After all, people have no complaints about their DVDs upconverted.

It is enough for me that it seems there is no limitation on the stream capability.

End caps : 480p and 1080p.

To the studio heads that read this: 720p PiP would be a good start. But don't push the bandwith limit. If the extras are not worthy of 1080p, like talking heads, 720p is good enough especially if the secondary video stream creates quality issues.


fuad

[FourToedStatue]

Originally Posted by DSET

I'm a BIg BBIIIG comic book nut

Im going to sell my HDDVD player based on that you presume BB will be coming out on Blu ray

should i?
is youre rumor or inside info strong??? even if its somewhat strong I will sell this

because I know its gonna be worth nothing in less than a year

been doing some research
Scarface Gladiator
only two biggies universal has
gladiator might make me keep my 200$ 360player but they havent even announced it

Doby was right about Superman(I wish warner would release the PCM version to retailers already) and Departed. I say he trust him

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Doby was right about Superman(I wish warner would release the PCM version to retailers already) and Departed. I say he trust him

I also let everyone know back in December that Blood Diamond would have PCM about two months before the specs were revealed by ANYONE else.

A few people I trusted not to mention it in the forums were also privvy to the Superman Returns PCM info.

Batman Begins will definitely be out on Blu-ray in Q4/07 and will have lossless audio, likely PCM and TrueHD.

I am also expecting T3 to come out this year as well. Warner are trying their best to get Matrix out on Blu before the holiday season, but will only do that one if they can get all the PIP and IME feature implemented.

So yes DSET - Batman Begins will be on Blu-ray in time for Christmas.

[Jack Torrance]

Originally Posted by DSET

I'm a BIg BBIIIG comic book nut

Im going to sell my HDDVD player based on that you presume BB will be coming out on Blu ray

should i?
is youre rumor or inside info strong??? even if its somewhat strong I will sell this

because I know its gonna be worth nothing in less than a year

been doing some research
Scarface Gladiator
only two biggies universal has
gladiator might make me keep my 200$ 360player but they havent even announced it

Because Gladiator was produced by Dreamworks (Universal basically the distributor), the rights now reside with Paramount. And they release on blu-ray...

[BTBuck1]

Paidgeek,

The ps3 seems to be the only player that can handle the Pirates movies menu's the way they are designed to be presented/used. Other players, Including Sony's 2nd gen player stumble through them and it is a very akward experience, especially for someone (like my mom) who is already stumbling through this stuff.

My question is,

A) are they going to fix this with firmware?

B) if no, were these films just catered toward the ps3 audience to show off
the technology, and going forward they will make sure future titles work correctly on all players? I understand it's not your studio...but maybe you've heard something.

Also,

Curious if more Sony titles will contain TrueHD and if so you know of some you can hint to, Spidey trilogy for example?

And wether or not they will FW update the bdps300 to decode TrueHD since it is apparently capable from a hardware standpoint.

Tnaks a bunch!

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Batman Begins will definitely be out on Blu-ray in Q4/07 and will have lossless audio, likely PCM and TrueHD.

I am also expecting T3 to come out this year as well. Warner are trying their best to get Matrix out on Blu before the holiday season, but will only do that one if they can get all the PIP and IME feature implemented.

Amazing. Warner is going to help decimate HD DVD in Q4.

Gary

[DSET]

Thanks a bunch you guys
consider my HDDVD add on plus 7 movies sold

gonna watch Batman begins 3 more times in the next week and then sell it

especially that now I've heard that Gladiator is possible on Blu-ray
my mind is set

spend about 400-500 on the HD crap
prolly only gonna get back like 2 or 3 if I'm lucky
stupid bastids they should have done a better job

one last question
theres no possibility of LOTR being exclusive to HDDVD right?
what is the deal with New line are they mutual?

[Blu-dock Saint]

Originally Posted by DSET

Thanks a bunch you guys
consider my HDDVD add on plus 7 movies sold

gonna watch Batman begins 3 more times in the next week and then sell it

especially that now I've heard that Gladiator is possible on Blu-ray
my mind is set

spend about 400-500 on the HD crap
prolly only gonna get back like 2 or 3 if I'm lucky
stupid bastids they should have done a better job

one last question
theres no possibility of LOTR being exclusive to HDDVD right?
what is the deal with New line are they mutual?

New Line is neutral so no worries about LOTR, it'll be on Blu one day, whenever they decide to actually announce the title coming out in hi def

[DSET]

Wiiiiiicccckked

thanks to all for you're help.

the only BiG movies coming from universal I could find were:
American Gangster
Kingdom (which can go either way)
Bourne Ultimatum which is a decent list but none of these have amazing visuals, so will be fine to own on DVD.
the new Incredible Hulk is all they have IMO. being into comics I've heard amazing things that this movie is going to revamp from the previous hulk movie, but at the same time is a sequal . So people are saying its gonna be pretty good
that being said
even if Incredible Hulk is THAt good and it has amazing visuals etc etc. The Hulk vs every other comic book movie?, absolutely no reason for me to keep this player if Batman comes out on BD.
I heard V for Vendetta is coming to BD soon aswell, whats the story on that one?.
IMO HD is dead for comic book fans, BD has spidey exclusive and ATM Xmen.

Hd has Heroes and Matrix. heroes we see on Tv in HD and not many people wanna see a TV show more than once.
The Matrix is good but not enough and is warner so I'm guessing gonna port over with the rest of these. HD should bust their asses off and get Universal to get Scarface and Jurrassic Park out if they wanna shift some tides.

[thebluemax]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I also let everyone know back in December that Blood Diamond would have PCM about two months before the specs were revealed by ANYONE else.

A few people I trusted not to mention it in the forums were also privvy to the Superman Returns PCM info.

Batman Begins will definitely be out on Blu-ray in Q4/07 and will have lossless audio, likely PCM and TrueHD.

I am also expecting T3 to come out this year as well. Warner are trying their best to get Matrix out on Blu before the holiday season, but will only do that one if they can get all the PIP and IME feature implemented.

So yes DSET - Batman Begins will be on Blu-ray in time for Christmas.

How about the other Warner Titles that have been released on hh-dvd and not BLU-RAY yet? "V for Ven...", "Casablanca" etc etc?????

[dazbug]

2 more quick ones-

1.So T3 will have either TrueHD or PCM? How cool will that be

2.Any word on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (j. Depp version)? will it be this year?

Keep up the good work guys, from Aus

[DaViD Boulet]

I want both versions of Willy Wonka on BD... with lossless audio!!!

[GoldenRedux]

So to settle the PiP question once and for all, I will ask of Paidgeek a blunt question, because everybody else seems to asking these vague questions, is it mandatory for all Profile 1.1 hardware to be able to play a secondary video stream that is full frame rate at 1080p?

I'm not asking whether or not every secondary stream has to be full frame rate 1080p, obviously.

[Fozziwig]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

So to settle the PiP question once and for all, I will ask of Paidgeek a blunt question, because everybody else seems to asking these vague questions, is it mandatory for all Profile 1.1 hardware to be able to play a secondary video stream that is full frame rate at 1080p?

I'm not asking whether or not every secondary stream has to be full frame rate 1080p, obviously.

Thanks for doing that. I thought about asking something like:

"If I wanted to start manufacturing a Blu-ray player and have it fully profile 1.1 compliant would I have to include a 1080p capable secondary video stream OR (if I wanted to save money) would I have lower resolution options available for the secondary video stream?"

But your question should get the same definitive answer. I'm certain of the answer but it would be nice to have it published categorically once and for all to keep the FUD brigade quiet.

I think Paidgeek inadvertently confused things by saying:

It was pointed out to me that I missed an "optional" statement for HD PiP in one of the annexes of the format books. Specifically, this means that SD PiP is mandatory, HD PiP is optional.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

So to settle the PiP question once and for all, I will ask of Paidgeek a blunt question, because everybody else seems to asking these vague questions, is it mandatory for all Profile 1.1 hardware to be able to play a secondary video stream that is full frame rate at 1080p?

I'm not asking whether or not every secondary stream has to be full frame rate 1080p, obviously.

No, I was mistaken for not checking the annex where the mandatory functions are identified. It is mandatory to do SD and optional to do HD.

[Fozziwig]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

No, I was mistaken for not checking the annex where the mandatory functions are identified. It is mandatory to do SD and optional to do HD.

Could you answer this one anyway, thanks.

"If I wanted to start manufacturing a Blu-ray player and have it fully profile 1.1 compliant would I have to include a 1080p capable secondary video stream OR (if I wanted to save money) would I have lower resolution options available for the secondary video stream?"

I thought I knew the answer but now I'm not so sure..

Edit. Just found this:

Originally Posted by Paidgeek
It is not required that the hardware be able to decode an HD secondary video stream. If it can, that information is available in a register and the software can be smart about what options it presents in the menus or attempts to display. If the authoring does not check the register, the player will verify if it can play the stream, and if it cannot, it will not change to the secondary stream.

If that is correct then there will be a lot of cheaper Blu-ray player that only offer 480p PIP. This will mean that as a software producer I would have to consider whether to bother with a 1080p PIP when there are many players that will end up only showing a 480p down-conversion.

My understanding was that the secondary video stream on ALL profile 1.1 players would have to offer 1080p capability. This would mean that, finally, with profile 1.1 every Blu-ray customer would enjoy Blu-ray software on a level playing field and get the full benefits of all the features.

If this is now not the case then in my view the BDA are making a mistake and we'll never hear the end of it from the HD DVD crowd (despite the fact that their PIP implementation is worse!)

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

No, I was mistaken for not checking the annex where the mandatory functions are identified. It is mandatory to do SD and optional to do HD.

That means I'm wrong too!

How embarassing. Is it too late to change the Profile 1.1 specs to include mandatory PiP decoding from SD to HD? One can only hope, as the current spec would ensure that the studios only include SD PiP streams on Profile 1.1 releases.


fuad

[gandley]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

No, I was mistaken for not checking the annex where the mandatory functions are identified. It is mandatory to do SD and optional to do HD.

so to be clear.

the 'hardware' for a secondary decoder on a BD players must decode BD PIP as SD.
but that same 'hardware' does not have to decode HD PIP as its a hardware 'option'.
so really were saying one type of decoder will only do SD pip and another will do SD and HD if the vendor chooses to use that soc based chipset.

or are we saying, the secondary encoder can be used for both SD and HD PIP, but it up to the studios what they use. because a hardware difference pretty much means SD will be the norm and not HD


SO, do the new SOC chips from say Sigma designs allow for HD pip?

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

No, I was mistaken for not checking the annex where the mandatory functions are identified. It is mandatory to do SD and optional to do HD.

Thanks for the response. So, I guess this settles it. This is very disappointing, to say the least. All along we Blu-ray supporters thought for sure that when we finally got PiP that we would have superior PiP, but now, it's just the same old PiP. Oh, well. I don't really care for PiP anyway, but I sure was looking forward to being able to rub it in.

[gandley]

if thats the case its pretty dumb. now we have to figure out which players will do the PIP in HD and which do the pip in Sd.

honestly this whole profile issue has been a disaster for BD. its the only reason people hold off buying stanalones, and now it seems that wont end the confusion even with profile 1.1

yeah very dissapointing. looks like little incentive for studos to do HD PIP if they know half there audience will never see it.

missed opportunity.